CNN is claiming that CDC statistics show guns kill more children than cars

[ColoradoMinuteMan]

I agree with much of what you have stated but disagree with the premise that gun owners have an obligation for solving the school shooting issue that is any greater than any other adult member of society. I carry what I need to stop a school shooting. As most of us who are paying attention realize, there are fewer guns per capita in schools than probably there ever has been in history. Yet there are more people killed with guns per capita than in any time in history. This is not a gun problem, this is a hearts and minds problem. The hearts and minds of school children are being ruined, in many cases, by the very system of beliefs that much of the education system.

Note: Data shows the top five "injury mechanism and all other leading causes of death" as collected by the CDC Wonder database, as of 2021.

So when Automobile accidents deaths decrease do to better safety equipment. And cancer deaths decrease do to better science it will reduce the percentage of deaths for those causes. When that happens the percentage of children that die do to other mechanisms will increases. It necessarily doesn't mean that the number of deaths increased by the mechanism. Just the percentage.

If I child dies do to suicide by firearm they died by a firearm. If they die by suicide from drug overdose they die by drugs.

It's not the data that is bad it is how the data is interpreted and/or presented.

My question is, how as a group of gun owners are we going to stop these school shootings?

 

[CapnMac]

And now there are efforts in Congress to throw more money at the CDC to study guns.

Well, the CDC, for all their efforts to paint the picture as badly as possible consistently fail to issue up the "slam-dunk" response desired by politicians.
So, they throw money at them trying to get a different result.

Are there any major cities that aren't run by Democrats?

San Diego is usually touted, for having a nominally-Republican Mayor. Just the mayor.

My question is, how as a group of gun owners are we going to stop these school shootings?

Well, "we" probably can't. What "we" need is for politicians to stop seeing this as some sort of goad to rally up the voting base.

In reality this is not a "guns" issue (300 million arms and a billion round of ammo, it would be obvious); this is a issue of "craziness."

And, "crazy" has two, very critical aspects. For one, the major one, is the stigma put upon mental health issues. Which comes from lumping all "mental health issues" into one big black bag as if they are all equal. Which leads to the second issue, functionally, there's two kinds of crazy: Manageable and Incurable. Stigmatizing people with treatable conditions does not help them get therapy. And, without therapy, those conditions seldom "get better." It would be an ideal to identify and isolate the incurable, for being safer for both them and us.

The problem being that the actual practice of mental heath is a bit of a soup sandwich--they cannot agree on their own standards, even after writing them.

 

[bearcreek]

San Diego is usually touted, for having a nominally-Republican Mayor. Just the mayor.

The current mayor of San Diego is Todd Gloria, a lifelong Democrat.

 

[tark]

The CDC is a political arm of the Democratic party. I pay them no heed.

 

[Beck]

Just a thought... one of my sons joined the Navy right out of high school as a corpsman embedded with the Marines. According to the CDC I guess he was a child soldier. 6' 2" 220 pounds of solid muscle child.

^^^ When the average person hears the word "child" in a statistic they naturally think of little kids. That's the perception the CDC wants people to have. So they include an age range that's as broad as possible.

 

[buck460XVR]

The solution is cultural, not governmental, which means it's going to take a really long time to fix and require some major changes in how people live their lives and raise children.

^^^This.

As I said in another thread, it's the culture in America, that is behind not only school shootings, but other mass shootings, gang wars and other violence using firearms. It's not just our gun culture, but our culture of hate and violence. We can't even have a simple Presidential election, or a court verdict without some form of violent assembly that ends up with deaths and mass destruction. Folks fear a disease that has a Asian name and they want to kill Asians. Many of our most popular movies are scene after scene of violence with brains and other body parts being splattered all over the screen. The video games most kids play growing up are "First Person Shooter" games, which again are one killing after another, shown graphically. Seems like not only cannot folks get along, but they don't want to. Part of this, is because we live in a society where we don't have to depend on others anymore. Those that do, feel they are deserving of it and don't appreciate the help. This forum is a good example. Everytime a serious controversial discussion comes up. the threat is closed because folks start bashing ans personnel attacks. No respect for others and their opinions. Out of one side of their mouth they claim "The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun!". But state teachers and other school staff should be armed and they cry "but then the teachers will go crazy and kill all the kids!" Let me ask, how many school shootings have been done by teachers, even tho they have access to every room in their building and can walk in with anything they want under their arms? They know the hold and lockdown procedures and where every camera is. Then there is the cry, "it's not guns, it's a mental health issue!". While I agree, when the subject of any kind of Red Flag laws come up, they scream it's a violation of their 2nd Amendment rights.

Again, I don't know the simple solution. No one does. If they did, it would be done. But doing nothing isn't getting it done either. As responsible gun owners, we need to realize the risk that comes with the Gun Culture we have here in this country. There may not be an answer or a solution other than defense, if we want to keep things the way it is, and it seems that is the direction we are going.

 

[toivo]

The main misrepresentation, IMO, is the use of the word "children." Their data population is up to and including 18 years of age. While young teens may be thought of as still children, as a culture we tend to draw the line at puberty. You can use the term "teens" or "young adults," but most people don't think of 16-to-18-year-olds as "children."

 

[TomJ]

^^^This.

As I said in another thread, it's the culture in America, that is behind not only school shootings, but other mass shootings, gang wars and other violence using firearms. It's not just our gun culture, but our culture of hate and violence. We can't even have a simple Presidential election, or a court verdict without some form of violent assembly that ends up with deaths and mass destruction. Folks fear a disease that has a Asian name and they want to kill Asians. Many of our most popular movies are scene after scene of violence with brains and other body parts being splattered all over the screen. The video games most kids play growing up are "First Person Shooter" games, which again are one killing after another, shown graphically. Seems like not only cannot folks get along, but they don't want to. Part of this, is because we live in a society where we don't have to depend on others anymore. Those that do, feel they are deserving of it and don't appreciate the help. This forum is a good example. Everytime a serious controversial discussion comes up. the threat is closed because folks start bashing ans personnel attacks. No respect for others and their opinions. Out of one side of their mouth they claim "The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun!". But state teachers and other school staff should be armed and they cry "but then the teachers will go crazy and kill all the kids!" Let me ask, how many school shootings have been done by teachers, even tho they have access to every room in their building and can walk in with anything they want under their arms? They know the hold and lockdown procedures and where every camera is. Then there is the cry, "it's not guns, it's a mental health issue!". While I agree, when the subject of any kind of Red Flag laws come up, they scream it's a violation of their 2nd Amendment rights.

Again, I don't know the simple solution. No one does. If they did, it would be done. But doing nothing isn't getting it done either. As responsible gun owners, we need to realize the risk that comes with the Gun Culture we have here in this country. There may not be an answer or a solution other than defense, if we want to keep things the way it is, and it seems that is the direction we are going.

I agree with much of this, but haven't heard anyone claim that armed teachers will kill their students. Maybe someone said it and I'm not aware of it. In regards to red flag laws, speaking for myself it's not red flags laws I'm concerned about but the abuse of them, especially when there's no due process and a gun owner can be accused falsely of something without the opportunity to respond prior to losing his or her 2A rights. I wish there was a way to hold accountable family members who knew a person was likely to carry out a mass shooting but did not contact law enforcement without this process being abused.

 

[Thomasss]

One of the things we frequently hear from mass shooters is that they bypass hard targets and go towards targets with little to no security. Secondly we often hear that someone knew the shooter was planning something, but remained silent as was the case with the shooting in Nashville.

What I really don't know is why was the school gun free zones signs ever initiated? Did somebody really think putting up a sign would deter a person from shooting up a school. If that was such a great idea, why didn't it start with putting up signs in banks or jewelry stores, etc.?

 

[Thomasss]

I wish there was a way to hold accountable family members who knew a person was likely to carry out a mass shooting but did not contact law enforcement without this process being abused.

Several years ago, an eye witness told police the suspect was a good kid and didn't have a gun during the police shooting. Later police found the pistol with the guy's finger prints all over it. They later charged the witness with filing a false statement to police, which in Wisconsin has a penalty of up to three years in prison. The witness happened to be relative. I should research that one and find out what happened to that witness.

 

[Ks5shooter]

Fentanyl Is the No. 1 cause of death for those 18 through 45 in the US.
And last year 2,231 adolescents (10-19) died of fentanyl…a 110% increase from the year before.
Funny how the CNN article never mentions the drug or where it’s coming from.

And that number will go up with Fentanyl soon to be available on the store shelves." Im good I have Fentanyl"...but if you are overdosing you will not realize to use it.Sooo being the enabler it is,you will likely die. All the big cities that have the strictist gun laws/bans have the highest gun violence/ deaths.So just like anything the government touches it will be a disaster. So now the norm is to blame inanimate objects or dont recognize the problen because you cant fix it.

 

[gunmechanic]

Gangs, drugs ,border wide open an a administration hell bent on our disarmament and much worse.I do not even recognize this country any more and the worse thing is i have no idea how to fix it and this mess is effecting me my family friends church my business etc.

 

[Mark_Mark]

CDC… is a bureaucratic weapon ! I don’t believe a word they say!

and when you don’t trust government departments to do their job! well heck

 

[buck460XVR]

I agree with much of this, but haven't heard anyone claim that armed teachers will kill their students. Maybe someone said it and I'm not aware of it.

.....The following is a statement made on another thread that has since been closed.

What happens when a teacher goes off the deep end and shoots up their students?

What are the odds, eh?

What I really don't know is why was the school gun free zones signs ever initiated? Did somebody really think putting up a sign would deter a person from shooting up a school.

Your statement is the thought of many, but, it should be obvious it isn't the reason the signs are up. It is to inform folks that are ignorant. No different that the signs that say,

There shall be no smoking or other use of tobacco products including electronic cigarettes in school buildings, on school grounds, in school-owned vehicles and at school-sponsored activities at any time by any one.

It's surprising that so many folks don't understand the full extent of either of these signs. In Wisconsin, those zones are defined as to be the premises of a school or the area within 1,000 feet of the school premises. That's like 3 average city blocks. There are exceptions to this, such as on private property within that 1000', CWC license holders can have a gun in their possession, but not directly in or on school property and guns can be transported while unloaded and cased and others.

 

[wayneinFL]

.....The following is a statement made on another thread that has since been closed.



What are the odds, eh?




Your statement is the thought of many, but, it should be obvious it isn't the reason the signs are up. It is to inform folks that are ignorant. No different that the signs that say,



It's surprising that so many folks don't understand the full extent of either of these signs. In Wisconsin, those zones are defined as to be the premises of a school or the area within 1,000 feet of the school premises. That's like 3 average city blocks. There are exceptions to this, such as on private property within that 1000', CWC license holders can have a gun in their possession, but not directly in or on school property and guns can be transported while unloaded and cased and others.

The gun free school zones act...

Our local high school spent tens (hundreds?) of thousands of dollars hardening the school against terrorists. There are a lot of fences and gates.
When they have an event, it's really confusing getting around. But there are hundreds of people driving onto the campus every day.

While my two youngest sons were there, a girl was caught bringing a gun onto campus. Someone saw here slide a case over while she was getting something out of the trunk. Sheriff's office was called. Turns out the student's car had broken down and she had borrowed her mom's car- didn't know the gun was in the trunk.

None of the hardening did anything to keep a gun from getting on campus. No different than in the 80s when one of my friends showed up with guns in the car after a weekend range trip. (Same except there was some select fire stuff. And none of us called the cops. Because why would we?)

And what did the school zone law do? It didn't stop the girl from getting on campus. It could have gotten here charged with a crime. It could get anyone driving by the school with a pistol in the glovebox charged with a crime. If someone cane into the campus and shot someone it would get them a few years added to a life sentence or death sentence.

 

[damyankee425]

Remember the CDC about 3 years ago. ? How they inflate numbers .

 

[Mark_Mark]

Remember the CDC about 3 years ago. ? How they inflate numbers .

yeah!!!

 

[toivo]

And that number will go up with Fentanyl soon to be available on the store shelves." Im good I have Fentanyl"...but if you are overdosing you will not realize to use it.

Did you mean Narcan? Fentanyl is the drug and Narcan is the antidote.

 

[Ignition Override]

Poor CNN, with continually low ratings.

Desperation, in dire straits, with zero journalistic integrity, unless they hired a journalist who is allowed to investigate And report on such.

 

[bearcreek]

And that number will go up with Fentanyl soon to be available on the store shelves." Im good I have Fentanyl"...but if you are overdosing you will not realize to use it.Sooo being the enabler it is,you will likely die.

Are you talking about Narcan? Fentanyl doesn't help with overdoses of anything.

 

[herrwalther]

CDC count "kids" up to age 25 in some studies I have seen. Most gang banger thugs are between the ages of 16 and 25. So yes, using those numbers guns do kill a lot of "kids"

But for the under 18 bracket, swimming pools are statistically more dangerous than guns.

 

[buck460XVR]

And what did the school zone law do? It didn't stop the girl from getting on campus. It could have gotten here charged with a crime. It could get anyone driving by the school with a pistol in the glovebox charged with a crime. If someone cane into the campus and shot someone it would get them a few years added to a life sentence or death sentence.

The signs are no different than any other. They are to inform those that want to obey the law. Similar to Speed limit signs. Does everyone follow them? No, but they know what the Speed limit is. Ain't a sign or any law out there that can ensure against someone who wants to break the law. That's what enforcement is for. Even the Bill of Rights is just writing on paper unless it's enforced.

But the protections in the Bill of Rights—forbidding Congress from abridging free speech, for example, or conducting unreasonable searches and seizures—were largely ignored by the courts for the first 100 years after the Bill of Rights was ratified in 1791. Like the preamble to the Declaration, the Bill of Rights was largely a promissory note. It wasn’t until the 20th century, when the Supreme Court began vigorously to apply the Bill of Rights against the states, that the document became the centerpiece of contemporary struggles over liberty and equality.

 

[MachIVshooter]

As mentioned, it's an issue with the misleading representation, not the actual figures.

The image it's meant to create in people's minds is innocent elementary school age kids being slaughtered at school by a deranged gunman.

The reality is that 70% of firearm deaths in this country are suicide, and most of the "child firearm homicide figures" are gang related and/or involve "victim" criminal activities by "kids" 14 & older. It also includes justifiable self defense or law enforcement shootings, not just murder.

Homicide by any mechanism (last time I checked) isn't even top 20 for cause of death in actual children, those aged preschool through 12,13.

But people typically won't bother to do independent research and take an objective approach, so the deliberate misrepresentation is an effective campaign.

 

[wayneinFL]

The signs are no different than any other. They are to inform those that want to obey the law. Similar to Speed limit signs. Does everyone follow them? No, but they know what the Speed limit is. Ain't a sign or any law out there that can ensure against someone who wants to break the law. That's what enforcement is for. Even the Bill of Rights is just writing on paper unless it's enforced.

Enforcement? Like speeding? This isn't 2 tons of steel and glass barreling down a public highway in the open where everybody can see it. This is something that will fit in a lunchbox.

Are you going to stop every car within 3 blocks of a school and search it? Every place where a gun can fit? Pull over every electrician and plumber and open all their toolboxes?

Or just enforce it on the campuses? There are probably 1200 students, plus faculty. Probably 400 cars at our local campus. That doesn't count deliveries, contractors, and service people. I don't know that we have enough cops on duty in the county to search everything- if all they did was work to prevent the school shooting that has a .000001% chance of occurring. And there are three other high schools.

That's what you would have to do to get it to where you have a feel good law that determined people will get through.

The law is absolutely useless. The only value it has is you could wreck and few honest people's lives when they make a mistake to make an example for the rest of the honest people. So good people won't break the law. So the shop teacher won't "accidentally" have a gun when something happens.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Children = under 21 gang members

Yep, when they push it up to 21 which is well into adulthood, it looks bad. They ignore there are gangs who like to chute each other up.

The closer we approach economic collapse, the more desperate the globalists become fo striking the 2A. After all, a police state is incompatible with an armed populace.