I've been reading with interest the thoughts on conical -v- ball. I have a new cannon that I have yet to make a projectile mold for. It is smooth bore and I like to hear your thoughts on a projectile other than a ball. I think a conical or sabot would be very interesting to build. Ideas? I would really enjoy the wealth of wisdom you all bring.
conical -v- ball, or sabot in a cannon
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Sunray
Member
Conical or sabotted projectiles need rifling.
"...a projectile other than a ball..." Case or canister. A great big shotgun.
"...a projectile other than a ball..." Case or canister. A great big shotgun.
elhombreconnonombre
Member
Perhaps a little research into the past is in order as to when the transition was made from cannonball to conical projectiles was made in smoothbore cannon.
xXxplosive
Member
Depending on bore size.......a few cannoneers I knew at rendevous actually used small juice cans filled with hardened concrete...seems inexpensive......I dunno
Officers'Wife
Member
Interesting, perhaps a conical with "rifling" grooves to impart a spin through air resistance.
25cschaefer
Member
You don't need rifling to have accurate "conical" flight. Look at commercially available "rifled" shotgun slugs, the "rifling" on the lead does not impart spin on the projectile, it simply makes it easier to swag through a choke (less surface area with room to smoosh into), making them more acceptable to shoot through normal bird shot barrels. The rifling name is simply a marketing gimmick. What imparts stability is the fact that the nose is much heavier than the base, think badminton birdy.
If you could come up with a cheap birdy like projectile, you'd be in business. Maybe just duplicate a shotgun slug mold
If you could come up with a cheap birdy like projectile, you'd be in business. Maybe just duplicate a shotgun slug mold
ironworkerwill
Member
How bout a finned dart or a tethered slug. The tether would be like a tail on a kite.
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I can see great difficulty and expense making something of this nature come to fruition.
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Not in the case of the M1A1 Abrams with the 120mm smooth bore cannon.
I can see great difficulty and expense making something of this nature come to fruition.
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Couldn't you basically use an enlarged Minié ball concept? A hollow base that would expand to seal the bore, and weigh less, with a solid nose so that the majority of the weight is in the front. Done correctly this should be relatively accurate unless I am completely missing something.
It would also be one of the easiest molds to make to see if it would work.
It would also be one of the easiest molds to make to see if it would work.
M1A1 Man-O-Man, do I ever love this machine! I've seen several specials on what little they tell you about it. Can you imagine riding in and shooting the thing?!?! AND... Your right it's smooth bore! Shoots a conical projectile and is quite deadly accurate! I like the sabot concept. A wooden sabot would be easy for me to make. Ideas on ratios of projectile to sabot?
desidog
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I have used a paper towel roll as a mold for making concrete ,plaster, and joint compound projectiles for my 1.75" swivel cannon. IIRC, the rolls were about 1.7" diameter; but diameters varied slightly by paper towel brand.
Shooting from a smooth bore; i found that there's a little more accuracy when the projectile is about 2" long; projectiles much longer than the diameter tend to destabilize more and drift off target...
Shooting from a smooth bore; i found that there's a little more accuracy when the projectile is about 2" long; projectiles much longer than the diameter tend to destabilize more and drift off target...
ironworkerwill
Member
Yeah, that's the difficulty and expense part. If you ain't already got one, I see a lathe in your future.
I think wood is a good cheap medium for your sabot testing. Maybe an "I" construction quartered.
I have a longer is better mentality(within reason) on finned darts. Think of an arrow, heavy frontal mass with a wider finned rear with a slimmer body.
WestKentucky
Member
I'm going to paintball school of thought here. My marker ended up with a 18" rifled barrel with straight rifling in it to minimize spin. Shooting smooth, the balls are torso accurate to 25 yards, but turn hard afterwards and go way off target. My barrel kept shots torso accurate to about 100 yards...my cheapo shotgun scope attached to the frame helped some....I would look at projectiles with the intent to minimize tumble and spin. Maybe something akin to a tail stabilized beanbag round in a soup can sabot, only something more substantial. Depending upon bore size you might do well with PVC Sabot and be sale to reuse them a time or two.
Kaeto
Member
They did similar to that type of projectile for the Parrott Rifled Cannon.
Also most cannon balls had sabots on them during the Civil War.
ironworkerwill
Member
Man, I wish I lived near you. I've always wanted to experiment with sabots.
Be careful. My drill sergeant in basic had a 120mm dart with out the sabot on his desk. I noticed it had fins perpendicular to the shank. Much like the fins on a motorcycle engine. I never knew why until doing a bit of research. As I understand it those fins are where the sabot locks into the shank of the dart. I'm afraid if a similar construction is not used the sabot or dart will slip wedging the whole thing in the barrel creating an unsafe condition.
Be careful. My drill sergeant in basic had a 120mm dart with out the sabot on his desk. I noticed it had fins perpendicular to the shank. Much like the fins on a motorcycle engine. I never knew why until doing a bit of research. As I understand it those fins are where the sabot locks into the shank of the dart. I'm afraid if a similar construction is not used the sabot or dart will slip wedging the whole thing in the barrel creating an unsafe condition.
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