Confession time: guns we can't shoot

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lsudave

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We're all fantastic marksmen on the internet here :), even if we don't actively intend to come across that way. I suppose some of it is pride, we want to brag and show off a little when we do something we thing is good, and we tend to keep the failures minimized.

I went to the range today, and something happened that basically kicked me in the groin (or at least, my ego).
I'm no great shooter, but I like to think I'm decent enough for a casual shooter. I used to shoot 22lr rifles as a kid in some NRA events, I know the basics, etc. I can get decent groupings offhand with most pistols.

So my latest endeavor is old .32 ACP pistols, they tend to be inexpensive and classy. Got a CZ 27 that shoots almost on par with a Ruger Mk II (that my son actually found in the store, and it became his birthday present); I wanted another and added a Savage 1907. Offhand experience for both of us was pretty embarrassing, we're talking almost 1 ft "groups" at 7 yds, after I put 50 cent groups with the CZ. Some of that is the sight, so I dabbed a little white paint on the front sight, and by really, really focusing and taking my time, I was able to pull it down to around 6"., an improvement but still nothing to be thrilled about. And all over the board, not just to one side or up/down. My son, who's not as steady as I am, had worse experiences. He and his friend can't shoot the darn thing at all, and they swore it must be "messed up". I thought maybe the crown was bad, but I couldn't find anything of note.

Well, I broke down today at the range. It was empty, and they had a few benchrest holds (I don't know the exact name of it). But I sat down, braced myself really good, and lined up the pistol at 7 yds (it wasn't a vice, but just something that will keep your hand still). I shot a 5 rd test, at a 6 inch splatter target, with a 1 inch red bullseye, with Fiocchi red box FMJ. The first shot was dead center but two inches high, on the 8/9 ring- I had too much front sight showing. So I lowered the muzzle a hair to where the front sight was almost invisible (especially to my older eyeballs:cuss:)... the next 4 were dead on. As in, it looked like I shot 1 .45 ACP into the bull. Well, so much for the gun being "off", or for me being any good :oops:. My son was shooting his Beretta 92S in the next bay, and I called over for him to look. "Sweet" he called back, "which one is that?".He was speechless when I told him.

It's now my mission to get tight groups offhand with that pistol. I'm obviously doing something wrong, but it's not even a consistent left or right etc. But I plan to keep bench shooting it, until I can slowly transition to shooting it offhand. I figure whatever I'm doing, I do to a lesser extent with everything else, and if I can clean it up on the Savage, I should see the results across the board.

Anyone else have experience with something like this?
 
Sort of. I have a Desert Eagle in fifty AE. They are known to be quite accurate.
I am a fairly good shot with pistols. I enjoy shooting much farther than most of the guys I shoot with, not quite the long line of bullseye, but thirty to fifty feet. And covering most of them with my hand. I have several times popped a milk jug at a hundred yards with my Dan Wesson Silverback, first shots.

The Eagle seemed to defy me at every occasion. The eight to ten inches at twenty feet kind of defiance. I tried kneeling, resting it on bags and even a red dot. (For ten shots before it died.) I tried Hornady "Custom" ammunition, thinking my handloads were just not good enough, as I did have some bullet set back at times. The Hornady ammunition shot even worse. Very inconsistent for alleged "Custom" rounds.

I resigned to fix the set back problem and live with not being able to control a magnum cartridge. I could still blast a milk jug of water at 'normal' pistol ranges and soak everyone in twenty feet of myself. Measuring everything I found the RCBS dies would not size the brass enough. A set of hornady dies got them seven thousandths smaller. I couldn't hammer them on the bench and make them set back. "Good, at least I fixed that and they are safer." I thought to myself. (They are so tight I can't even disassemble the dummy rounds with a puller.)
When I went back to the cabin to try out the new loads and chronograph them, they were astounding! Blasting the two inch bullseye out at twenty feet, astounding. The muzzle flash and bark were consistent and the velocity numbers were within thirty feet per second of each other. A completely different and meaner animal. Changing to CCI magnum primers intensified this effect. It now runs just under the Wesson and a Buckmark as accuracy rates.
Though not quite the same as your thirty two experience, sometimes the one thing that is key, is elusive.

I hope that you find your key.:)
 
I have an LCR that i just cannot shoot, even with light loads the recoil in that light gun is punishing. I bought it as a carry gun but it stays locked away as a last resort gun. The combination of the sights, the weight, and the trigger pull make it almost useless. Meanwhile the 3" version gets carried quite often and I can put a lot of my +p reloads downrange accurately and comfortably
 
The Taurus Millenium G2 PT111, it takes soooo much effort not to shoot low and to the left, and the trigger safety irritates my trigger finger. It mostly sits in my GHB anyway, if I ever had to use it, low and left will probably not be such a bad thing...
 
The gun that's been disappointing for me as far as accuracy has been my surplus CZ 52, They're supposed to be accurate guns, but I can't shoot mine all that well. It is very reliable, though. My first inclination is that it's the gun, but always remind myself that the human being pulling the trigger is the most variable of all the variables.

However, despite being a generally good gun, CZ 52's have pretty mediocre sights. I've had it out twice, but haven't bench rested it. I'll have someone else shoot it if I can.

The other gun I didn't like accuracy wise was my SP101, but that was me...or me with respect to the ammo. Some guy at the range gave me extra light target loads and the gun shot great. The problem was even middle of the road .38's would always get a flyer, one in five. Maybe two. Didn't matter what ammo. Most of my J frame Smiths and Rossi snubbies - all lighter guns than the SP101 - were more accurate than that Ruger. I sold it.
 
I'll admit it
I'm not the best shot in the world
Hell.....I'm not even the best shot in my family.

That said, I've only been shooting a short time. So I'm still learning and improving.

When I go to the range I work on skills to get better.

So I'm pretty decent with an AR, I'm ok with my pistols and awful with the shotgun.

So lots of work to do to be happy with my skills in all of them.
 
Yep,
I'm a Sig guy...got 6, have had, I dunno, a dozen more in the before time. I'm a pretty good shot with them, BUT, my very first almost put me off the brand right away: a 9mm P239. To this day, don't know why it would just shoot all over the place.
Also had a Taurus Titanium 7 shot .357 snubnose......couldn't hit the side of a barn.
Then there was a .45 Firestar.......
I'm a good shot, I swear.........! ;)
 
I cannot shoot any Glock I've tried accurately, at speed.

Neither can I shoot skeet or trap; the shotgun sports seem to be largely beyond any natural talent I may possess.

The other day I found myself with a small finch on my heavy-barreled .22lr, but none at all on the Mosin-Nagant. That was curious.

Regards,

Josh
 
I tend to be pretty honest about my shooting - I put myself out on YouTube videos, so there's not arguments - I am about average on a good day. :) But, as the OP asked, there was one gun that just defied me like none other. I hate an Atra A-90 45ACP pistol about 30 or so years ago, thought since my A-80 was pretty decent, (once you learned how to manage that pull-on-Sunday-goes-off-on-Thursday trigger), the A-90 would be the same if not better, being newer and with a better trigger.
Never been more wrong in my life. I could not hit the broadside of a barn with it. I had other people shoot it and they did just fine. I just could not make that gun work for me - possessed by an evil spirit that took a personal dislike to me, I guess. Didn't take long to go bye-bye.
 
Another SP101 here. I decided at some point I needed a .357. As a reloader, there aren't many calibers more flexible and versatile. I bought my SP101 brand new after a lot of research but unfortunately no hands-on shooting.

Recoil was heavy, but that doesn't generally bother me much. It just felt painful on my trigger finger. After only the first box of .357 i saw blood running down my hand. It seems the sharp parts at the top-front of the trigger had chewed up my finger pretty good. So I took some files and stones to the sharp parts and smoothed them out a bit.

The second time out, I got through about 100 before I had to quit. My finger was not cut, but it was pretty banged up top and bottom. And I was getting a flinch.

I used it for a few more months until I went to the range with my friend and he offered to let me shoot his short-barreled .44 Magnum Taurus Tracker. I don't turn down opportunities to shoot different guns, but I figured if the .357 hurt that much, the .44 was gonna rip off my finger. Bang....more recoil than the SP101 but no finger torture. I emptied the cylinder with no issues whatsoever. I ended up trading him the SP101 for a 1911 (he knows my weaknesses) and I bought a Taurus 605 (after test shooting one this time) and it has never caused me any of the same issues as the Ruger in spite of the lighter weight. He has never had issues with the Ruger, and he shoots it well.

I think the SP101 is an elegant, well designed gun that doesn't like folks with huge fingers.
 
I consider myself a pretty decent shooter with just about any handgun I have owned, but for one: an Astra Model 600. It was my first autoloader and I knew nothing about what a straight blowback 9mm. was about but I certainly learned quickly! The gun itself was very accurate, at least for the first 5 or 6 shots. After that it became a painful ordeal just to get through the rest of the box of ammo. I always shot it last whenever I took it out because I knew my hand would hurt too much to do anymore shooting after that.
 
O.P.,

Your son and your own shooting is proof that you both have failed to master the fundamentals of shooting. I suspect neither of you have had any formal training from a NRA Certified Instructor.

Shooting from a rest is fine but unless you use proper fundamentals all you are doing is reinforcing bad habits.You will find your shooting will improve dramatically with some instruction and practicing those proper fundamentals.

Personally for me the biggest cause for poor groups is not watching the front sight. I have a couple of eyesight issues including bifocals and needing eye surgery (Doc says probably in another year) so focusing on keeping the front sight sharp causes eye strain and fatigue. When I notice my groups are opening up I force my myself to really concentrate on focusing on the front sight. I even go so far as to repeat "front sight, front sight, front sight" when squeezing the trigger.

Doc has promised that my vison will greatly improve after I have surgery which mean s I will probably have to find something else to blame when I shoot poor groups. :neener:
 
Sig P556. Even with a sling I never had the patience to develop good accuracy with it.

Bond Arms Snake Slayer IV. Realized I didn't enjoy shooting it, which means I didn't practice. Never a good shot with it really.

I'm an average shooter. Quick defense center mass shots at 12 yards are pretty easy for me. 20 yard shots aren't terribly difficult. Past 20 yards, my precision really starts to drop off and I need to focus. I have years of work to do.
 
Sounds to me, like BSA1 knows what he is talking about, I've had officers out on the range saying their firearms "were not shooting straight", after taking the firearm and test firing it I found it to be perfectly ok. After reviewing his or hers, shooting techniques and correcting their errors, they too were shooting very well. The mistake I found in most of them was there grip, it kept changing, some there stance was a bit awkward, and for some others there trigger control was absolutely terrible. Most had there sight alignment pretty well down pat, but without the other contributing factors in "shooting accuracy" the others kind of fall by the wayside. I'm of the notion that the two most important factors in handgun, as well as rifle shooting is "sight alignment, and trigger control", which takes a lot of practice. BTW I do have a Star ..45 Firestar, that I find to be extremely accurate, as well as a Taurus Millenium in 9mm. I believe it is all in the technique. Granted any firearm that is constantly torturing your trigger finger is not going to be very accurate due to the trigger control being a very important function in accurate shooting. JMHO
 
Im new to handguns. I picked up a g17 for my first pistol and was very pumped about it untill I took it out he first few times. At seven yards I'd have a 6-8" group sometimes better ,more often worse.off hand taking my time. Picked up a 6"gp100 and can group 1" on a good group with the occasional flyer caused by my error opening it up to 1.5-2",single action of course.That gun just fits me . Liked the Glock but got rid of it for a sp101 2.25" bbl for cc. I even shoot that snubby in single action better than the Glock lol.
 
beretta M9, had one for a decade, racked up 600 rounds on it, never could hit with it. Everyone else could, very accurate. The recoil impulse is what did it. I had some really hot 9+p+ I worked up, 124gr at 1250fps, chrono verified, and it shot like a dream. All that recoil seemed to straighten out the weird pulsation unique to the 92. But it showed signs of excess pressure, so I got rid of it. I was getting maybe one foot groups at 10 yards... those +p+'s would get me beercans at 50 yards easy.
 
Any gun with that steep grip angle, like the Glocks or the Ruger .22s. I know it's not the guns' fault; that grip just feels awkward to me.

With the Mk.II, I'm lucky if I can keep all the shots on the 6" swinger at 25 yards; give me the old rattletrap mil-spec 1911 and I'll get the bowling pin every time.
 
Keltec p3at. The trigger guard whacks my finger every time I fire it. I may have the same problem with my hk usp 40c to a lesser degree.

I used to have problems shooting my full sized glock 20 with hogue grips left, but after not shooting it for more than 10 years I somehow outgrew that. I need to try a 1911 as I have had problems shooting those consistently left as well.
 
I tend to keep the pistols I am accurate with, and sell the rest. I give myself time to get used to a pistol. But I don't let it become an obsessive nature..."if only I had put 2000 rounds more through it, I would be able to get it on paper."

Most recently I fired a Taurus 709, meant for my wife's carry weapon. Could not group very well with it at 7 yards. Groups were about 6" during rapid fire (about 1 round per second.) She didn't feel comfortable with it just because I couldn't shoot it well, so it got sold.
 
Anything DA lol. If I really take my time and focus I can get shots on a target with no real grouping but at normal speed am all over the place. I'm just not a DA guy.

Pretty much anything else I can usually do fairly well with.
 
O.P.,

Your son and your own shooting is proof that you both have failed to master the fundamentals of shooting. I suspect neither of you have had any formal training from a NRA Certified Instructor.
You're right, we haven't had formal training with pistols. And you know what, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it either. I can stand and shoot my CZ 75, 1911, Sig P226 and others, offhand, and hit paper plates at 50 yds -yes, not feet, and that's at the back of the berm so I imagine there's probably another 7 yds attached to it. At the same distance I can hit coffee cups with any of my .22's. That's plenty good enough for me. I'm not a commando, I work in a field that prevents me from carrying at work, and I collect and shoot what I do solely for my own pleasure. Which I do happen to gain, by shooting.

I did shoot from the time I was 12 until college with .22 bolt action rifles, and did well in prone, sitting, kneeling, and standing positions. I know how to control my breathing and body mechanics, I know how to sight in a random rifle before expecting to score 45+ in 5 shot groups, and that was fun.

I'm not in a place in my life where I need some gung-ho range hero to fiddle with my grip for awhile, only to finally accept that the injury I had to my dominant hand physically prevents his preferred grip. And yes, I had some jackhandle come do that uninvited once, despite the fact that we were all quite safe and observing every rule... he was just one of those guys we occasionally come across (in any setting, not just at the range). And the really good part was that he wasn't shooting any better than I was, he just felt the need to "correct" strangers minding their own business. Oh, and yes, I humored him awhile instead of telling him to get lost, because I generally try to be friendly. And his advice was useless anyway, as he was talking about thumb placement around the safety, and I did eventually point out that I'm lefthanded shooting a CZ 75, and there was no safety on that side of the frame.

Sorry if that sounds a bit over-reactive, but I didn't post this thread asking for a fix (and as I mentioned, there obviously is something in the mechanics with this particular grip setup with me), I was basically laughing at myself having a bear of a time shooting this little pistol (the Savage 1907) with any accuracy. Not sure what combination it is, as I have shot smaller pistols in larger calibers with sights as bad (the P-64 comes to mind), and do better. Even shoot the P-64 in DA and will get a more reliable hit. If you're familiar with that, it's a Polish 9x18 pistol the size of a PPK, with a DA trigger probably over 20 lbs, and tiny sights.

Right now, this little Savage is just defeating me. One of the grips (the right hand side) does wobble a bit, and it might bother me more that I'm thinking. But given that the grips tend to break when you fool with them, I'm hesitant to mess around too much with them.
 
I have two nemsises--S&W automatics and Ruger revolvers.

Somebody hands me a 645 or even a 4500, and the best I can do is minute-of-shed. Same box of ammo into my 1911, and back to satisfactory. SP 101? Fuggetaboutit. Cheapo Uberti, on paper, every time; Trooper Mk V, good enough to tally the score on the target.
 
Im at best a mediocre shot with any handgun, zero training, got into it about 2 years ago, and I cant see open sights to save my life.
Its fun tho, and Im practicing and trying to get better.

One gun ive shot that i simply couldnt shoot was a borrowed .380LCP. At 10yds human size targets were pretty safe.
After that i felt much better shooting the same guys compact glock at a 10" gong at 60-70 yds and hitting it once.......
 
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