Colt LE6920 or S&W M&P15 Mid

Colt LE6920MPS vs S&W M&P15 Mid MOE

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cdb1 said:
Windham's are excellent ARs. For all intent they are the original Bushmaster. Just did some looking and from I can tell Windham is a combination of Mil Spec and Commercial, the other two are Commercial with the Ruger having some proprietary parts. Using your own criteria none of them fit your idea of "good, reliable durable AR's. There are many people who would disagree with you. I'd be happy to own a Windham or Ruger or a number of DPMS models, but not an Oracle because the gas block sits lower than the receiver.

My son has a Stag that I bought him. The Stag website says their rifles are Mil Spec. My son's Stag sure doesn't seem to have better fit and finish or have been more durable than my DPMS A2 Classic I bought at the same time.
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I have no problem with commercial spec from a quality standpoint. For example, it's completely acceptable to have a commercial receiver extension as long as it's 7075T6, type II class II anodized, etc. Colt's older stuff has a lot of non-milspec dimensioned parts that are still milspec quality. The only reason most avoid commercial spec like the plague is because it's not widely supported and it's just downright asinine. There are two surefire ways to buy yourself trouble with an AR: get one that's got a pinned and welded flash hider, or a commercial spec one. It will be forever and a day confounding any and all attempts to customize it to your liking, especially as your preferences change over time with more experience and better products coming out.

The parts that really matter are the BCG and barrel. If your BCG and barrel are milspec or better, then you're pretty much good to go, as long as the rest isn't complete crap. Unfortunately, very few of the non-DOD supplier brands, if any of them, are doing true milspec, bolts especially. And even more unfortunately, you can't tell by looking at a bolt if the milspec was adhered to or not. But if we're talking about a 550 dollar Oracle, you can make a pretty safe bet that it's not. The fit and finish could be amazing and the bolt still crack a lug at the 3k round mark. Or the 3 round mark for that matter. Honestly, the LE6920 is the absolute cheapest fully milspec AR you're going to find. IMHO, it's just unreasonable to expect decent quality from an AR that costs less than a Glock. And the last time I looked, you could get an LE6920 for around 750 if you shopped around, so you're getting a massive increase in quality for a very small investment.
 
I dont think keymod will stand the test of time. Even BCM is in the process of making their KMR rail in M-lock. I had a KMR rail of the original metal blend type. I liked it but was wary of the durability so I sold it and bought another Geissele SMR.

OP. I would choose the Colt. I have one for a duty weapon and my department fields a few hundred of them. We had a time where we ran about 200 Bushmasters and they just didn't hold up. Every single training class/qualification (every quarter) we had rifles going down. We had so many problems that we sold the Bushmasters to a distributor on a 2 for 1 deal on new Colts. Now that everyone is running Colts again, having a rifle go down during training is rare. In the last 4 years I can remember 2 or 3 rifles having issues.
 
ob3ygiant said:
I've been interested in getting an AR for quite some time and narrowed my search to two that fit my budget...but can only afford one.

If you had to decide between a Colt LE6920MPS or S&W M&P15 Mid MOE which would you choose? Both seem to be well-respected and I like the Magpul furniture offered on both...which of the two would you pick and why? Is there really much difference between a carbine vs mid-length gas system?
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IMO, the 6920 is a benchmark platform. Colt's quality control is also exceptional.
 
I have both and find the Colt much better, thus my vote. My Smith has been OK, but I shoot a lot outdoors and the Smith's finish has worn faster and the overall build doesn't have the same quality as the Colt. I ended up buying a second Colt because of my experience with the first one (it's for my 11 year old, who kept trying to take mine!). I felt that if there ever was an heirloom type AR (and I realize I am stretching this...) it is a Colt and he will be proud to own it many years from now. I kept the Smith and still use it quite a bit, but the Colts are our go to guns for 90% of our shooting. Like others have stated, there is nothing wrong with the Smith, but the Colt is a better gun hands down.
 
I too would choose a Colt over the S&W. Personally, when making the same decision, I chose a BCM Mod 0 rifle with the mid-length gas system. Never regretted spending the extra coin! That, ammo, a sling and Aimpoint PRO RDS are all I "need" (and what I have). Wants are a different thing! Good luck, and let us know what you decide on.

p.s. Coal Dragger's description of some of the differences between an AR that adhere's to the governments TDP and those that don't is right on the money. Nothing wrong with some of the lesser AR's as they cost less, but I like the peace of mind of having an AR that is built to a very specific standard and was happy to pay extra for it.
 
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grampajack said:
I have no problem with commercial spec from a quality standpoint. For example, it's completely acceptable to have a commercial receiver extension as long as it's 7075T6, type II class II anodized, etc. Colt's older stuff has a lot of non-milspec dimensioned parts that are still milspec quality. The only reason most avoid commercial spec like the plague is because it's not widely supported and it's just downright asinine. There are two surefire ways to buy yourself trouble with an AR: get one that's got a pinned and welded flash hider, or a commercial spec one. It will be forever and a day confounding any and all attempts to customize it to your liking, especially as your preferences change over time with more experience and better products coming out.

The parts that really matter are the BCG and barrel. If your BCG and barrel are milspec or better, then you're pretty much good to go, as long as the rest isn't complete crap. Unfortunately, very few of the non-DOD supplier brands, if any of them, are doing true milspec, bolts especially. And even more unfortunately, you can't tell by looking at a bolt if the milspec was adhered to or not. But if we're talking about a 550 dollar Oracle, you can make a pretty safe bet that it's not. The fit and finish could be amazing and the bolt still crack a lug at the 3k round mark. Or the 3 round mark for that matter. Honestly, the LE6920 is the absolute cheapest fully milspec AR you're going to find. IMHO, it's just unreasonable to expect decent quality from an AR that costs less than a Glock. And the last time I looked, you could get an LE6920 for around 750 if you shopped around, so you're getting a massive increase in quality for a very small investment.
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Can you please tell me where you're seeing Colt LE6920s for $750? I'd snap one of those today...best I've seen recently is around $950 at Buds.
I'm going to keep my eyes open for any amazing sales over next two months and will go with a Colt unless I find an incredible deal on a BCM.

There should be a decent supply of ARs due to the BHO and Hillary scare..my hope is that by Summer and after SCOTUS Gorsuch is seated, prices will fall a bit more.

Thanks to all for your input and personal experience with these firearms.
 
ob3ygiant said:
Can you please tell me where you're seeing Colt LE6920s for $750? I'd snap one of those today...best I've seen recently is around $950 at Buds.
I'm going to keep my eyes open for any amazing sales over next two months and will go with a Colt unless I find an incredible deal on a BCM.

There should be a decent supply of ARs due to the BHO and Hillary scare..my hope is that by Summer and after SCOTUS Gorsuch is seated, prices will fall a bit more.

Thanks to all for your input and personal experience with these firearms.
Click to expand...
I bought a Magpul edition Colt M4/6920 a few years ago and couldn't be happier. Its is very accurate and has been 100% reliable. The fit and finish is excellent also.
 
If it were me, I would purchase a Colt OEM 6920. You can get them for $<700.

Advantage is you get to put exactly what furniture you want on it and don't end up with a drawer of replaced parts. Most folks end up replacing factory furniture at some point anyway, this saves that expense. In case you wondering, super easy to install the missing items, only the trigger guard requires a couple basic tools. (You can do a lot better than the basic stock and handguard on that Buds rifle for a lot less than the $250+ difference in price)

With a front sight
http://www.colt.com/Portals/0/Specs/2016/LE6920-OEM1.pdf

Without a front sight
http://www.colt.com/Portals/0/Specs/2016/LE6920-OEM2.pdf

Here is a list of places selling the OEM1.
https://www.slickguns.com/search/apachesolr_search/098289020246?upc_only=1




.
 
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It's well known that your powder will burn poorly if it's ignited while in contact with anything other than a full auto BCG, and your bullet will likely feel insecure while traveling down a non-chrome lined barrel. I would expect a bullet fired from a non mil spec AR to bounce off of any self respecting bad guy.

Sarcasm aside, I don't think you provided enough information to get useful feedback. The Colt is built to a higher level of quality, there's no doubt you get what you pay for in this case. I bought the S&W because the Colt wasn't worth the 90% price premium for my situation ($515 for my S&W vs $981 for a Colt 6920).

Never has the first piece of equipment I bought in a new hobby been the piece of equipment I wanted after gaining some experience in that hobby. Thus, I voted for the S&W in your poll. If you don't like ARs, you'll have spent less on the S&W. If you love ARs, you'll use the S&W until you develop an opinion on exactly what you want in an AR, and will have spent less money gaining that opinion.
 
Corn-Picker said:
It's well known that your powder will burn poorly if it's ignited while in contact with anything other than a full auto BCG, and your bullet will likely feel insecure while traveling down a non-chrome lined barrel. I would expect a bullet fired from a non mil spec AR to bounce off of any self respecting bad guy.

Sarcasm aside, I don't think you provided enough information to get useful feedback. The Colt is built to a higher level of quality, there's no doubt you get what you pay for in this case. I bought the S&W because the Colt wasn't worth the 90% price premium for my situation ($515 for my S&W vs $981 for a Colt 6920).

Never has the first piece of equipment I bought in a new hobby been the piece of equipment I wanted after gaining some experience in that hobby. Thus, I voted for the S&W in your poll. If you don't like ARs, you'll have spent less on the S&W. If you love ARs, you'll use the S&W until you develop an opinion on exactly what you want in an AR, and will have spent less money gaining that opinion.
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Far out and solid. Number one on the charts and climbing higher all the time.
 
ob3ygiant said:
Can you please tell me where you're seeing Colt LE6920s for $750? I'd snap one of those today...best I've seen recently is around $950 at Buds.
I'm going to keep my eyes open for any amazing sales over next two months and will go with a Colt unless I find an incredible deal on a BCM.

There should be a decent supply of ARs due to the BHO and Hillary scare..my hope is that by Summer and after SCOTUS Gorsuch is seated, prices will fall a bit more.

Thanks to all for your input and personal experience with these firearms.
Click to expand...

It was on sale, can't remember where though. Buds, Gunjoker, etc. BUT, internet gun prices are like 40 dollar Anderson lowers, which turn into 75 dollar Andersons by the time you actually get them. You have to take shipping and FFL transfer fees into account. Shipping on a rifle is usually 25, and the cheapest transfer where I live is 25. So by the time you actually got it you would be in it for 800. Still beats paying sales tax, though, especially since your LGS is probably charging close to a grand for 6920s, if they even have any in stock.

BTW, have you considered buying used? There are quite a few high quality ARs on Armslist right now, so finding something acceptable in your area or from someone who will ship shouldn't be difficult. I see Colts, BCMs, Daniel Defense, the very occasional LMT...all fantastic rifles. I even see the occasional Knights Armament. I also see people selling used uppers, some brand new. People will buy a DD or BCM and SBR it right away, selling the upper. Same with Colt. People buy 6920s all the time to turn them into M-forgeries with 14.5'' uppers, selling the 16'' upper for a song afterwards. You could totally build an Anderson lower then buy a nice upper second hand. I saw someone selling a 6920 upper a while back for 300. After the lower and a bolt from BCM, you would be looking at around 750 on a deal like that. Like I said before, if I were on a budget I would put my money into the bolt and barrel, and an A5 system on the lower. No real reason to buy a complete high end rifle.
 
Jackal said:
This means Colt charges $225 for Mbus rear sight and a handguard/stock...... Yeah, I'd get the OEM model.
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Midway - $202 plus shipping . I would rather buy the gun ready to shoot if I wanted Magpul furniture . It comes with more Magpul furniture than handguard & stock .
 
red rick said:
Midway - $202 plus shipping . I would rather buy the gun ready to shoot if I wanted Magpul furniture . It comes with more Magpul furniture than handguard & stock .
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Ouch, the stock, grip, handguard and rear sight are only $160 from Aim surplus shipped. All can be had for less on sale online quite regularly as well. Right now in this market, paying full price for anything AR related would be silly.
 
Again, go on Armslist. I just got a like new SOPMOD stock for 60 bucks. People left and right are selling Magpul furniture sets, backup irons, you name it. Note: even if the listing says no shipping they will likely ship to you, so don't be afraid to ask. People just don't check the shipping box when they create the ad, so Armslist automatically puts no shipping on it. Most people are happy to ship parts to you because it saves them the hassle of driving all over town to meet someone just to sell a 20 dollar handguard. Also don't be afraid to bicker with them. Most people are willing to take 20% less than the ad price if you put money in their paypal account that day and don't make them drive to Timbuktu. Also ask for shipping to be included in the price, most people go for it.
 
My first thought on reading this post was "what are the specs on the M&P?"

I normally don't play the AR specs game, I don't care if my rifle's buffer tube is 6061 aluminum or 7075. But I'd care a lot more if I was dropping $1000 on a gun. With the Colt, there's some "paying for the pony", but you're also getting a legit military-grade rifle. With the M&P, I don't know what the specs are, but I'd be worried that I was buying a $700 gun and $200 of plastic and rubber furniture.
 
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