Conceal and Carry in Schools!

[HorseSoldier]

Just think of some of the administrators and possibly teachers you have had or known through the years - do you want them toting a gun around your kids?

We don't base hiring for teachers on suitability to bear arms or make deadly force decisions, so you will inherently get the good with the bad. But the idea isn't that everyone who is a teacher, or even the majority, have to be armed. It doesn't take much to make a target harder for an active shooter than the "no security, but we usually lock the doors" approach a lot of school districts adhere to presently.

 

[JVaughn]

It's not the business of the school board, parents, or principal who they "want" carrying or who they feel is qualified. Nor is it their right to decide which ones or how many in each school will be armed. It is a violation of the 2A to tell any of the teachers or staff that they can't carry at the school. No one needs to know who is armed and who isn't; that's part of the reason the 2A works, everyone assumes everyones else is armed, because no one knows.

 

[okiewita40]

Here where I live the schools have a resource officer. since they are already employed by the school and have no teaching duties. Why not arm them? About all they would have to do is go through a reserve police academy given at a local PD.

I think would work well. Plus they get to know the local officer's well. Would make communication very effective.

 

[mljdeckard]

Where I went to school, over half the faculty (females included) were various combinations of veterans, guard members, and gunsmiths. I wouldn't have minded with THAT set of faculty, but I don't know about now.

 

[Koreth]

As a high school teacher I can tell you the list of staff I wouldn't want to be carrying a gun in our school is long and distinguished. On the other hand, there are 3 or 4 of us that I would trust to carry concealed and I think that would be enough to cover the whole campus and deal with any problems. Some of us really do care for our students, and they know it too. All our doors should be, but aren't always locked and security cameras never stopped anything.

I am curious. If concealed carry were to be permitted for that school, who do you think will the the first ones to do so? Those on your former list, or the latter?

 

[Wilfirt]

I teach high school. It is a rural school where most of the kids hunt and have guns.
We have a sheriff's deputy assigned to the school. He is here all day every day. Cushy assignment for him, he knows it and really minds his Ps&Qs to keep it. He has pepper sprayed a student or two and cuffed a few.
The simplest problem with teachers carrying has not been addressed.
In order for the weapon to be effective I have to have access to it. If I can reach it, a student can reach it. It is that simple. I do not want a gun within reach of any of my students. Few of them are dangerous, but most of them are irresponsible - even those that own guns and hunt. They are somebody else's kids and I do not know how they handle themselves around guns and will not gamble on it.
Please don't anyone say "carry it on your hip" or other such nonsense. I simply will not walk around all day with a gun in my pocket or such. Many reasons for that.

 

[rtroha]

Please don't anyone say "carry it on your hip" or other such nonsense. I simply will not walk around all day with a gun in my pocket or such. Many reasons for that.

Just because you don't want to carry doesn't mean other faculty/staff wouldn't be happy to do so. I'm not a teacher, I'm just the dude who fixes all the computers, smartboards, projectors and AV problems. I would carry in my school if given the legal opportunity to do so.

 

[tomrkba]

Wilfirt is part of the problem. His attitude is very dangerous and his students pay the price in their education.

 

[TarDevil]

My best friend is a school teacher and she shoots with me frequently (or, back when we could find ammo!!). We've discussed getting her a gun and we've both agreed that for now small for concealment isn't necessary because so much of her time is spent in a "gun free zone." Her's will most likely be a full size gun which she will carry in her vehicle on out of town and night trips.

She would very much like the ability to carry at school... not because she's an avid gun person, but because we've often discussed her school's policies and procedures in the event of a lock-down or armed intruder... and she acknowledges that for all the school's efforts she and her kids will still be nothing more than ducks in a barrel and would prefer the chance, however big or small, to protect her kids.

 

[Fryerpower]

My wife is a school teacher and a Handgun Permit Holder (HCP - Tennessee's version of a CCW permit). I don't see armed teachers as active hunters of an active shooter. I see them as hunker down and defend their kids/wing of the building. They don't have to be hunters. They have to be roadblocks.

Layers of Protection. They are not the whole answer. They are part of the answer, much like a lockable solid wood door, a heavy oak table, a fire extinguisher set off and thrown into the hallway, etc.

Jim

 

[Mark13]

Mass murder in schools is so rare that worrying about a widespread plan to arm teachers K-12 is never going to gain traction.

The simplest, most effective anti gun control strategy is to get gun-free zones exposed for the fraud that they are.

 

[mljdeckard]

Wilfirt-

You are UNWILLING to carry in a way that is safe and effective. That is YOUR choice. Everyone who carries has to be attentive and practice good retention skills. It doesn't matter if you're a housewife in Salt Lake, a high school teacher, or a soldier in Iraq. Millions of us do it every day.

 

[Wilfirt]

You know what - I had hoped for some common sense but I don't see it here.
I am a strong supporter of the 2d Amendment.
However, I do not spend my time daydreaming that I may be some sort of action hero some day.
I am not a paranoid that thinks that I am so unsafe everywhere that I must have a pistol stuck in my pocket.
Those are the mindsets that endanger the 2d Amend and give anti-gun people all the material they need.
Over and out.
Obviously we have little common ground here.

 

[mljdeckard]

No, you're clairvoyant. You know where and when something bad is going to happen, so you just use your crystal ball to know when to strap it on, right?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Look at it this way -- we are forced by law to send our children to the government schools. That being the case, the government employees who have our children in their care should be required to protect and defend them with the same determination we would show.

 

[HorseSoldier]

^^^^

This.

I'm no lawyer, but it seems to me that in a situation like Sandy Hook ("well, we think the doors were locked, so, uh, he must have gotten in before we locked them . . .") there is a mountain of civil liability for any school district that isn't cleaving hard and fast to whatever best practices for this sort of stuff are deemed to be.

Mass murder in schools is so rare that worrying about a widespread plan to arm teachers K-12 is never going to gain traction.

So are fires in school, but we have detailed plans on how to react and drill students and faculty on how to respond to them several times a year. Given that mass murders in schools occur with about, or possibly higher, frequency as fire fatalities in schools, it's insane that we wouldn't at least devote as much energy and thought to dealing with that contingency, one way or another.

(Disclaimer -- Where I live, the schools do active shooter drills at about the same frequency as they do fire drills. Sandy Hook and its aftermath have made me dismally aware of how far out on the leading edge we are with this topic compared to many other parts of the country.)

 

[Mark13]

HorseSoldier, I understand what you are saying, and I am only talking about the difficulty politically and practically, of arming teachers.

Eliminate the lie of the gun free zone, and;
Make it so that a school administrator(s) may or may not be carrying a concealed weapon, the attraction of the school as an easy target will evaporate.

 

[mljdeckard]

^^ I think in SOME places it will. Some states are much more likely to have people doing it than others, whether or not it's legal.

 

[Indifferent]

Just think of some of the administrators and possibly teachers you have had or known through the years - do you want them toting a gun around your kids?

If you can't trust them with a gun, why are you trusting them with your child in the first place?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Mass murder in schools is so rare that worrying about a widespread plan to arm teachers K-12 is never going to gain traction.

Yes, but the Left is ignoring that when it comes to promoting more "gun control."

The simplest, most effective anti gun control strategy is to get gun-free zones exposed for the fraud that they are.

Amen.

And to those teachers who say, "I don't want to carry." I say, "Then get another job. Those children are in your care, and you have no right to be negligent when it comes to protecting them."