(CO) Hunter says he killed cougar in self-defense

[Drizzt]

Hunter says he killed cougar in self-defense

By By MARIJA B. VADER The Daily Sentinel

Monday, September 19, 2005

RIFLE — A Denver-area deer hunter shot and killed a mountain lion in self-defense after it brazenly threatened to attack him Friday evening, officials said.

The hunter, who was not identified, first attempted to scare the animal off by throwing items and yelling at it, said Division of Wildlife spokesman Randy Hampton. But when those actions didn’t faze the approaching cougar, the man shot it with his muzzleloader.

“It was snarling, hissing at him,” Hampton said. “He threw some stuff at it and couldn’t scare it off.”

The man had been hunting deer with his muzzleloader in a ground blind, at a stationary location when the cat “came up on him,” Hampton said.

After he shot the mountain lion, the hunter found the animal dead beneath some bushes.

The incident took place between 12 and 15 miles north of Rifle on Parker Ridge in Garfield County.

The hunter immediately notified the Division of Wildlife, and District Wildlife Manager Brian Gray investigated Saturday morning.

The hunter was not cited, Hampton said.

“He was certainly within his right to defend himself,” Hampton said.

The hunter “was a little shaken up — that a lion had rushed him,” Hampton said.

Wildlife officials found the carcass where the hunter indicated it would be.

They determined the cat to be 2 to 3 years old.

Hampton said officials do not know why the animal charged the hunter.

“What we suspect is it’s a juvenile cat and may have been curious and didn’t know better,” Hampton said.

“Everything at the scene was consistent with what he told us,” Hampton said. “He had done everything right by reporting it to us.”

Mountain lion sightings are rare. Rarer still are incidents involving a charging cat, Hampton said.

“Mountain lions are typically very reclusive and won’t approach humans, so we don’t see a lot of problems,” Hampton said.

“Mountain lions in their nature will shy away from people.”

Still, the danger exists.

“They’re certainly capable of injuring and killing someone.”

http://www.gjsentinel.com/hp/content/news/stories/2005/09/19/9_19_Mt__Lion_WWW.html

so, are mountain lions a protected species in Colorado?

 

[Travis McGee]

After a few generations without hunting pressure, mountain lions just see humans as slow easy prey.

They used to be reclusive...when humans were chasing them with guns.

 

[sumpnz]

so, are mountain lions a protected species in Colorado?

Don't know if they're "protected" but I'd guess that without a valid hunting tag from DoW he'd be in hot water for killing it without a legitimate claim of self-defense.

Sounds like the hunter did everything he was supposed to do. Tried to scare it off, and then only shot it when it continued to advance. Then he notified DoW right away.

Hopefully the incident won't scare him off from hunting in the future.

 

[svtruth]

Grace under pressure

An advancing puma and a muzzle loader...
Bet he's glad for every round he fired at the range.

 

[Erich]

I wonder how many of these incidents get the "SSS" treatment . . . probably a lot more than are actually reported as legitimate self defense.

 

[Trebor]

"It's coming right at us!"

 

[TallPine]

Hampton said officials do not know why the animal charged the hunter.

Probably for the same reason a kitty chases a mouse ....

 

[NHBB]

I was under the impression that if one of these cats wants you, they don't exactly stand their in a standoff... they want to eat and would rush you without a moments notice. maybe it was rabid? I never encountered one before, but I figure if I did I would be scared stiff and resort to his final solution instead of escalating force with the cat... whats to say he runs off, just to continue stalking from a distance and gets at you when you least expect it thinking him to be long gone?

 

[Standing Wolf]

When every paragraph of an "article" consists of a single sentence, you can be sure the "author" would be happier going back to flipping hamburgers.

 

[Joejojoba111]

"After a few generations without hunting pressure, mountain lions just see humans as slow easy prey."

People say that a lot, or type it, but I don't buy it. And I don't understand why they believe it, either. It doesn't make sense.

Highways kill animals, for umpteen generations. Yet animals keep coming back. Not enough traffic pressure or something, I guess.

 

[Art Eatman]

Children, and adults who are seated or are bending over, appear to be the proper size for a mountain lion to consider as supper. Another problem can and has been a person's proximity to the recent kill of a lion, with the lion then acting to protect the carcass.

If you stand up and yell and throw sticks or rocks, the more common response is for the lion to leave. Trouble is, some lions don't read my book about lion behavior.

Art

 

[realmswalker]

SV truth thats exactly what I was thinking, guess he was of the sniper train of thought, except it was modified from "one shot, one kill" to "Holy crap, I only got one shot and I hope it kills"

 

[MachIVshooter]

We have a few cat incidents here per decade, usually it is a case of a jogger or hiker coming around the corner in the opposite direction. There have, however, been a few instances of cats stalking people-especially children playing near creeks. While the Colorado wilderness is not what I would consider dangerous for the most part, it would still be wise to pack a handgun or large knife in cat terrirtory-especially for women. The few stalkings of adults have usually been small statured females that the cougar saw as easy prey. A grown male cat can exceed 200 pounds and is capable of taking down elk. People are no match in hand to paw combat. Just think how bad your 10 pound house cat can tear you up.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

After a few generations without hunting pressure, mountain lions just see humans as slow easy prey.

Biologically, we are. Unlike many of our counterparts in the wild, we don't have much in the way of fur or thick hide to protect us. So, we are basically just soft underbelly all over. We don't have claws or sharp teeth. Because we are bipeal, we are slower than many quadrupeds 1/5 our side. So we are great candidates for being selected as prey by many carnivores and some omnivores.

People say that a lot, or type it, but I don't buy it. And I don't understand why they believe it, either. It doesn't make sense.

Right, it isn't the lack of hunting pressure by humans that make the cougars see humans as potential prey. Cougars will see humans as potential prey because humans fit within the range of prey sized for cougars, are slow, and are able to be approached closely by cougars because humans are often completely clueless about their immediate environments. They don't associate rustling noises as movement of a predator coming to get them as do many other prey species. They don't spend a lot of time scanning their environment as deer often do. And, they either can't smell cougars on the wind or if they can smell them, have no idea what the smell is and so don't know to associate it with a cougar.

I was under the impression that if one of these cats wants you, they don't exactly stand their in a standoff... they want to eat and would rush you without a moments notice. maybe it was rabid?

Why is it that when we hear of an animal not conforming 100% to the perceived norm that one of the first postulations will be that it was rabid? Your description of predation behavior is not accurate or not commonly accurate. Once prey is located, often a large mammal, they will stalk or slink up as close to a prey animal to within fairly close range of around 10 yards or so according to Audubon. Ideally it will be a fairly concealed location or higher location. In is only within the last 10 yards or so that the cougar will charge or pounce. They have to approach close because they are unable to maintain their high speeds for anything more than a short chase.

For the article, it doesn't appear that the cougar was intending the hunter to by his/her prey. Because of relying on stealth and close range to be successful in hunting prey, cougars will not behave as described by the hunter, brazenly threatening to attack. If they warned their prey before attacking, they would not be very successful.

So why would such an interaction described between the cougar and hunter occur if the cougar wasn't rabid or wasn't after the hunter as food? Mountain lions are territorial and may defend their territory especially if breeding or having cached food nearby.

I am going to guess here, but the hunter's interpretation of the cougar's brazen threat to attack was more likely the cougar's way of trying to get the hunter to vacate the cougar's territory.

 

[rs3604]

All I can say is i would have shot first and asked later. I'm just glad to see that the wildlife dept didn't give him a hard time. I've heard alot about poeple shooting animals, mainly bears, in self defense and get a fine to pay and lose there hunting lic for the year. In one case a man shot a bear that was after his dog and because it wasn't threatening him he was fined and lost his lic. We had a mtn lion running around a heavily populated area here not to long ago and people were advised to ignore it and DO NOT SHOOT it. if it's in my back yard looking at my kid's like lunch it's dead.

 

[SomeKid]

Serious question, why bother notifying? Shoot, shovel, scoot.

 

[jashobeam]

Never take your eyes off of the cat

I have over a dozen books about animal attacks on humans, and while the majority of these books concern bears, one is exclusively about mountain lions. It seems that for people who are fortunate enough to have spotted a stealthily approaching cougar, the advance was suspended as long as they did not take their eyes off the cougar. As soon as they looked away, even for a split second, the cat would advance closer with astonishing quickness. If I recall, this scenario was also true for adults who were actively protecting a child (or another adult) that had been either chosen as prey or already attacked; the cougar would typically maintain a short distance and wait for the protector's stare to be interrupted. BTW, according to most accounts, persons involved in rescuing an attack victim typically do not become victims themselves; the cat has already chosen its prey and the rescuer becomes an obstacle. Cougars will even attempt to reach between the legs of an interposer to reclaim an intended victim. I've read a similar story involving a black bear. If your buddy's attacked, unless perhaps by a grizzly, don't run off or leave him for dead but join forces against the attacking animal. While grizzlies might attack to disable you as a threat, black bears, which have a higher rate of predation on humans than do grizzlies, should be assumed to be attacking with the intention of feeding.

Never play dead with a mountain lion or a black bear; the lion will make it a reality, and the bear won't waste time killing you but will begin to eat you as you lie there pretending.

While cougar attacks upon humans are rare, they do happen. A well-televised incident invovled a woman on a CA bike trail a few years back who was attacked by a cougar and was being dragged away by her face. Her very brave female companion held onto her legs and played tug-of-war until more help arrived and drove the lion away. The cougar had already killed and partially consumed a male bicyclist in the immediate area.

As far as hissing not being consistent with typical hunting behavior, I agree. Nevertheless, once the predator has been seen, stealth and silence are no longer necessary, until the person (prey) turns his back or looks away. That being said, could it be possible that the cougar hissed with the intention of putting his prey to flight in order to create a stalking situation suitable for a successful and conclusive hunt? Though I will concede that the encounter described in this thread may not have been predatory in nature, it was clearly (if account is accurate) hostile and menacing at least.

 

[El Tejon]

Finally! Good to see someone out West knows how to deal with critters--you shoot them.

For the fluffy bunny huggers, animals are notoriously low on the vital minerals of lead and cooper. Cranial injections cure the problem.

 

[dakotasin]

mountain lions are a touchy subject w/ me... the gf&p here says there aren't that many, and that they stay in a certain area. yet, both tracks and cats have been spotted far away from where they were supposed to be.

the cats were re-introduced because of political pressure, most of it coming from envirowhackos, and the cats have become a nuisance. the cats were very heavily protected here, too. it is not uncommon to spot them while i'm out hunting, so... well, you know...

finally, the gf&p says there may be enough to open a season on them, and thin the population a little. so, now the gf&p is fighting court battles w/ people from california (imagine that) who want the season stopped.

so, who was the mastermind that decided they should be re-introduced? was just in the news yesterday about another one being shot in somebody's back yard. when ya got cats in your back yard, and you have kids around, you become a little more aware, and a lot less tolerant of the california groups that are bringing forth lawsuits...

 

[cracked butt]

One reason to report it is to confirm that the cougars do exist in an area.

The Wisconsin DNR has been vehemently denying that cougars exist in Wisconsin for a long time. This fact hasn't stopped a friend of mine from seeing cougars on his land in N. Wisconsin, or taking pictures of deer carcasses found high up in trees.

 

[Joe Meyer]

What I will do when a cougar stalks me: Bang,Bang,Bang,Bang,Bang,Bang,Bang,Bang,Ping!...Reload...Bang,Bang,Bang..etc....

 

[Dr.Rob]

I have hunted in Colorado Cougar country for years... and while I may have glimpsed one once... it was too fast and too far away to be sure (my buddy hunting that ridgeline DID run into a cat that day about the same time).

Though I had a feeling I was being stalked once.

I was hunting alone, in a moose release area (8) near Red Feather Lakes... I had a nice quiet stalk through the woods, looking for paralelling game trails through a creek bottom to a place I know there is an elk wallow. Armed to the teeth as I was, I really didn't see any fresh sign that day. I stopped for lunch at the wallow, and about 3pm decided it might be a good idea to start my long hike back to the truck. (Hunt in, hunt out). I've been alone in the woods many times, in bad weather, at night, lost etc. and never felt 'scared.' But on that hike back to the truck, something just gave me a serious case of the heebie-jeebies... hair on the back of my neck standing up, skin crawling absolute UN-ease. I slung my rifle, drew my handgun and took for steps and looked around 360 degrees for the rest of the hike out. Never did see anything but something was 'wrong' about the woods that day. Based on the lion tracks I'd seen all over the area... who knows.

I never really did shake the feeling until I was back in my truck with the motor running.

This is the third time (if I recall) a hunter has killed a lion in self defense in the past 10 years. People up in Boulder canyon lose pets and livestock to lions all the. My ex Gf lost two rare goats to a lion in Deer Creek Canyon.

Lions are usually only dangerous when they are used to people being around ...like treeing joggers in Boulder or stealing pets off the front porch.

Out in the 'woods' they don't like to be seen if they can help it.

 

[GunGoBoom]

Serious question, why bother notifying?

2 reasons.

1. Because it's the right thing to do. The wildlife dept., and through them, the public, have an interest in knowing & recording/tracking the fact that an animal aggression by cougar occurred, and the when/where/how/whys of it all, in order to predict future behavior and make decisions accordingly (whether it be to open up a hunting season or whatever).

2. Because if you shovel & shut up, and then IF you are *discovered*, your claim of self-defense will be far less likely to be believed, even if true, due to the apparent 'guilty mind' evidence.

#2 is not an issue if you are so far out in the boonies no one would ever find out. #1 is nevertheless still an important issue.

 

[Biker]

I worked for the local zoo with the carnivores for 4 months this year while between jobs. I learned much in that time. Concerning Mountain Lions, they are very much aware of size and physical orientation. I'm 6' 1" and 190 while the rest of the zookeepers were small women with the exception of a small statured male. Believe it or not, the cats treated me with much more respect than the others except when my back was turned...it didn't seem to matter much then. On the other hand, I just seemed to piss the Grizzlies off more. The Black Bears were more like the cats, and I became very good friends with a Badger named Chase. A bit off topic, but....
Biker

 

[Boss Spearman]

The fact he used a muzzle loader makes me doubt his story. I'm sure he's an expert, but even the mountain men usually had to resort to using Bowie knives to finish off quick predators like big cats.

A lion is running at him and he nails it in one shot with a muzzle loader?

I don't know.