Beren
Moderator Emeritus
The best bear protection is a friend who runs slower than you do. 
Bear protection
- Thread starter PAC 762
- Start date
- Status
Dave3006 wrote -
"Bear spray does not work well on Black Bears. It is effective on Browns and Grizzlies".
Someone want to explain what is physically different between black and grizzly or brownies that would make bear spray ineffective?
Doesn't sound logical since the capsaicin is an irritant to the nasal and eye tissue.
Maybe those rascally black bears are wearing goggles and nose plugs, ya think?
"Bear spray does not work well on Black Bears. It is effective on Browns and Grizzlies".
Someone want to explain what is physically different between black and grizzly or brownies that would make bear spray ineffective?
Doesn't sound logical since the capsaicin is an irritant to the nasal and eye tissue.
Maybe those rascally black bears are wearing goggles and nose plugs, ya think?
Tag
Member
This thred is cracking me up
Elks, I think the reasoning was that Blackies are only going to go after you if they mean bussiness, in which case 'bear spray' is probably no good anyways. Browns and Polars and whatnot will sometimes put on a show and call it quits when the 'spray' comes out...
I've seen some big bears on the move, and I'd rather have a shotgun.
In response to the original poster; I'd go with the full size .45
as dave3006 said:
Make your decisions and take your chances.... and take care.
Elks, I think the reasoning was that Blackies are only going to go after you if they mean bussiness, in which case 'bear spray' is probably no good anyways. Browns and Polars and whatnot will sometimes put on a show and call it quits when the 'spray' comes out...
I've seen some big bears on the move, and I'd rather have a shotgun.
In response to the original poster; I'd go with the full size .45
as dave3006 said:
Make your decisions and take your chances.... and take care.
Highland Ranger
Member
Many are a few hundred pounds but, unlike what the tree huggers would have you believe, we do get some 500+ pounders. I have personally seen several up here in the highlands.
In any event, you don't want to mess with them and for the most part they don't want anything to do with you either . . . . . but sometimes . . . . . if they are sick or hungry or young, they can be trouble.
if i remember coretly from my CCW class (at least in AZ) a person with OUT a CCW would get away more often by "acting stupid" uninformed..... then somebody who supposebly is educated and having a CCW....
a Judge would have very high expectations from a CCW holder .... and probably throw "the book" @ you
Just my 2 cent worths. In areas that I hike that "guns are prohibited" and even if they are not, but running into a bear is possible, I keep a 4-9 oz. OC pepper spray available. I might not always be able to shoot, but even if the bear is attacking someone the spray can be used without fear of killing someone. It works on 2 legged vermin as well. I also have a knife or two on my person (I know knife vs. bear is bad news, but at least the conservation officers can hopefully follow the bears blood trail when they find whats left of me.....). If you are determined to carry I'd opt for the larger .45 and load it with FMJ or cast lead bullets.
Yooper
Member
If you have reason to believe your life may be put in jeopardy, and effective means of self defense are disallowed, THEN DON'T GO THERE!
laser monkey
Member
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2004
- Messages
- 9
In your situation, I would go with the full size 1911. I would still consider this under-gunned for bear defense but it's the best option (IMHO) that you have.
I really liked the idea of a Glock20 w/ some HOT loads, I would feel pretty comfortable w/ that set up.
Good Luck, stay safe.
I really liked the idea of a Glock20 w/ some HOT loads, I would feel pretty comfortable w/ that set up.
Good Luck, stay safe.
reagansquad
Member
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2004
- Messages
- 386
Forget carrying illegally. Just use good bear ettiquite and carry bear spray.
Powderman
Member
And this, folks, is the best advice in the entire thread.
Yes, I carry guns. That does NOT give me the wherewithal to automatically go into a high-crime area and hang around.
I'll add to the excellent post that I quoted: Go ahead and call the park rangers. I'm almost willing to bet that there might be some provisions for legal carry--especially if it's a State park and you have a CCW that's honored there.
For instance, in WA State, CCW holders can legally carry in State parks. So, go ahead and give them a call.
And, if they say that if you carry and are caught you will be arrested, DON'T GO!!!!
Actually, it is the dumbest of all the gun cliches. It is not the dangerous areas you have to worry about. It is the areas you assume are safe.
Lubys cafeteria
The high school library in Columbine
United Flight 73 on September 11, 2001
Every single person thought these were safe areas. If they could do it again, I bet they would all carry the appropriate weapon and would not think twice about someone elses silly law regarding how they should protect their life.
Lubys cafeteria
The high school library in Columbine
United Flight 73 on September 11, 2001
Every single person thought these were safe areas. If they could do it again, I bet they would all carry the appropriate weapon and would not think twice about someone elses silly law regarding how they should protect their life.
Dave - please don't teach newbies about gun usage. I respectfully suggest that you need to re-evaluate your positions.
The best answer is that if you really feel that you need a gun and can't have one - don't go there.
I go in the wild where there are dangerous critters. I go prepared, if I couldn't - well, I'm going to the movies.
As far as breaking the law with carry, one might argue that you are a wimp for carrying concealed. Be brave like Rosa Parks and start the wave of civil disobedience. Carry openly in forbidden areas. Who's the coward?
The best answer is that if you really feel that you need a gun and can't have one - don't go there.
I go in the wild where there are dangerous critters. I go prepared, if I couldn't - well, I'm going to the movies.
As far as breaking the law with carry, one might argue that you are a wimp for carrying concealed. Be brave like Rosa Parks and start the wave of civil disobedience. Carry openly in forbidden areas. Who's the coward?
You missed the point, GEM. You never know when you will need a gun. Life and death situations can happen anywhere (read my previous post slowly and carefully). There are no completely "safe" areas.
Don't be stupid on the Rosa Parks example. If you want to carry that logic to its logical conclusion, we should all consider Timothy McVey our non-coward hero. See how dumb the coward argument is?
Don't be stupid on the Rosa Parks example. If you want to carry that logic to its logical conclusion, we should all consider Timothy McVey our non-coward hero. See how dumb the coward argument is?
Hike in larger numbers, and make cartain you are loud enough that even the blind bears can hear you coming. Many attacks occur because the hikers surprised the bear up close.
Also, double check the firearms laws for the park. Several of the State and Federal parks in my area forbid LOADED FIREARMS. I was actually stupid enough to ask a ranger about that one time. He looked at me as if I just did something nasty to his lunch, and then simple quoted the sign word for word with added emphasis to the word LOADED. In those parks I carry a Ruger sp101 .357 with loose ammo in a pocket. The laws get kind of hinky about what loaded and unloaded is, some saying it means a round in the chamber, some if there is ammo in a readily insertable magazine.
Also, double check the firearms laws for the park. Several of the State and Federal parks in my area forbid LOADED FIREARMS. I was actually stupid enough to ask a ranger about that one time. He looked at me as if I just did something nasty to his lunch, and then simple quoted the sign word for word with added emphasis to the word LOADED. In those parks I carry a Ruger sp101 .357 with loose ammo in a pocket. The laws get kind of hinky about what loaded and unloaded is, some saying it means a round in the chamber, some if there is ammo in a readily insertable magazine.
Hello everyone,
I can't help myself: anytime I see a 'bear defense' thread, it pulls me like flies to crap! Ok, here's my take:
-PAC,
Get the bear spray AND carry. Carry your 45 with FMJs since you're most comfortable with that and can conceal it. ANY handgun on an enraged bruin essentially will come down to you getting lucky enough to hit the CNS or break a shoulder to turn the charge, so I'd rather go for fast and clean shot placement, since nothing on your list will drop that bear NOW.
The bear spray is great. Test one out and you'll see why. It truly acts like what most newbies think of with a shotgun: really wiiiide dispersal, and if there's no wind it'll hang in the air giving you an orange wall between you and the bear. The weakness ofcourse, is weather sensitivety, the possibility of blowing back on you, and not the best defense BUT it just might trump the handgun.
-As for the other commentary about law, gunrights, cowards and all that:
I feel, while dave3006 is being a bit harsh, I feel he's got a very legitimate point. Instead of getting flustered and cut up on his hard edges, consider his opinion. Really, why do most of us have guns? To have fun, yes, but also because somewhere either in the back of your mind and hopefully in the front, you believe the gun to be the best form of protection for just about any lethal confrontation. Yes, knives, bats, asps, mace all have their places in the tool box, but the gun, specifically the handgun for us civilians is what is with us when confronted with the unknown.
I ALWAYS carry when in the woods, regardless of the law. Always. There's something called the 2nd that allows me to do this, regardless of the draconian laws that have been put in place to take this most fundamental right away. Even if I lived in a country (I come from Brazil) where they didn't allow the carry of any weapons, I'd still carry (even if it's a knife overseas).
It's also the principle of the matter: we should be excercising our rights, not tip-toeing around laws that shouldn't be there in the first place. DISCRETION ALWAYS, but excercise your rights. You'll be surprised as to how many officers and park rangers, Off-the-record, see it our way, even in the big cities like NYC. Outta sight, outta mind.
In the meanwhile, I'll take my peace of mind, thanks.
-Paco
I can't help myself: anytime I see a 'bear defense' thread, it pulls me like flies to crap! Ok, here's my take:
-PAC,
Get the bear spray AND carry. Carry your 45 with FMJs since you're most comfortable with that and can conceal it. ANY handgun on an enraged bruin essentially will come down to you getting lucky enough to hit the CNS or break a shoulder to turn the charge, so I'd rather go for fast and clean shot placement, since nothing on your list will drop that bear NOW.
The bear spray is great. Test one out and you'll see why. It truly acts like what most newbies think of with a shotgun: really wiiiide dispersal, and if there's no wind it'll hang in the air giving you an orange wall between you and the bear. The weakness ofcourse, is weather sensitivety, the possibility of blowing back on you, and not the best defense BUT it just might trump the handgun.
-As for the other commentary about law, gunrights, cowards and all that:
I feel, while dave3006 is being a bit harsh, I feel he's got a very legitimate point. Instead of getting flustered and cut up on his hard edges, consider his opinion. Really, why do most of us have guns? To have fun, yes, but also because somewhere either in the back of your mind and hopefully in the front, you believe the gun to be the best form of protection for just about any lethal confrontation. Yes, knives, bats, asps, mace all have their places in the tool box, but the gun, specifically the handgun for us civilians is what is with us when confronted with the unknown.
I ALWAYS carry when in the woods, regardless of the law. Always. There's something called the 2nd that allows me to do this, regardless of the draconian laws that have been put in place to take this most fundamental right away. Even if I lived in a country (I come from Brazil) where they didn't allow the carry of any weapons, I'd still carry (even if it's a knife overseas).
It's also the principle of the matter: we should be excercising our rights, not tip-toeing around laws that shouldn't be there in the first place. DISCRETION ALWAYS, but excercise your rights. You'll be surprised as to how many officers and park rangers, Off-the-record, see it our way, even in the big cities like NYC. Outta sight, outta mind.
In the meanwhile, I'll take my peace of mind, thanks.
-Paco
fast97rs
Member
Rather than break the law and carry or stay within the law and get mauled.....
Have you guys considered maybee not putting yourselves in danger and not breaking the law?
The answer is simple:
B]"IF YOU DON'T FEEL SAFE AND CAN'T MAKE YOURSELF SAFE DON'T GO!"[/B]
Have you guys considered maybee not putting yourselves in danger and not breaking the law?
The answer is simple:
B]"IF YOU DON'T FEEL SAFE AND CAN'T MAKE YOURSELF SAFE DON'T GO!"[/B]
spacemanspiff
Senior Member
whats that about if i carry where i'm not supposed to the state will give me a girlfriend?
tell me more....
since all the THR females are spoken for and dont have any single friends to bring to the table, its getting kinda lonesome. wildalaska isnt even helping me out with his shop-slave Muffy.
edit - p.s. didnt read the entire thread, but would suggest doublechecking the regs about where this hiker is going. in some places up here, you cant carry a gun PERIOD. in other areas, you just cant carry concealed. invisible lines exist.
tell me more....
since all the THR females are spoken for and dont have any single friends to bring to the table, its getting kinda lonesome. wildalaska isnt even helping me out with his shop-slave Muffy.edit - p.s. didnt read the entire thread, but would suggest doublechecking the regs about where this hiker is going. in some places up here, you cant carry a gun PERIOD. in other areas, you just cant carry concealed. invisible lines exist.
Geesh, some people on this board are slow. fast97rs, please read this slowly:
A. THERE ARE NO "SAFE" AREAS ON PLANET EARTH.
B. YOUR FEELINGS ABOUT "SAFENESS" ARE IRRELEVENT. EVERYONE IN LUBY'S CAFETERIA FELT SAFE ONE TERRIBLE MORNING.
C. THE AREAS YOU THINK ARE SAFE ARE THE MOST DANGEROUS BECAUSE YOU THINK YOU ARE SAFE.
You need to ask yourself one question. Who makes the decisions of life or death on the one and only life you will ever get?
A. THERE ARE NO "SAFE" AREAS ON PLANET EARTH.
B. YOUR FEELINGS ABOUT "SAFENESS" ARE IRRELEVENT. EVERYONE IN LUBY'S CAFETERIA FELT SAFE ONE TERRIBLE MORNING.
C. THE AREAS YOU THINK ARE SAFE ARE THE MOST DANGEROUS BECAUSE YOU THINK YOU ARE SAFE.
You need to ask yourself one question. Who makes the decisions of life or death on the one and only life you will ever get?
Tag
Member
This is at the heart of the matter. If I was going to be in bear country for an extended period you can bet I would carry, it's my right, my decision, and if I were to get accosted in the woods and searched by some roving park patrol, so be it. I'd explain the same thing to them whereby they would probably take me to jail, or look the other way and send me on my way.
I'm not old enough to spew out any wisdom to you old farts
but come on guys, I could get hit by a car on my way to class in an hour... does that mean I shouldn’t go?
Marshall
Member
Let me know what you decide when you're in jail. LOL 
Yooper
Member
Tag-
If you have reason to believe that you are LIKELY to be hit by a car (kamikaze NMU drivers), and a suit of armor/MichelinMan outfit and/or a bazooka are not allowed on campus (I know the bazooka isn't), then don't go to class.
There exists the possibility, not probability, that an airliner could crash into my house at any time. However, I still sleep well at night.
I have read some posts which imply that you are justified in carrying a firearm to class because you are not safe anywhere.
What it boils down to is: If you feel that the risk is worth suffering the consequences, then go for it, but don't complain about the consequences after the fact.
Come to think of it, NMU drivers have more to fear from kamikaze pedestrians than vice versa, especially in the winter! Higher education is not always consistent with common sense.
If you have reason to believe that you are LIKELY to be hit by a car (kamikaze NMU drivers), and a suit of armor/MichelinMan outfit and/or a bazooka are not allowed on campus (I know the bazooka isn't), then don't go to class.
There exists the possibility, not probability, that an airliner could crash into my house at any time. However, I still sleep well at night.
I have read some posts which imply that you are justified in carrying a firearm to class because you are not safe anywhere.
What it boils down to is: If you feel that the risk is worth suffering the consequences, then go for it, but don't complain about the consequences after the fact.
Come to think of it, NMU drivers have more to fear from kamikaze pedestrians than vice versa, especially in the winter! Higher education is not always consistent with common sense.
Golly. You should have said, "You'll shoot your eye out."
You won't go to jail.
Let's worst case this thing. If I go to jail, I will promise to write you. If you die begging and pleading for your life and the lives of your family as you are ruthlessly murdered, you get to be dead for eternity. Fair deal?
You won't go to jail.
Let's worst case this thing. If I go to jail, I will promise to write you. If you die begging and pleading for your life and the lives of your family as you are ruthlessly murdered, you get to be dead for eternity. Fair deal?
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