colt dragoon suitable for self defence?

[agent00]

hi, I am new in this board and I have got an uberti colt dragoon and I have used for fun shooting. But would my gun also suitable for serious self defence? I think one advantage would that there is no risk of overpenatration. But has 44 call round ball enough stopping power?
My question is more therotical because I am from austria and there the crime rate is not so high and it is very unlikly that I have to use the gun for sd.

 

[Yooper]

There was a time when the Walker Colt was the absolute best self defense weapon around. I doubt that human physiology has changed much since the 1840s, so it would still probably get the job done. There are better choices currently, but if you are somehow limited to the Walker, it is still better than a #2 shovel!

 

[agent00]

thanks for your answer, and I know that there are better guns for sd, but I am only a black powder fun shooter, and I like my dragoon and as I have already mentioned that it is very unlikly that I have to use the gun for that pupose. And at close range,a 44 cal ball is very effectiv.

 

[DillHarris]

Someone will be along shortly with ballistics numbers, but personally I say it would be more than sufficient. Some people don't trust anything less than a .380, and some people don't trust anything less than a .44 magnum. For the theoretical "is it enough?", I'd say it is. There's probably better choices though because ignition can tend to be a bit more of an issue than with modern, well-made cartridge firearms (note the well-made part). Incidentally, is there much of an interest in American blackpowder firearms in Austria? Good post and glad you enjoy your Dragoon. Like you said, they are fun. Take it easy.

 

[enfield]

Matty Ross couldn't get hers to fire the second shot when Tom Chaney came for her. She blamed it on some drunken fool loading the gun, but who knows?

 

[4v50 Gary]

As said before, there are better guns, but a Colt Dragoon beats shaking an angry fist or shout profanities while the daylights are being stomped out of you. Yep, I'll take a Dragoon over hand to hand. Use pure lead. It expands better.

 

[Preacherman]

There's an interesting article by Sanow comparing modern handgun rounds to Old West blackpowder revolvers. He rates the Walker Colt as equivalent to a modern .41 Magnum in energy delivery: and since the Dragoon was second only to the Walker in powder capacity, I'd rate it as probably equal to a modern .357 Magnum in terms of energy delivery. Certainly, I'd hate to be shot with one!

 

[armoredman]

I would not feel unarmed with a good BP revolver in my hand. I'd take a Dragoon over a 22, 25, or 380 if I had a choice, and didn't have to conceal! Lot's of fights have been ended by the old smokepole!

 

[Stickjockey]

Assuming proper shot placement, I wouldn't feel undergunned.

 

[agent00]

thx again for your answer, and I am right that when using a colt dragoon against sof targets that there is no risk of overpentration? Iam not an balistic expert but I think a 44 call round ball has much less penetration power as an modern fmj bullet.

 

[RyanM]

I believe just about any non-expanding bullet will "overpenetrate" if shot into a human of about average size, barring the extremely tiny calibers.

I have no idea what the muzzle velocity of a Dragoon is, but here are some peretration figures on .454", 140 grain round ball that a calculator I programmed spit out, assuming the balls don't deform:

250 mps, 43.4 cm gelatin/flesh, 4.6 cm brick, 13.8 cm wood
300 mps, 50.1 cm gelatin, 6.1 cm brick, 17.9 cm wood
350 mps, 55.7 cm gelatin, 7.6 cm brick, 22.0 cm wood
400 mps, 60.8 cm gelatin, 9.1 cm brick, 25.9 cm wood
450 mps, 65.3 cm gelatin, 10.6 cm brick, 29.6 cm wood

If the balls flatten out to 15 mm:

250 mps, 25.7 cm gelatin
300 mps, 29.6 cm gelatin
350 mps, 32.9 cm gelatin
400 mps, 35.9 cm gelatin
450 mps, 38.6 cm gelatin

These numbers should be taken with a few grains of salt, but I've found that they correlate very closely with real-world data most of the time. For instance, in the real world, a 16" naval gun penetrates 36" of steel at point blank range (2,700 pounds at 2,500 fps); my calculator says 39". A 4.5mm steel bb at 590 fps is supposed to go 8.5cm into ballistic gelatin; my calculator says 8.56cm. This link says 32 cm penetration on the FBI load, my calculator says 30.7 cm.

Pretty darn accurate, I'd say.

Also, keep in mind that while the average male torso is about 23 cm thick, skin on the entrance side is the equivalent of 5 cm of gelatin, and skin on the exit side is more like 10 cm. Bone is completely different, and can make bullets do crazy things.

 

[gezzer]

Tactical reloads will be slow

 

[unspellable]

self defence w cap & ball

A pure lead ball will generally flatten when it enters a body so I don't think oevrpenetration is an issue. (When it is an issue, it's much over rated.)

I'd worry more about reliability that stopping ability. A percussion cap and nipple doesn't have the punch a primer does. Plus there's more likely hood of having oil or grease in the way. Caps can fall off and jam the action. A cap & ball is slow to load so to be of any use you have to keep it around loaded.

But given that everything works, the old timers had a pretty good reputation for stopping the fight.

 

[agent00]

ok thanks again for your answers.

 

[mec]

A trustworthy reporter, Jim Taylor of New GunWeek. told of an acquaintance who was shot in the chest with a .44 Colt 1860. He lived but the ball went all the way through.
For clocked dragoon loads, see the dragoon post below.

This Walker was putting out the ball at 1,000- 1050. Two balls we recovered after being shot through a pork shoulder expanded to 54 and 58".

 

[Cap n Ball]

"suitable for serious self defence?"

Uh, well...yes very 'serious'. I imagine that if you asked anyone who survived being plugged by a dragoon if they thought it was 'suitable' their response would depend upon the reason they got in the path of a bullet in the first place.

 

[unspellable]

Walker

Do my eyes deceive me, or does that Walker display the dreaded limp lever syndrome?

 

[mec]

so it does. Except with light loads of american pioneer. It may be possible to tighten it up a bit I found a paper casually wraped around the retaining spring kept it from dropping very far.

Seems to be a feature of the design so, we've just been re-erecting it after every shot.

 

[Texian Pistolero]

The load itself will be quite effective,

but,

One,

a percussion cap is not as reliable as a modern pistol cartridge,

and,

Two,

this is a single action weapon, and double action handguns have evolved quite nicely.

That said,

I have complete faith in the basic load.

 

[stevelyn]

Mike Venturino wrote an interesting article in GUNS (I think) a couple of months ago testing various blackpowder cartridge and cap and ball revolvers.
The the only cartridge to beat the .44 was the .45 Colt, but only by an an inch or so. The test medium were 1" pine boards.
Oh yeah, if you're concerned about velocity, stoke it up w/ Triple 7.

 

[agent00]

thx again

for your answers, and I of cousre I know the drawbacks concerning reliabilty, but as I have allready mentioned it very unlikly that I have to use my gun for self defence, but in any case of emergency I want o be prepared, and I think my dragoon would serve me will to stopf an fight.

ps: would it be possible to use heavier 44 cal roundballs than in 140 grains in the dragoon and would this increase the stopping power.?

 

[mec]

These chronographed velocites come from our Uberti 3rd Dragoon. They correspond fairly closely with data published by Lyman. Of course, the results will vary with components selected and from one gun to another.

As you can see, the velocities with Pyrodex are higher than those with fffg black powder. This is true both with round ball and with the Lee conical bullet that is 60 grains heavier than the ball. The velocities are respectable deriving energies that range from the old upper end 38 special outdoorsman loads of the 1930s to those produced by the standard factory loading of the .45 Colt. Any of the listed loads should have the capacity to put the projectile entirely through a human target and cause more or less immediate harm. Very likely said target would fall down but it is very well known that some humans continue to function even when solidly hit with .44 Magnums.

aside from depleted uranium, or the theoretical core of a colapsed neutron star, I don't know of a way to get a heavier round ball without increasing its diameter.

 

[unspellable]

round balls and weight

It's easy to make a heavier round ball of the same diameter. Just make it out of gold. Gold will make excellent bullets.s (Nobody said anything about the cost!)

 

[mec]

thank you. Much more easily obtained and cheaper than the elements I mentioned. Didn't realize it was heavier than lead. Silver would do. Of course, it's lighter but if rendered from a crucifix and given the proper blessing, it would dispatch strigi and the loup garou.

 

[agent00]

ok

ok thanks for your answers. And I know that sometimes more than one shot is necessary to stop a fight. But I think it is very unlikly that have to use my dragoon for something else than fun shooting, but if I schould need the gun for sd I think my dragoon will serve me well.