BridgeWalker
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I read that the same way you did--the op clarified a couple of posts up.
Concealed carry and the anti-gun wife
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I read that the same way you did--the op clarified a couple of posts up.
Airman193SOS
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My wife was, and to some degree still is, not too keen on my gun ownership. At first she was so reticent that she wouldn't even discuss it. Then I got my other two, which she consented to after I persuaded her to allow it. Then, one day, when she was angry at me about some petty something or other, I told her that if she went to the range she would blow off some steam and feel better while causing no damage to anything, including our relationship.
So we go to the range, and she's scared. Not just scared, petrified. To the point of paralysis petrified. The only other time that the had ever handled a weapon of any kind was in the Navy. Her family positively hates guns of any sort. So I told her to stand behind me while I loaded my SP101 with 158-grain .357 Magnums. I shoot one handed, and I demonstrated no particular difficulty in doing so, so she thought that she could do it if I could do it one handed if I loaded it with .38 Special.
I loaded the weapon up, taught her the proper grip, stance, and aiming techniques, and lo and behold, she started punching holes in paper. What came next, though, is something I never expected: with a particularly sheepish look on her face, she said "That was fun. Can I do it again?" Jackpot!
Now she's fine with it, as long as I am exceptionally careful (we have a 5-year-old boy) and I keep the two that I am not currently carrying locked up in my safe. That is the extent of her reluctance, concern for our little boy. Sometimes she objects to my politics, but at least she understands where my ideas come from better now. Sometimes she even asks when we can go out to the range again, and believe you me, I am sure to accommodate.
One down, millions to go, but it's a start.
So we go to the range, and she's scared. Not just scared, petrified. To the point of paralysis petrified. The only other time that the had ever handled a weapon of any kind was in the Navy. Her family positively hates guns of any sort. So I told her to stand behind me while I loaded my SP101 with 158-grain .357 Magnums. I shoot one handed, and I demonstrated no particular difficulty in doing so, so she thought that she could do it if I could do it one handed if I loaded it with .38 Special.
I loaded the weapon up, taught her the proper grip, stance, and aiming techniques, and lo and behold, she started punching holes in paper. What came next, though, is something I never expected: with a particularly sheepish look on her face, she said "That was fun. Can I do it again?" Jackpot!
Now she's fine with it, as long as I am exceptionally careful (we have a 5-year-old boy) and I keep the two that I am not currently carrying locked up in my safe. That is the extent of her reluctance, concern for our little boy. Sometimes she objects to my politics, but at least she understands where my ideas come from better now. Sometimes she even asks when we can go out to the range again, and believe you me, I am sure to accommodate.
One down, millions to go, but it's a start.
v35
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As a physician and CEO it sounds as though you are, if not wealthy, at least pretty well off. The best part about being well off is that it tends to isolate you from the seedier parts of society. It also enables you to delegate many menial tasks to someone else - toilet clogged, call a plumber. Car runs rough, call a mechanic. Or just buy another. You can have groceries delivered or meals cooked for you. You never have to get your "hands dirty". All this is great but it tends to color one's perception about self-reliance, which is the reason many self-reliant people elect to carry.
For your wife guns are repugnant. They have no place in her clean and predictable world of breakfast meetings with bottled water served by eager assistants. After the evening workout at the health club, she's accustomed to driving her late model Lexus into your three car garage then relieving your baby's nanny. The thought of stopping off at the range for a half hour to hone her skills just doesn't compute. That's cowboy stuff.
It can be very difficult to understand that there is another world beyond yours. It's much more common, but you never see it or have to think about it. That's the world from which violent predators emerge. They would not understand your world any more than you could understand theirs. When their world intersects with yours, you may need to get your "hands dirty". Quick.
Oh and
For your wife guns are repugnant. They have no place in her clean and predictable world of breakfast meetings with bottled water served by eager assistants. After the evening workout at the health club, she's accustomed to driving her late model Lexus into your three car garage then relieving your baby's nanny. The thought of stopping off at the range for a half hour to hone her skills just doesn't compute. That's cowboy stuff.
It can be very difficult to understand that there is another world beyond yours. It's much more common, but you never see it or have to think about it. That's the world from which violent predators emerge. They would not understand your world any more than you could understand theirs. When their world intersects with yours, you may need to get your "hands dirty". Quick.
Oh and
Sorry to break it to you but she is 100% likely to die, guns or not. So are you by the way. Until that day comes I'd advocate being a little proactive in choosing the time and place.
shouldifail
Member
Ok, I decided to go ahead and play the devils advocate here....
from the sounds of it, you and your wife are very headstrong. Maybe even both have the "my way or the highway" attitude. I don't know you personally, so I can only speculate.
As you were going through the process of obtaining your ccw, buying a pistol, and deciding to carry whenever you wanted, did you ever mention it to your wife?? Did you include her in the process enough as to let her voice her opinion on the matter? If you came home and sprung this on her without her knowledge of this at all, I can see why she might be pissed.
If you coming home with a pistol on your hip was the first that she'd seen or heard of it, then she probably is quite upset that you carry a gun...and I'd be willing to bet it probably has nothing to do with the gun.
She may be upset that you didn't ask her what she thought about you obtaining the means to defend your family against the possibility of a threat.
She may feel that you think she is incompetent, thus needs you to be her protector (not out of love but out of necessity). She may be upset that you didn't give her the chance to object to your decision BEFORE you went through with it.
Is it possible that if you talked to your wife (or possibly write her a letter) explaining your position as to why you wanted your ccw, and also acknowledging her right to her own feelings about the matter, that you could reach some common ground?? Maybe she says ok to carrying so long as it goes in a quick access safe once at home??
My thought is that the issue is more with her feeling like she was left out of the equasion, than with you wanting to carry concealed.
Again, this is all speculation...
All I know is that if I decide that I'm going to do something, my wife is the first person I talk about it with. Now my wife and I don't necessarily see eye to eye on everything, but by maintaining an open line of communication and dialogue we avoid almost all conflict.
just my $.02
from the sounds of it, you and your wife are very headstrong. Maybe even both have the "my way or the highway" attitude. I don't know you personally, so I can only speculate.
As you were going through the process of obtaining your ccw, buying a pistol, and deciding to carry whenever you wanted, did you ever mention it to your wife?? Did you include her in the process enough as to let her voice her opinion on the matter? If you came home and sprung this on her without her knowledge of this at all, I can see why she might be pissed.
If you coming home with a pistol on your hip was the first that she'd seen or heard of it, then she probably is quite upset that you carry a gun...and I'd be willing to bet it probably has nothing to do with the gun.
She may be upset that you didn't ask her what she thought about you obtaining the means to defend your family against the possibility of a threat.
She may feel that you think she is incompetent, thus needs you to be her protector (not out of love but out of necessity). She may be upset that you didn't give her the chance to object to your decision BEFORE you went through with it.
Is it possible that if you talked to your wife (or possibly write her a letter) explaining your position as to why you wanted your ccw, and also acknowledging her right to her own feelings about the matter, that you could reach some common ground?? Maybe she says ok to carrying so long as it goes in a quick access safe once at home??
My thought is that the issue is more with her feeling like she was left out of the equasion, than with you wanting to carry concealed.
Again, this is all speculation...
All I know is that if I decide that I'm going to do something, my wife is the first person I talk about it with. Now my wife and I don't necessarily see eye to eye on everything, but by maintaining an open line of communication and dialogue we avoid almost all conflict.
just my $.02
Crow1108
Member
I'm in the same boat as some of ya'll, but with a fairly unique twist: my wife is Japanese. She never, ever grew up around guns. I really wish there was a way I could get her into shooting, because it's something I enjoy and it would be awesome if her and I could enjoy it together, but it's proving impossible so far. She freaked when she first moved here with me (she was in Japan while I was here waiting for her visa to go through) and found my Sig in my nightstand and my AR under my bed. Slowly she's beginning to come to terms that I won't give up my guns, and that there are guns in our apartment. I've told her several times (especially when I got my CWP) that the only reason I had them was to protect her.
This is exactly the reason why when I first met the gal I later married (20 years next August) our first date was to Church. the second date was to the RANGE.
She knew up front how important firearms and 2nd Amendment activism is to me! For our first anniversary she got me a rifle. For the 2nd a Dillon Reloader.
I have known too many friends whose marriages crumbled over this silly little thing. Worse none of these poor guys ever saw it coming. In more than a few cases some of these folks were wrong on other stuff too. Just because somebody says their a Christian doesn't automatically imply conservative in politics and pro-gun.
She knew up front how important firearms and 2nd Amendment activism is to me! For our first anniversary she got me a rifle. For the 2nd a Dillon Reloader.
I have known too many friends whose marriages crumbled over this silly little thing. Worse none of these poor guys ever saw it coming. In more than a few cases some of these folks were wrong on other stuff too. Just because somebody says their a Christian doesn't automatically imply conservative in politics and pro-gun.
Deanimator
Member
And if he IS attacked and murdered while disarmed and helpless, he won't have to listen to any of her nonsense anymore...
Deanimator
Member
Seems like that Taylor guy from the Redskins was attractive ENOUGH the other night...
yesit'sloaded
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- 1,662
" a conservative is a liberal who has been mugged"
The only way my Wife will leave me is If I were to cheat on her.
She HATES Hunting!! When I go hunting and or kill something she'll be mad for a few minutes and yadda yadda and say "How can you just kill it". Then it passes we eat dinner, go out, talk and kiss and are happy and thats that.
A wife should never tell you she'll leave you if you do this or don't do that. Thats not love thats control and power.
She HATES Hunting!! When I go hunting and or kill something she'll be mad for a few minutes and yadda yadda and say "How can you just kill it". Then it passes we eat dinner, go out, talk and kiss and are happy and thats that.
A wife should never tell you she'll leave you if you do this or don't do that. Thats not love thats control and power.
Deanimator
Member
As I said to my female cousin in Apartheid Chicago before my recent hunting trip,
"It's easier to eat if you do."
Ed Ames
Member
That's why I was talking about general threats vs. specific threats. The world presents us with both.
General threats are the crimes of opportunity, the wrong place/wrong time events, the things that could happen to anyone. Being mugged, a natural disaster, rape (usually for females), etc.
Specific threats are threats that target you as an individual. They may target you because you are a famous person, or because you have access to valuables, or because you pissed off a crazy person. They may get your name from a registry (e.g. of CCW holders), from the news (a "local business spotlight" type news bit showing an attractive CEO with new and profitable products), from professional contact (e.g. criminal lawyers who can be targeted by criminals they prosecute or defend; doctors can be in this group too), social contact (the athelete who is still buddies with his gang-member childhood buddies) or just about anything else.
In this case the OP and his wife probably have relatively low general threat levels. They face different general threats. There's a laundry list of opportunity crimes that target more women than men, but she is in a generally safer environment (CEOs typically deal with only a few people, most of them rather heavily -- compared to most people you deal with -- screened employees). He deals more with the unscrened (or reverse screened -- criminals are more likely than the general population to end up sick and injured) public in more emotionally charged circumstances. As far as specific threat levels, he's got some concerns. His name is in registries as part of the legal drug establishment. He lives in a country where prohibition has created an extremely profitable black market for drugs. That's a bad combination. He may also be making himself a target in other ways. His wife likewise has specific threats to worry about. Recently fired employees, people harmed by defective products or services, people who think she has access to wealth, the list could be arbitrarily long.
This is a slight tangent but comes around to specific threats and CEOs. One of the few times I've considered carrying a gun at the office appropriate was just after I had to let an employee go. Good worker gone bad over the last year. He was also skilled in martial arts but that didn't concern me... he had always been a good guy even when his work started suffering. Then it came time for him to leave and he wanted to take a bunch of company files off "his" computer and delete them. I said no, the computers are company property and we had to inspect them. Call me tomorrow and we'll talk about baby pictures or whatever. Within an hour he was calling my other employees with lines like, "did you tell on me? If I find out you did...." and by the next day he was coming around screaming about how he wanted "his" files. Turns out he had been working on side projects in the office and didn't have any backups. He was screaming that we were stealing from him, the files were his, and so on. Problem was that the files he wanted were source code for a product that would compete with ours. We were suddenly faced with an angry ex-employee, potentially dangerous even if not armed, in our lobby. So, what do you do? Call the cops on the guy? If we started down that road it would have turned irreversibly ugly. No, we talked to him, worked out a compromize. He started claiming that the files were a school project (I say BS) and we had him sign an agreement that they were owned by us and licensed to him for educational use only. He walked away thinking he could cheat and sell the code anyway. We walked away knowing that if he did manage to sell a competing product we could win in court. Nobody gained a criminal record. If I hadn't had a gun at the office I couldn't have afforded to be tolerant. I would've had to call the cops as soon as he showed up. But, more to the point, if he had been just a little bit further out of control a call to the cops wouldn't have done much good. That's the sort of position a CEO can find themselves in with no warning at all.
Day 8
Scene: Bathroom in the morning. I'm in the shower, she's doing her thing.
I don't have time for a full transcript, but here are some of my quotes:
"Did you know that you are two times more likely to be attacked by an alligator than a concealed carry holder in Florida?"
"Did you know that a concealed carry holder is sixteen times less likely to committ a crime than someone who doesn't have a permit?"
"Oh, you're using Kellerman again?" Chuckles. "Were you aware that the study was seriously flawed and that 87% of the deaths were from SUICIDE?" Silence ensues.
"Did you know that you are less likely--not more likely to be killed--if a victim uses a deadly weapon to defend themselves?"
"No, all this information isn't from gun websites--it's from public records--you are welcome to research it yourself."
"You're right--you don't have enough time to research it--because it would take forever to find the answer you are looking for."
At that point she left the bathroom.
I feel that I now have complete control of the academic aspect of the debate. I also told her that I am documenting the dates when she verbally abuses me--calling me "mentally ill," for going about armed. I don't think that I'm going to hear her use that or anything from Kellerman again.
------------------
Also, in reference to an above post, we live a very ordinary life financially. We change our own oil, brakes, etc., do our own yard work, produce much of our food from our large garden, and canning. We bury leftovers in the garden. We don't have a maid. We don't belong to a country club. We don't drink wine. We don't like fancy clothes or jewlery. Our vehicles are under 20 and 30K respectively. We live in a normal home. We just save--a lot.
Scene: Bathroom in the morning. I'm in the shower, she's doing her thing.
I don't have time for a full transcript, but here are some of my quotes:
"Did you know that you are two times more likely to be attacked by an alligator than a concealed carry holder in Florida?"
"Did you know that a concealed carry holder is sixteen times less likely to committ a crime than someone who doesn't have a permit?"
"Oh, you're using Kellerman again?" Chuckles. "Were you aware that the study was seriously flawed and that 87% of the deaths were from SUICIDE?" Silence ensues.
"Did you know that you are less likely--not more likely to be killed--if a victim uses a deadly weapon to defend themselves?"
"No, all this information isn't from gun websites--it's from public records--you are welcome to research it yourself."
"You're right--you don't have enough time to research it--because it would take forever to find the answer you are looking for."
At that point she left the bathroom.
I feel that I now have complete control of the academic aspect of the debate. I also told her that I am documenting the dates when she verbally abuses me--calling me "mentally ill," for going about armed. I don't think that I'm going to hear her use that or anything from Kellerman again.
------------------
Also, in reference to an above post, we live a very ordinary life financially. We change our own oil, brakes, etc., do our own yard work, produce much of our food from our large garden, and canning. We bury leftovers in the garden. We don't have a maid. We don't belong to a country club. We don't drink wine. We don't like fancy clothes or jewlery. Our vehicles are under 20 and 30K respectively. We live in a normal home. We just save--a lot.
Johnnybgood
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Check out
http://www.gunfacts.info It will refute all the anti claims WITH REFERENCES. Facts not emotions.
http://www.gunfacts.info It will refute all the anti claims WITH REFERENCES. Facts not emotions.
Honestly, this doesn't sound like a very happy marriage to me. Maybe you and she would be better off getting separated and finding more compatible partners? When she called you "mentally ill" was she serious? If so, not a good thing either. If not, "documenting it" sounds pretty severe.
tinygnat219
Member
My wife thinks I am a little "rabid" on the subject, but accepts it just the same. When she does ask "why?" I simply point out the police blotter showing the latest sexual assault or rape victim that tends to come in spurts in our area.
In fact, just recently near our neighborhood there has been a rapist who wears a ski mask, comes up behind women walking by themselves then drags them into nearby bushes or other cover where he commits his nefarious deed. He tends to strike early in the morning, but that doesn't mean he won't strike at night. The less than a block from home bit got her interest up.
Looks like we will be attending a firearm safety class together (she wants me there for support).
In fact, just recently near our neighborhood there has been a rapist who wears a ski mask, comes up behind women walking by themselves then drags them into nearby bushes or other cover where he commits his nefarious deed. He tends to strike early in the morning, but that doesn't mean he won't strike at night. The less than a block from home bit got her interest up.
Looks like we will be attending a firearm safety class together (she wants me there for support).
Im283
Member
this thread reminds me of a song Hank III sings that is about a wife threatening her husband to quit drinking or she is going to leave. In the song he decides to ratchet up the drinking to see "if she would really choose". The song goes on about how he is happy she finally left as he "was about to drink myself to death". The fact of that matter is he was happy she left and he kept on doing what she threatened him about even though he was not all that excited about drinking anymore.
Now back to the topic at hand...
I hope you stay "excited" about carrying and doing what you know in your heart is the right thing. Keep on protecting yourself and your family even if they do not see the good it does.
BobCat
Member
I know a guy whose wife threatened to leave him if he did not stop drinking. He stopped drinking. She left him anyway.
Is this really about your carrying a sidearm?
Is this really about your carrying a sidearm?
dasmi
Member
I'm not married, so I haven't chimed in with advice, but that's the first question that went through my head too. It stinks of serious control issues. It's got nothing to do with your gun.
Your wife and my wife sound an awful lot alike.
The one argument/statement that I made to her that she didn't have an answer to was: I hope that from your perspective I keep losing the argument, because the day I win the argument is the day something bad has happened to my family. I will keep carrying and keep losing the argument.
She isn't happy about it, but then she really doesn't say that much about it either now. To some degree the convict that escaped from DOC guards at the hospital emergency room and then ran through our back alley easement, which caused all the dogs to start barking at 11:30pm, which caused her to go out on the deck in her nightgown to see what the dogs were barking at kind of got her to thinking as well.
The one argument/statement that I made to her that she didn't have an answer to was: I hope that from your perspective I keep losing the argument, because the day I win the argument is the day something bad has happened to my family. I will keep carrying and keep losing the argument.
She isn't happy about it, but then she really doesn't say that much about it either now. To some degree the convict that escaped from DOC guards at the hospital emergency room and then ran through our back alley easement, which caused all the dogs to start barking at 11:30pm, which caused her to go out on the deck in her nightgown to see what the dogs were barking at kind of got her to thinking as well.
From a quote on page 1:
I'd caution over making ultimatums... although it sounds like both of you already have. They usually backfire and end up causing hurt feelings/bitterness with both parties.
Oh, and the bit about feeling like you have "complete control" over any aspect of your marriage...?! ***? I think you've (both of you) got some growing up to do in the relationship department.
The only way to get through this is to talk, talk and more talk. Don't give up on your principles, you should definitely still carry, but you two have got to talk this thing (and other issues within your marriage I suspect) through.
That's basically what I had to do... even though she knew 3 people that were killed through random acts of violence in the space of about 3 years. Scary stuff.
I'd caution over making ultimatums... although it sounds like both of you already have. They usually backfire and end up causing hurt feelings/bitterness with both parties.
Oh, and the bit about feeling like you have "complete control" over any aspect of your marriage...?! ***? I think you've (both of you) got some growing up to do in the relationship department.
The only way to get through this is to talk, talk and more talk. Don't give up on your principles, you should definitely still carry, but you two have got to talk this thing (and other issues within your marriage I suspect) through.
stevereno1
Member
Ask her how "inappropriate" it is to be beaten to the ground, bound, and raped, while her husband bleeds to death from a gunshot wound. I know that the statement is disturbing, but so is being victomized by a crackhead.
Does your wife allow and understand the utility of having guns in the house for home protection?
If so, just explain to her that concealed carry simply extends that safety net further, beyond the house. It follows logically. If she doesn't even like guns at home, you have a bigger problem.
When we first met, my wife hated guns. Now, she has her own, has taken courses, and doesn't mind me carrying. You know what changed her mind? FEAR. There was an unexplained double murder/robbery near where we lived, and the perps were still at large. *She* was the one that asked me to have my .357 accessible in a drawer, even when I wasn't home.
That was the beginning of her turn around...
ETA: My wife also has a CHL now, but she doesn't use it.
Everyone mentions showing your wife The Armed Citizen. Hell, show her People magazine. The woman and daughters who were killed in the CT break-in? Wouldn't it have been nice if dad was carrying. I know it was in their home, but that story hits home emotionally, and shows that violent crime can happen to anyone, anywhere.
Also, if it helps, you can tell your wife my story and inform her that I'm a physician. There must be a lot of crazy docs running around. We have several at our hospital that love guns.
If so, just explain to her that concealed carry simply extends that safety net further, beyond the house. It follows logically. If she doesn't even like guns at home, you have a bigger problem.
When we first met, my wife hated guns. Now, she has her own, has taken courses, and doesn't mind me carrying. You know what changed her mind? FEAR. There was an unexplained double murder/robbery near where we lived, and the perps were still at large. *She* was the one that asked me to have my .357 accessible in a drawer, even when I wasn't home.
That was the beginning of her turn around...
ETA: My wife also has a CHL now, but she doesn't use it.
Everyone mentions showing your wife The Armed Citizen. Hell, show her People magazine. The woman and daughters who were killed in the CT break-in? Wouldn't it have been nice if dad was carrying. I know it was in their home, but that story hits home emotionally, and shows that violent crime can happen to anyone, anywhere.
Also, if it helps, you can tell your wife my story and inform her that I'm a physician. There must be a lot of crazy docs running around. We have several at our hospital that love guns.
Jerry Morris
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I really can't offer advice on this particular incident.
One thing literally screamed into my mind. If my wife called me mentally deranged, a number of things would be triggered.
First I would ask, are you joking and if so, never do that again. It is inappropriate and insulting, If she was serious, it would cause me deep self introspection. Possibly with counseling. If I determined that I was not deranged, I would end the relationship, posthaste.
I have been married twice. The first was a sick relationship. I assume all guilt. I put up with it. And there was no shotgun involved in the wedding. Can't put it any plainer. I was wrong from day one. The second time still endures. This is Mrs. Right. We make a good team. We listen to each other and respect the opinions. It has been a good 17 years long.
Marriage is a partnership, one that requires Love and Respect. Power Games are not good here. Threats and intimidation are destructive.
I feel for you, guy. Been there, done that.
Jerry
One thing literally screamed into my mind. If my wife called me mentally deranged, a number of things would be triggered.
First I would ask, are you joking and if so, never do that again. It is inappropriate and insulting, If she was serious, it would cause me deep self introspection. Possibly with counseling. If I determined that I was not deranged, I would end the relationship, posthaste.
I have been married twice. The first was a sick relationship. I assume all guilt. I put up with it. And there was no shotgun involved in the wedding. Can't put it any plainer. I was wrong from day one. The second time still endures. This is Mrs. Right. We make a good team. We listen to each other and respect the opinions. It has been a good 17 years long.
Marriage is a partnership, one that requires Love and Respect. Power Games are not good here. Threats and intimidation are destructive.
I feel for you, guy. Been there, done that.
Jerry
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