Colt Defender woes

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:D :D :D
Thanks! No, no negative message! Having wrestled with a Kel-Tec P-3AT, I know what too loose a hand can do. I've just never had it happen with anything else --- which leads me to think that hand fatigue might be the demon on this one.

I know when I get tired my groups start drifting to the left. It's subtle, but enough for a pal to tell me, just from watching the sheet, "Time for a break."

I've been pounding on this project a bit too hard. Every little thing that pops up, I start wondering if it's related. Of course, it doesn't need to be.

I'm thinking that the new mag springs and about five minutes of tinkering and I may be there, without having to swap out the link.

I've fired the Defender one-handed before (for the sake of the exercise --- it doesn't help with anything but freeing up your other hand :D ), so I can see what you mean with your Commanders.

I've shot this gun enough that I hadn't realized how much my whole body has become part of the act. That may sound silly, but I've found that a minor stance shift (with a fair number of rounds) can be a pain in the back. A grip shift can change recoil perception and recovery. Most of all, shooting a lot (for me) with a lightweight, relatively big bore pistol has developed a sort of "groove" where I'm as comfortably balanced with everything as I can get. It's become instinctual. So it's entirely possible that I've shifted to accommodate a few issues (hand injuries, age, fatigue, arthritis --- the joys of being "seasoned") and now I'm introducing some other problems into the mix.

Before I got involved in trying to "wring out" this gun (I had been going to sell it. Fat chance...) I found that the less I shot, to an extent, the better I shot. Lately, I've been shooting this particular gun a LOT, trying to tame it. We both need a break!

Gotta check out that Wilson stop. Thanks!

PS --- that "detent," or ledge --- is that on the rear face, engaging the plunger pin?
 
Defenders et al

Somewhere up there...John Browning is lookin' down on all this and goin':

Three inches??? You've GOTTA be yankin' my chain!

laugh.gif
 
Yeah, I know. Amazing, isn't it.

Wonder what he'd think of the EMP ...
 
Yessir, it is.

I was having similar problems and one of the possible solutions that was offered by another member of THR involved drilling/machining a detent in the rear face of the slide lock.

I promptly gave my trusty Dremel a lube and oil change and asked how much depth needed to be drilled into the rear face of the slide lock/release. I was also wondering as to just exactly how to do the 'teardrop' divot.

1911Tuner offered the suggestion that I dis-member the Dremal by placing the Dremel in the middle of a well traveled highway.

He stoped short of suggesting that the remains of the Dremel be buried in the dark of the moon at various locations.

He is the gent who first mentioned the Wilson slide lock/release. It was also mentioned that it just might be necessary to remove part of the ledge to insure that the slide would lock open on the last round.

That wasn't necessary.

Regarding my Commanders, I tried the Wilson replacement part mostly 'cause I vaugely remember Tuners suggestion and didn't really didn't want to bugger up the OEM slide lock.

Now I gotta try to find a Studebaker Commander so my Colt Commanders can go riding in style.

salty.
 
A Dremel with anything but rouge at low speed is a potential threat to life as we know it. :D

The bits themselves are neat as finger-spindle tools, in a pin vise. They're reasonably safe :rolleyes: .

I've used 'em for years on a variety of projects and sculptures, but the touch required with any of the cutting tools is insanely light. Dowels, a .223 casing, 200-grit, 400-grit, a smooch with the rouge. I'll have the pictures uploaded shortly.

Can't see the rear face of the slide lock in the product photos. I need to pulverize myself with this thing some more before I toss another $50 in. (Yeah, like that's ever been a real contest of will :D .)

I can't imagine what kind of detent you could get away with on that part (!!!!). It's just the plunger pressure that's tensioning it in. I have a Springfield GI with a safety that had a detent that needed a crowbar to budge it. That was relatively easy to grasp. The slide lock is subtler.
 
1911 pistol makers have got it made these days… ;)

They are of course in business to make money, and this entails coming up with models that potential buyers will see as “sweet,” or “cool,” and of course “tactical.” When they’ve solved that issue it’s fat city…

What could be better then a neat, easy-to-carry model with a give-or-take 3” barrel? Oh it’s true that folks that are knowledge know these sweet, cool and tactical guns are often jam-o-matics from git-go, but that doesn’t matter. Very few buyers are so knowledgeable, and how many of them have a set of blueprints…? Besides, if the pistol won’t run the new owner will find tinkering with it to be irresistible. That should void any warrantees in no time. Then the tar baby’s all their responsibility and no ones else’s. Not too worry, they can always install a 22 pound recoil spring and do a fluff & buff job on the barrel and feed ramp… That’s what they make hand grinders for… :eek:

Full-sized guns may be a bit harder to sell, but if one adds enough gadgets and give them impressive names like, “Ultra-Terminator Mk. VI” they’ll go out the door like hotcakes on a cold morning. Sometimes the buyer can even be conned into putting 1000 rounds through the piece by telling them that this a necessary “break in” procedure. They of course, have to foot the ammunition bill. :banghead:

I should start up something called “Fuff’s Patent Gunworks,” and get in on this goldmine… :evil: :D
 
Hey! How much to join??? :D

Seriously, I was aware of a lot of potential glitches from the beginning; I'd looked at and shot Kimbers and Springers. I already had two 5" 1911s, so I got the itch for a peewee. Funny --- the Defender felt exactly like the Gov., with Hogues!

The ammo thing is the killer. Hard to assess things without the actual mechanical stresses of live fire. This also makes it darned obvious that a teensy-bit by teensy-bit approach is pretty much the only way.

Now, if you want to make some bucks, patent a series of snap-caps with schnozzes that replicate the popular JHP flavors. I mean, they cost a bunch to begin with. Imagine what you could rake in for .45ACP/Ranger Zoomies!!! :D
 
Hang on before you spend any money.

What I did was mainly because I had a spare slide lock and didn't want to file/stone an OEM part. There are other things that could be causing mid magazine slide lock.

1911Tuner knows more about such things than I'll ever understand.

I'm lazy and tried the easiest possible solution for me. Fortunately, it seems to have worked.

I'm also hanging onto the dang handle a bit tighter.

As always, your mileage may vary.

salty.
 
Gotcha. No hurry. never had this problem with any 1911 before, but this critter's different. Hanging on is my first choice. I think I might have the other stuff locked down.

I noticed something funny. Actually, i noticed it awhile ago, but failed to mention it. There is a chamfer around the chamber, and a "dimple" at the bottom of the barrel ramp. As I've "chronicled," this dimple and the bottom of the ramp had to be moved forward fractionally. (Yes, yes, pictures done, maybe upload tomorrow.) Thing is, the general chamfer or relief around the chamber has never been symmetrical, right-to-left, Kinda weird-looking :scrutiny: , but I don't think it has any effect.

I remember my Dad's Studebaker. Man, do I wish I'd inherited that.
 
Obsession ...

Wolff springs in today ... the wire dia. mics up about .003" more than the Colt springs. They actually feel stronger ... but then, they're also new.

Looking at the premature slide lock thing, playing with the Snap-Caps again, I think I can visualize what's going on (aside from "limping" it, which I don't really think is the problem). I'm repeating all of the ground that Tuner, Fuff, et al have documented.

Way it seems, the slide distance isn't different, but the reduced inertia of the 3" means that the slide moves a teense faster. Each cartridge drags the "on deck" cartridge forward slightly. If the mag springs are even a hair soft, the action beats the following cartridge forward before the cartridge has had a chance to rise completely into position --- and the bullet nose strikes the slide lock lug, engaging it.

I think. :scrutiny:

I think it might be time to do some serious time with the Mk III for a wee bit ... while I can still afford it ... :D
 
...but the reduced inertia of the 3" means that the slide moves a teense faster.
Click to expand...

I have a news flash. That slide moves considerably faster, and when you combine that with shorter run up, the reason for so many functional problems with the sub-length guns should be obvious.

Largely through experimentation, Browning worked out the proper balance between his spring tensions and the mass/weight of the moving slide. Now comes the guys that think you can cut two inches - give or take - off the front end and it won't make any difference. Now this is true of revolvers, but it seldom works out with pistols. Also when you shorten the recoil spring tunnel by 1 1/2 to 2 inches it becomes necessary to create a Micky Mouse recoil spring system with more then one spring, and those are often overstressed and should be replaced frequently.

Tuner has gone to great length to explain all of this, and he has tried to find solutions when someone drops a sub-length on his kitchen table, and says - "can you fix it? It don't run..."

Do tell .... :banghead:
 
... the reason for so many functional problems with the sub-length guns should be obvious.
Click to expand...
:uhoh: :confused: :eek: :scrutiny:

Well, I suppose that's what this particular pistol has meant to me: disclosing the already-not-so-obvious, and trying to learn from it. And live. :D

There are far more subtleties in 1911s than in (my) other pistols, and far more in the 3". I'm reasonably certain that I've been cured of sub-4" 1911s. Great gun, though. :D

PS
I'm so "spoiled," leaving Sig and SA mags loaded or rotating the loaded/unloaded ones. It seems to me that the Defender mags probably need to be left unloaded until needed, i.e., getting a second set, and springs, and alternating.
 
Old Fuff said:

"Tuner has gone to great length to explain all of this, and he has tried to find solutions when someone drops a sub-length on his kitchen table, and says - "can you fix it? It don't run..."

I'm just glad he doesn't toss them out the door and tell the owner:
If you kow what's good for you,you'll follow it............
 
Yeah, well --- if my latest "laboratory work" isn't rosy, I expect I'll be sending this one off for resuscitation. :D

I think the learning curve is actually an important component. I wouldn't want to tangle with the innards of my Sig (outside of drop-in stuff) --- but a 1911 is somehow "graspable," even if elusive. Once "right," I think these things are pretty much bombproof. Once "wrong," it's tail-chasing time. :banghead:

Funny, though --- if I take out the 1943 Colt, with the wartime mags, it runs like silk. (Ahhh --- but those mags are used little, and are left empty ...)

I think (shhh --- don't let the little darling hear this!!) that I'm down to tweaking. Compared to a couple of weeks ago, it's now a pistol, as opposed to being a noisy paperweight. :D
 
51,
That is a current 2006 Detonics!

Tuner,
I was machining and 'hobby' smiffing in '82. Went full time smiffing in about '85.
 
Where were you in '82?

Raja...We sold a buttload of those things at the shop I part-timed at early on. Everybody...and I mean EVERY-body wanted a "Mini 'Leven." The problem chillun showed up almost immediately. I spent many an hour on those things, just tryin' to get'em to run. That's pretty much when I figured out that short-barrelled 1911 variants were persnickety...but at least it gave me a leg up on the Officer's Models, et al when they second wave hit.

Almost turned me into an Excedrin junkie...:D
 
Ahhhhh!!! (So far ...)

New Wolff mag springs in. Barrel ramp where it apparently needs to be. So ...

After three successive mags with stovepipes (shooting ball), all of a sudden --- everything --- smooooooothed --- out! Seven mags in a row, slick as can be.

Ran slick as, well, slick stuff.

We had a "substitute" RO today. Afterwards, he asked me what gun that was that was making all the racket. So I showed it to him. He said some very nice things about what I had been doing to the 50-foot targets, with a little 3" barrel. So I told him the story about this thing.

Nice ending (or what I hope is an ending) to this.

When I clean it I can feel a distinct rattle and twist in the extractor, which is probably my last necessary tweak. (JB Weld, a little filing, snug the sucker up.) And --- no "short" link, yet. :)

I figure, after the JB, get through a hitch-free box, life will be good(er)! :D

When spoiled rotten, this Defender has embarrassed a few folks with 5" barrels. For some reason, this little princess has defied disposal and resale by: a) being gorgeous; and b) being science-fiction accurate for a peewee barrel. Now, if my eyes and hands could do it justice ... :D

Again, thanks for all the hand-holding, advice, encouragement, and "whoas!" This little beast has been an education in itself.

One more range session, I figure I can stop boring you folks with all this!
 
Smoooooth

51Cards wrote:

>New Wolff mag springs in. Barrel ramp where it apparently needs to be. So ...

After three successive mags with stovepipes (shooting ball), all of a sudden --- everything --- smooooooothed --- out! Seven mags in a row, slick as can be.<
******

Yep. It's usually somethin' simple. :cool:

Don't bother with the JB Weld. It won't last and it could crumble and fall into the lockwork and cause problems. Get an oversized stop and fit it...first to the slide without the extractor, and then with the extractor installed.
 
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