Concealed Carry in Bear Country? 357 Mag, 41 Mag, or 45 ACP + P

Concealed Carry in Bear Country 357 Mag, 41 Mag, or 45 ACP +P

  • S&W 686+ 357 mag

    Votes: 46 44.2%

  • Taurus 415 41 mag

    Votes: 41 39.4%

  • Springfield XDM compact 45 acp+p

    Votes: 18 17.3%
  • Total voters
    104
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FFGColorado said:
If you have a CCW, and it's recognized in Tennessee, why not open carry?
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I have seen many hikers open carry in the Smokies. Part of it is I like concealed carry for self defense against 2 legged threats. The other is my pack design makes open carry harder than in the waist pocket. The waist belt hits to low for a waist holster. I would need to find a leg holster.
(I would highly recommend Osprey packs)
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As mentioned earlier I will have my EDC with me. I carry my LCP2 or 442 everyday. Hiking it's mainly the 442.
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The poll is coming in with either the 41 mag or 357 mag. I slip them into a sticky holster then pack pocket. I can also pocket carry them on short hikes when I don't need a pack. In the fall I can owb in a leather holster with a t shirt and long sleeve shirt on short hikes. Summer hiking just to hot. 20200717_131749.jpg
 
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WisBorn said:
They have black bears and have had bears attack humans and fatalities in the Smokies.
I also plan on hiking Yellowstone and have seen Grizzlies there in the past.
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I’ve lived within 45 minutes of the Smokies for 69 years. I can’t remember an instance where a bear attacked a person that didn’t provoke the bear. Usually someone tries to feed the bear a cookie and the bear swats the person and injured or kills them but this is rare. I remember a teacher trying to feed one a few years ago and the bear knocker he head off with one swat. Attacks are pretty much always because someone got too close or was feeding the bear. I’ve seen people do it and seen a photo of a tourist putting their child on the bears back.

If you want to see a bear up close and personal keep food in your pack where they can smell it. If they can detect food they’ll find you. Bears venture into Gatlinburg and wander into shops looking for food. I’m 45 minutes from the park and a bear was seen in my neighborhood. The even venture into the city, Knoxville downtown, looking for food. About two years ago one wandered into the Knoxville Zoo and climbed a fence into the bear habitat looking for food and companionship.

bears have gotten lazy and look for the easy food from campers and hikers and have destroyed a few cars looking for food.

Other than attracting a hungry bear your biggest danger is getting lost. Weather is unpredictable and changes quickly. It’s not unusual for hikers to be killed by lightning or get lost and die of exposure in colder weather.

As far as 2 legged critters, it’s extremely rare for there to be any problems on the trails.

Have fun! Be safe!
 
.38SuperMan said:
I’ve lived within 45 minutes of the Smokies for 69 years. I can’t remember an instance where a bear attacked a person that didn’t provoke the bear. Usually someone tries to feed the bear a cookie and the bear swats the person and injured or kills them but this is rare. I remember a teacher trying to feed one a few years ago and the bear knocker he head off with one swat. Attacks are pretty much always because someone got too close or was feeding the bear. I’ve seen people do it and seen a photo of a tourist putting their child on the bears back.

If you want to see a bear up close and personal keep food in your pack where they can smell it. If they can detect food they’ll find you. Bears venture into Gatlinburg and wander into shops looking for food. I’m 45 minutes from the park and a bear was seen in my neighborhood. The even venture into the city, Knoxville downtown, looking for food. About two years ago one wandered into the Knoxville Zoo and climbed a fence into the bear habitat looking for food and companionship.

bears have gotten lazy and look for the easy food from campers and hikers and have destroyed a few cars looking for food.

Other than attracting a hungry bear your biggest danger is getting lost. Weather is unpredictable and changes quickly. It’s not unusual for hikers to be killed by lightning or get lost and die of exposure in colder weather.

As far as 2 legged critters, it’s extremely rare for there to be any problems on the trails.

Have fun! Be safe!
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@.38SuperMan Thank you for your response. I envy you so close to the Smokies. My wife and I struggled with retiring in the Smokies or Myrtle Beach area. Myrtle Beach won only because of being close to places we like to travel to.The Smokies being one.

I agree with you about the almost none existant number of attacks - bear and 2 legged alike. I carry anytime that I legally can. A good habit to be in. My EDC 38 special +P 442 really is my primary.

I have attached a pdf on one of the fatal attacks.

Thank you for your response and safe hiking.
 

Attachments

  • fatalattack-smokies.pdf
    39.9 KB · Views: 14
In all the years And trips to the Smokies I’ve never seen anyone open carry. If I remember correctly it’s only been a few years since it was illegal to possess a firearm in the park.

For me, I’d rather carry bear spray for a couple of reasons. The bears aren’t aggressive unless they smell food and then they just want your food. Second, if you shoot a bear, you’re in serious trouble. Third, if you have a stray shot and hit another person you’re in even more trouble.

Your biggest threat from animals is wild bore and elk. Ok I’ll take it back about bears, if you bet between a momma bear and her cubs you might get hurt.

There are a lot of bore In there and they get big. I used to 4 wheel in the Cherokee National Forest and I’ve seen 400 pound bore taken out of there. I had just spotted a huckleberry bush several years ago while jeeping through an area. The bush was loaded with berries. I stopped and got out and walked around the bush to find a momma bore with her piglets. Fortunately we were both taken by surprise and both of us turned and ran different directions. But, this was too close for comfort and could easily have gone the other way.

Elk can be very dangerous as well especially if you threaten them or endanger their females or young. they can run fast and they’re huge.

I and my wife hike in Glacier Montana. We carried bear spray all the time. Actually Id rather carry bear spray than a rifle. Anything less than a first shot kill can cause a deadly response driven by adrenaline in the animal. The bears out there are very dangerous. In an area where we were hiking the day before and employ if one of the lodges and his girlfriend were attacked be a bear. The girlfriend was ok but the young guy got seriously injured. Bear spray and making noise is your friend.
 
While the 41 mag would be a great choice, I'm not comfortable with Taurus handguns, I've owned a few over the years and they just don't measure up ( for me )
A pre lock Smith in 357 would be my first choice...stoked with some stout loads, I'd feel comfortable.
If I could carry whatever I wanted......I'd pick up my S&W mountain gun in 45 Colt with some 300 gr reloads.... didn't need it but that's what I had in Alaska.
 
@.38SuperMan It suprises me that you have not seen anyone open carry in the Smokies. I have seen several mostly in the past few years. I made my first trip in 2000 and have been back about 35 times many from Wisconsin and Illinois before moving to SC in January.
We go with one goal Hike!
As I mentioned earlier my Wife will be carrying bear spray.
The firearm is like every day personnel protection. I started carrying when I received my CCW in 2011.

Thank you for your response.
 
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jeepnik said:
This in a Simply Rugged Chesty Puller rig.
View attachment 934504
If I'm concerned about animals that might eat me the last thing I want to worry about is digging a handgun out from some hidden spot.
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The chesty puller served me nicely with a Cuda holster for years in AK, though I went with a Redhawk .44 Mag, I almost went with a Super Blackhawk but decided I'd rather have the option of a double action pull in case of a charging bear.

Sadly, I realized after I moved back that I just don't care for DA revolvers over the SAA style and sold the Ruger. Had I gone with the Blackhawk I'm sure I'd still have it.

Still, I felt reasonable with the .44 and 310 grain Garrett Hammerheads, and a shotgun in the boat.

MaxP said:
I’m sorry, but I would want something more decisive than a condiment that may or may not work. I’m not opposed to having both a firearm and bear spray at your disposal, but if you really want to end a threat...
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WisBorn said:
As I mentioned earlier my Wife will be carrying besr spray.
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As has been noted, having both is very good to have since, especially with black bears, a curious bear is more likely than a charging one. And ones who have been around humans (and campsites) too much can get kinda difficult to chase off with simple yelling and banging, a snoutfull of pepper can be a nice reminder to stay away.

I recall a few buddies had an issue with a black bear up in the boundary waters, they had to chase it off their camp three times in a single night before deciding, as it came back again, to paddle out to a different island for the rest of the night, a good face full of spray would likely have settled that issue quicker, and a bullet wasn't likely warranted (or at all legal, in that case).
 
.308 Norma said:
There's plenty of "brown," as well as cinnamon and blond Black Bears in Yellowstone and Grand Teton (right next door) National Parks. Did you see any Grizzlies?
Sorry, I'm not trying to be a wise guy. It's just that there's a lot of people that think Black Bears are black, while Grizzlies are brown, and that is simply not true. Not that you couldn't have very well seen a few Grizzlies in Yellowstone - there's something like 800 of them in and around Yellowstone, and a bunch more just a little north of there, in and around Glacier National Park.
That said, I carried a heavily loaded Ruger 45 Colt or a heavily loaded Taurus 41 Magnum (along with bear spray) for bear protection when my wife and I were into backpacking. I didn't carry concealed though - didn't see a reason for having my handgun concealed when my wife and I were 30 miles into the Idaho wilderness. There are both Black Bears and Grizzlies in Idaho too BTW, along with wolves and mountain lions.
However, I can very well see the reasoning behind your wanting to carry concealed if you're occasionally going to be running into other people on your hikes. As a matter of fact, running into other people all the time is one of the main things my wife and I disliked about the few hikes we did in Yellowstone and Grand Teton National Parks - where I did carry concealed. But as far as that goes - almost every time we saw a bear (either Black or Griz) in Yellowstone or Grand Teton National Park, there was a bunch of gawkers standing around staring, and getting entirely too close as far as we were concerned.
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I've come across Grizzlies while working in Alaska and YT that were almost jet black. You do a double take.
 
I voted the 686. Bottom line is that I wouldn't be comfortable carrying any of these if I really thought I needed to deal with a black bear, which admittedly in the region you describe, should not be horrifically formidable in terms of size and weight. The barrels are all too short.

That said, a lot of people in a lot of fora over the years have scoffed at .357 vs even black bear, whereas 10mm is now ubiquitous in AK to deal with browns/grizzlies and its record in doing so has been quite good.

I put a chart together for these calibers:

cal type fps lbft momo cap
357 mag 158 jsp 1471 759 232 7
357 mag 180 HC 1400 783 252 7
10mm 200 HC 1250 694 250 16
10mm 220 HC 1200 703 264 16
45 Sup 230 FN 1100 618 253 13
45 Sup 255 HC 1075 654 274.125 13
45 ACP+P 255 HC 925 484 235.875 13
41 mag 230 Keith 1450 1074 333.5 5

where I compared caliber to bullet type, typical velocity (mfr), energy, momentum in g*fps/1000, and typical capacity (for .45 I used HK USP and I referenced 45 Super along with what I'd consider the best round for woods duty in 45 ACP+P)

Nobody considers the 10mm inadequate at this point yet we can see that .357 in 180gr HC offers more energy and either more or nearly the same momentum as 10mm in either of the load types typically used for "bear duty." The 45 Super while lower in energy is the momo king between the 357, 10, and 45. Alaskan Ballistics has done penetration comparisons between 10 and 45 Super; they're basically equivalent.

The 41 is significantly more powerful than any of these, however, you're in a Taurus, with a short barrel, and 5 shots. It will produce more terminal effect from this platform than either of your other weapons, but controlalbility has got to be poor from that pistol. A 3.8" barrel in 45 is right at the threshold for me for use against humans- reference Lucky Gunner's test results to see that .45 suffers a considerable falloff in velocity in quite a few rounds, along with precipitous drop in energy and effectiveness as barrels get really short. I switched to .40 for short barrels because that caliber is more tolerant to shorter barrels.

For SC black bear, I think .357 is easily enough just on the numbers with the right ammo. The .45 even in +P, with a 3.8" barrel, is just not packing the right punch. A full size maybe but a compact? All you have is round count going for you. For these choices, the 7 rounds in the 686+ with 180g HC is probably what I'd go with. 2nd choice is the .41 just on the power of the cartridge...but it would be a handful with that barrel and that platform.
 
trax77 said:
I voted the 686. Bottom line is that I wouldn't be comfortable carrying any of these if I really thought I needed to deal with a black bear, which admittedly in the region you describe, should not be horrifically formidable in terms of size and weight. The barrels are all too short.

That said, a lot of people in a lot of fora over the years have scoffed at .357 vs even black bear, whereas 10mm is now ubiquitous in AK to deal with browns/grizzlies and its record in doing so has been quite good.

I put a chart together for these calibers:

cal type fps lbft momo cap
357 mag 158 jsp 1471 759 232 7
357 mag 180 HC 1400 783 252 7
10mm 200 HC 1250 694 250 16
10mm 220 HC 1200 703 264 16
45 Sup 230 FN 1100 618 253 13
45 Sup 255 HC 1075 654 274.125 13
45 ACP+P 255 HC 925 484 235.875 13
41 mag 230 Keith 1450 1074 333.5 5

where I compared caliber to bullet type, typical velocity (mfr), energy, momentum in g*fps/1000, and typical capacity (for .45 I used HK USP and I referenced 45 Super along with what I'd consider the best round for woods duty in 45 ACP+P)

Nobody considers the 10mm inadequate at this point yet we can see that .357 in 180gr HC offers more energy and either more or nearly the same momentum as 10mm in either of the load types typically used for "bear duty." The 45 Super while lower in energy is the momo king between the 357, 10, and 45. Alaskan Ballistics has done penetration comparisons between 10 and 45 Super; they're basically equivalent.

The 41 is significantly more powerful than any of these, however, you're in a Taurus, with a short barrel, and 5 shots. It will produce more terminal effect from this platform than either of your other weapons, but controlalbility has got to be poor from that pistol. A 3.8" barrel in 45 is right at the threshold for me for use against humans- reference Lucky Gunner's test results to see that .45 suffers a considerable falloff in velocity in quite a few rounds, along with precipitous drop in energy and effectiveness as barrels get really short. I switched to .40 for short barrels because that caliber is more tolerant to shorter barrels.

For SC black bear, I think .357 is easily enough just on the numbers with the right ammo. The .45 even in +P, with a 3.8" barrel, is just not packing the right punch. A full size maybe but a compact? All you have is round count going for you. For these choices, the 7 rounds in the 686+ with 180g HC is probably what I'd go with. 2nd choice is the .41 just on the power of the cartridge...but it would be a handful with that barrel and that platform.
Click to expand...
Yes the 41 mag is a little hand cannon. I have not had any problems with the little Taurus. Fact is all three guns are very reliable.
 
.38SuperMan said:
Other than attracting a hungry bear your biggest danger is getting lost. Weather is unpredictable and changes quickly. It’s not unusual for hikers to be killed by lightning or get lost and die of exposure in colder weather.

As far as 2 legged critters, it’s extremely rare for there to be any problems on the trails.

Have fun! Be safe!
Click to expand...

This is a map of actual bear fatalities in North America from 2000 to 2018. I posted it on another forum and it was scoffed at. Surely bears are more deadly!

Fatal-bear-attacks-in-usa-and-canada-903px.jpg
 
Trey Veston said:
This is a map of actual bear fatalities in North America from 2000 to 2018. I posted it on another forum and it was scoffed at. Surely bears are more deadly!

View attachment 935791
Click to expand...
Thanks for the map:thumbup:

As far as it goes @.38SuperMan is right about the other dangers we face. We should all carry extra water, food, a first aid kit, & space blanket . To protect us against wildlife an EpiPen.
I wonder what the bear attack numbers per state look like?

Thanks for the response.
 
You don't need to get killed by a bear to have it ruin your day. Last year there were four attacks within 30 miles of my house. No one died but at least one of the guys was messed up. And a year or two before that a guy that lives in town here got attacked twice by the same Grizzly- he got attacked but only roughed up, bear and him met as he walked out and the second time he got really torn up. He lived but YIKES! :eek: He was a mess.:barf:
 
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