Collet bushing vs. Solid bushing?

[PinnedAndRecessed]

I've got a 70's vintage Mk 4/Series 70 Colt 45 ACP. I've only put about 2000 rounds through it since I bought it in 77.

I've been reading on THR how that the Series 70 Colts were unreliable. The best I can understand is that they are unreliable because of the collet bushing breaking and destroying the gun.

I have a local gunsmith who agreed to install a solid bushing for $50. He's done work on another gun and seems to take pride in his craft. But he's only installed about a dozen solid bushings on customer's firearms.

Question: is the hoopla about collet bushings as bad as it sounds, or is it just the henny penny syndrome?

Question #2: How complicated is the installation of a solid bushing and is the above mentioned smith unquestionably qualified to do it? He'll stand behind his work but the gun has sentimental value.

thanx in advance

 

[Vern Humphrey]

First of all, a broken collet will tie up a gun, but not destroy it.

Collets break because of improper installation -- if you have a point where the collet fingers touch the slide, then you have a stress riser, which results in a broken collet.

If you have put 2,000 rounds through your gun, I doubt the collet is improperly installed. If you wish to install a solid bushing, you can easily do that yourself.

A drop-in bushing will work well, or you can fit a bushing. The only tools you really need are a drill, a vise, and a lot of 1" strip emery paper.

First fit the bushing to the barrel -- it should be an easy slip fit (because the barrel has to tilt inside the bushing to function.) If the bushing is too tight, a slip of emery paper in a dowel, spun by the drill will open it up a little.

Next, fit the bushingto the slide. This will take more work. Clamp the bushing in the vise, and use a shoe-shine action with the emery strips to work the diameter down slowly. Frequently reassemble. Smoke the bushing before trying it, to find high spots.

I like to fit mine so that you really need a bushing wrench to remove them. You may prefer yours a little looser.

 

[R.H. Lee]

Thanks, Vern! I've got a Series 70 Colt Combat Government with a collett bushing also, and replacement has been on my 'to do' list.

(as well as a loose plunger tube that needs re-staking).

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Quote:
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(as well as a loose plunger tube that needs re-staking).
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Restaking requires a tool (available from Brownell's). I have made staking tools from ordinary knife-blade steel (I make knives, too.) Just saw, file, and grind, then heat treat.

 

[Dave Sample]

I have seen these bushings fail for 20 years and no 1911 ever left my shop with a collet bushing in it. Barstow made the first one with three fingers and as far as I know, they have always worked fine. Colt, of couse, took the idea and made theirs with four fingers. Your bushing may run the life of the gun or it may break at some time down the line. I have seen thoses jam up a gun and crack the lower end, but they usualy can be beaten apart with a lead hammer or the like. There are two ways to fit a bushing. The right way and the wrong way. The right way is to know how to fit it so it doesn't spring the barrel. It has to tip in the bushing while firing so the inside has to be done to allow it to do that. You also need to know what to file and sand on and what to leave alone. It has to be fitted to the slide so it is tight the whole way around and that is where the accuracy comes from. Bushings run about $15.00 or so. Give it a try and remember to work on the cheapest part. Use a blue Marks-alot and fit and try until you get what you need. $50.00 is a fair price if they know how to do it.

 

[PinnedAndRecessed]

Vern/Dave/Anybody.

Who makes the best drop in bushing?

My 1911 was accurized by Jim Clark. Would a drop in bushing maintain my gun's current level of accuracy?

 

[Dave Sample]

I can't give you an honest answer because I always fit the new NM bushings myself. Get on line with Brownell's website and see what they have for bushings. I think Briley may have one that will work. The problem is that some smiths will hog out the inside of the slide to make their money faster. I do not think that it will effect the accuracy much unless you are a champion shooter that can do three inches at 50 years. All of my guns shoot better than I can shoot them. Keep us posted on this one.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Quote:
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Who makes the best drop in bushing?

My 1911 was accurized by Jim Clark. Would a drop in bushing maintain my gun's current level of accuracy?
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Wilson makes a good bushing, and you can get both drop-in and fitted.

I suspect a drop in bushing would affect accuracy -- but It takes a real marksman to tell the difference.

 

[Dave Sample]

I never use Wilson parts but I am sure Vern is right. Go for it!

 

[PinnedAndRecessed]

Vern. I just got off the phone with Wilson. They said they don't make a "drop-in" bushing. This guy said he doesn't think there is such an animal.

I don't feel comfortable tackling installing a bushing myself. I don't want to ship it. So I guess I'll let my guy try it. Wish me luck.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Hmmm . . . They had one on their website when I bought my last one.

But I agree -- if you don't feel comfortable doing it yourself, have a pro do it.

 

[Dave Sample]

Ditto, Vern. It does take some skill and knowedge to fit them. If you can find a Pistolsmith to do it, I would feel better. I love gunsmiths, but they have to be "Jack of all Trades" and may or may not know how to do a proper bushing fit. Good luck with your choice.

 

[PinnedAndRecessed]

Dave and Vern. I just got off the phone with my smith. Thanks to the info you fellas gave me I knew some of the right questions to ask, viz., metal comes off the bushing, not the slide; barrel tilt.

He answered correctly. On my way to the shop. Gotta run. Thanks again.

BTW, after I get it back and range test it I'll give you an update.

 

[Dave Sample]

Thanks. Let us know!

 

[quantico]

I understand why the fit of the bushing need to be snug ... and how there needs to be play to tilt the barrel slightly up and down... but why would making the bushing to the slide SUPER-tight offer any benefit. Once the fit is snug I can't imagine the bushing moving much in any direction.. what benefit is there to needing a bushing wrench tightness ???

My colt series 80 had a fingered bushing for almost 30,000 rounds ... shiney marks on the barrel... but I had the bushing removed as a failure sounded like an experience that I don't really want to have.

 

[Dave Sample]

We build tight guns for many reasons that I won't go into here. I have both kinds of bushing fits in my personal guns because I use them for different things. If you have a stock factory gun, you do not need a tight bushing fit because the other areas that determine maximum accuracy are simply not there. They need to be tight in every area to get the most out of it. The barrel needs to be in there with no movement at all. It needs to repeat it's trip every time with no play anywhere in the barrel system to be a "One Holer" and there are very few shooters that I know that can out shoot most of the 1911's on the market today. I was not aware that the Colt '80 series 1911's came with a collet bushing, but anything can happen with them. I am glad you changed it because it is a malfunction waiting to happen, in my opinion!

 

[stans]

I was not aware that the Colt '80 series 1911's came with a collet bushing, but anything can happen with them. I am glad you changed it because it is a malfunction waiting to happen, in my opinion!

I think most Series 80's came with solid bushings, but there may well have been a few "transitional models" as Colt cleaned out its stock of collet bushings and barrels at the start of the Series 80 production run.

 

[1911Tuner]

First of all, a broken collet will tie up a gun, but not destroy it.

Oh, I wouldn't say that.............

 

[dsk]

Call up Springfield Armory and order a replacement bushing off one of their their Mil-Specs. It will plop in without any fitting whatsoever, and you'll never notice any practical accuracy difference unless you're shooting 50yd Bullseye matches.