Colt National Match Pair in .45 and .39 Special "Mid Range Ammo"

[phoglund]

I saw a set like this in a presentation box at a local gun show over the weekend. They each had two magazines and looked to be in nice shape. I'd never heard of a 1911 that fired .38 special and was unsure what "Mid Range Ammo" meant. The guy was asking $2,000 for them. To be honest if I'd have had the money available I might have purchased them although I must admit I didn't have a clue if that would have been considered a reasonable deal or not. They just looked nice!

Anybody know more about a matched set like this?

 

[dirtdog]

I think you mean 38 Super

 

[Spartacus451]

There are a few 1911s in .38 special out there. Special conversions or custom built usually. I don't know if this is one of them.

 

[HammerBite]

I have a Colt National Match in .38 Special. Wadcutters only. Nothing custom about it, it was a production gun for bullseye shooters.

 

[bannockburn]

phoglund

The Colt National Match in .38 Special were produced in limited numbers from 1960 to 1971. S&W also had the .38 Master Model 52, for the same purpose. It was designed to fire the Mid-range .38 Special wadcutter bullet, and magazine capacity was limited to 5 rounds.

 

[dirtdog]

I'll be darned.

Thanks guys

 

[wditto]

super SUPER accurate....

 

[ButchG17]

They even made some for the Army Marksmanship Unit that fired a special .38 wadcutter load, the case had the semi-rim like the .38 super cartridge. I suspect they later found that they could use standard .38 special cases just as reliably.



Butch

 

[BigG]

If you get one of the factory stock .38 AMU Colts you will have a nice piece of memorabilia with a fancy price tag.

 

[Deanimator]

I think you mean 38 Super

No he didn't. He meant .38 Special loaded flush or slightly below the case mouth with a 148gr. lead wadcutter. Typical load is 2.8-3.0gr. of Bullseye.

I've got a Giles .38 Special M1911 converted FROM a .38 Super. It's probably the most accurate centerfire semi-auto I've ever owned.

Some guns are basically retarded blowbacks with chambers designed to slow the extraction of the case. My Giles is a short recoil gun with a link and locking lugs just like any normal M1911.

 

[ButchG17]

And here's my S&W Model 52:

 

[Spartacus451]

It's a shame they don't make them anymore. It would be nice to shoot full wad cutters with a decent single action trigger and no cocking.

 

[BigG]

Not to take away from the Coltness of this thread but the Model 52 S&W is frighteningly accurate. Just like shooting a .22.

 

[Archer1945]

Don't know about the 1911 38spc but I think the S&W Model 52 is still available from the S&W Custom Shop

 

[Rod B]

Another S&W52-2, one of my favorite guns.

Too bad that S&W stopped producing these in the early '90s

 

[cdrt]

Clark Custom Guns (www.clarkcustomguns.com) still makes a 1911 .38 Special conversion. It uses the same mags as the Colt Gold Cup in .38 Special. High Standard just finished a production run of Colt type magazines.

My Clark .38 Special (built in 1984 from a Series 70 .38 Super) is still a tack-driver.

 

[Leanwolf]

"HAMMERBITE - I have a Colt National Match in .38 Special. Wadcutters only. Nothing custom about it, it was a production gun for bullseye shooters."

Yep,Colt certainly made the Govt. Model in .38 Spec.

One of my friends and hunting partner owns two of them. One is new-in-the-box, all papers, etc. That one is worth some real $$$$. The other is in excellent condition, but doesn't have the box and papers. Very nice shooter, too.

As for a Colt Nat'l Match .45 ACP, and a Colt Govt. in .38 Spec., for $2,000??? If they are in excellent condition, I'd pay that much for them, especially if they had the original boxes.

L.W.

 

[phoglund]

Leanwolf,

They were in what I'd call Very Good condition although I didn't inspect them very carefully. They were in what appeared to be a presentation box. The felt lining was a bit rough but the box appeared solid. There were two magazines for each, one in each gun and one each in slots inside the box. I have the sellers card. If you want his contact information shoot me a PM. (He is in Cody Wyoming)

 

[BigG]

They were in what I'd call Very Good condition although I didn't inspect them very carefully.

If you mean very good as in pristine, immaculate, unfired, which some people do, that is very different from NRA very good which is pretty doggy, like a well used gun with bluing missing and some dings. What I'm saying is, the price would be about double if it were the first definition rather than the second.

 

[phoglund]

My "Very Good" in this instance means 93-97% bluing used but not abused firearms. After reading the NRA "Modern Gun Condition Standards" I would say these guns are much closer to Excellent than Very Good.

I'd of course not go on my cursory inspection but contact the seller and get some pictures made available. I am no professional judge of firearm condition nor do I pretend to be.

 

[BigG]

Something like a Colt which is collectible can hinge on some very fine gradations in condition. Almost imperceptible.

I don't know whether the .45 would be collectible but the .38 Special could be. Boxes and docs become a big factor for the big bucks guns.

 

[mnw42]

I've got an old Super .38 that was converted to .38 special sitting on my bench right now. The guy got it from his uncle and discovered that .38 Supers wouldn't chamber. He thought something was wrong.

The barrel bushing is extremely tight, and a little buggered up from someone's ham fisted attempt to disassemble it. If shot it once to function test and all I can say is: WOW! This thing is scary accurate and no recoil to speak of!

I've read that many of these .38 spcl guns were converted to strait blow back, but I'm not sure. Anyone know how to tune one of these? 1911Tunner, are you out there?

 

[phoglund]

I'm not a Colt gun guy at all. The closest I have is Argentine "Sistema Colt Modelo 1927" From what I've seen in various places older original standard Colt 1911 pistols seem to be easily $1,000 guns. I thought these being a matched set of National Match Pistols in a presentation case in two calibers for $2,000 to be a fairly good deal. I just don't happen to have $2K to spend right now and am not knowledgeable enough to know if that is a reasonable price or not.

 

[BigG]

I think you should get more knowledgeable about Colts if you are going to spend $1,000 apiece. They might be worth it, but more likely around $6 - 700 apiece might be closer for about 97%.

It all depends on the vintage. Also, a matched set in my language does not mean similar pistols. It means a pair with the same serial number with a different prefix or suffix for each caliber. I have a set of matched Colts like this, for WWII commemorative and each has the same 4 digits followed by either ETO or PTO.

Of course if you are just buying them because you like them and you have the money, all I said can be disregarded. I have bought guns I liked with no regard for the price because I knew they were going to be keepers.