Considering trading my AR-10 for a bolt gun (.308)

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Kevinq6

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I am considering trading my Savage MSR-10 .308 in for a nice used bolt action and wanted to see if anyone had advice here. The idea is if I had a medium priced bolt gun might have a more natural feel to it and shoot tighter groups, thus allowing me to take longer shots.

My MSR-10 shoots about 1moa when I use 165-180gr Accubonds for reference. So for a bolt gun I would want to be able to shoot .75moa or so but I do not know how much more accurate I can count on a factory bolt shooting.

A possible risk I see to trading my MSR-10 is I might get a bolt gun that does not shoot sub-moa, or is simply as accurate as my MSR-10 was to begin with. If I keep the MSR-10, I know I have a pretty good pig/deer gun.

An alternative to switching would be to look at improving my form with the AR-10 platform and perhaps getting a workable range of 300yds when hunting. Right now I am only comfortable taking shots out to 200yds, which is plenty to hunt but there are some blinds where I have a shot out to 300-350yds where I hunt.
 
If you are shooting 1 MOA with that MSR-10, you have plenty of accuracy to kill deer out to 500 yards if the rifle holds 1 MOA out to that distance. I don’t personally think it’s worth the gamble to trade a 1 MOA rifle for a rifle of unknown accuracy unless you just really want a bolt gun. If it were my choice to make, I’d keep my AR, keep working with it until it is second nature, and save up for a bolt gun in the mean time.
 
marksman13 said:
If you are shooting 1 MOA with that MSR-10, you have plenty of accuracy to kill deer out to 500 yards if the rifle holds 1 MOA out to that distance. I don’t personally think it’s worth the gamble to trade a 1 MOA rifle for a rifle of unknown accuracy unless you just really want a bolt gun. If it were my choice to make, I’d keep my AR, keep working with it until it is second nature, and save up for a bolt gun in the mean time.
Click to expand...

You would be surprised just how much time I have spent thinking about this over the last few months. Sometimes you just need to hear it from someone else. I know you are right, I can't risk a 1moa rifle for something unknown when I am on a budget. I will keep working with this MSR-10 and see how far I can reach out, it will be a good learning experience.

Waiting will also give me some time to think about what bolt to get, and I can spend a little more on the scope if I want.
 
Go back 20 years and beyond and lots of deer were killed with 2-3 MOA rifles and factory ammo out to 250-300 yards.
They still are today by folks shooting older yet still deadly bolt guns with tried and true Core Loc or some other older ammo.

If you are shooting MOA and using the gun for hunting, I don’t see what more you would/could realistically ask for.

But YMMV…
 
Shooting 3/4 vs. 1moa won’t make any difference in effective range, especially when your objective is deer and hog hunting to 300-350 yards. At 400, the max raw potential is an inch, a 3” group won’t kill deer or hogs any deader than a 4” group - BUT - the actual influence on real world impacts on game is really only about .2”… I shoot pretty small, a lot smaller than 3/4-1moa, and I sure can’t tell the difference in .2” at 400yrds…
 
1 MOA is pretty darn good for any rifle- even more so for most AR types. I don't know what type of hunting you do, in the sense of what sort of positions you need to take to get stable and take a shot. The AR10 is usually not as "shooter friendly" as a lighter sporter unless you are able to use good, stable support.
 
Trading a gun and going through the hassle for .25 moa is an exercise in frustration and futility IMO.

I’d buy/build a bolt gun if you wanted one but not sell the Savage. The MSR, while a fine gun, doesn’t always have a great resell value.

Another quick point, you can slow down a semi auto, but you can only shoot multiple shots so fast with a bolt gun.
 
Most bolt guns in the MSR price range don’t shoot much better than 1 MOA without work. Don’t believe the plethora of enthusiasts who claim clover leaf groups with their STOCK Remys, Savage or Tikkas. And unfortunately, extreme accuracy costs money. There are things you can do to greatly increase the accuracy of your MSR, if accuracy is your main goal. But simply trading is not going to get you there. And as you were concerned about, trading could very well put you into worse accuracy.
 
Nothing to complain about 1 MOA out of a factory rifle, especially using factory ammunition. I would keep the MRS unless you are trying to save weight.

While my Savage Model 12FVL with heavy varmint barrel does shoot 3/4 MOA at 100 yards, it does not have a factory stock and is bedded into a Choate Varmint stock. I also had to go through different factory ammo and reloads util I found the ammo it shoots well.

I can say that my Savage with the varmint barrel and Choate stock isn't much lighter than my Palmetto State Armory 308 AR. Both are too heavy to be carrying through the woods for long periods.

Most new bolt action rifles are capable of 1 to 1 1/2 MOA right out of the box with the right ammunition. Getting one that shoots less than 1 MOA out of the box is less common.
 
A good bolt action is the way to get the best possible accuracy . Plus you don't have to be concerned about the load making the action function ... you work the bolt eliminating that aspect . The bolt gun can feed and extract ammo the AR will choke on .
Look at the Bechrest Shooters ... not very many will using an AR platform .
I actually prefer shooting and reloading for bolt action rifles ...just so much more satisfaction !
Gary
 
While, yes, the Bolt Action will ultimately be more accurate, it doesn’t happen right out of the box. An AR style rifle can also be incredibly accurate. .25moa is not an unreachable goal. Many, many AR10’s & 15’s have accomplished this. However, it’s not easy or CHEAP! Same goes for the bolt gun.

First decide what your personal goal is. What is it you are doing primarily? Hunting? Target shooting in competition? For fun? And of course, what is your realistic budget? Not to mention your realistic skill level.. For instance, myself. I’ve done this a long time, and have a great deal of working knowledge. At one time I was very, very accurate. Unfortunately, I was disabled several years ago. To add to, my left eye is completely blind & my Right is heavily corrected with astigmatism. My Left arm is also completely paralyzed. Now, I can still shoot with decent accuracy. Meaning, I can HIT a man sized target at various distances. But shooting those teeny-tiny little groups on a target is no longer in my purview. It’s not part of my skillset any longer. Of course I still go for as accurate as I’m able, but Ultimate Accuracy is not the sole factor behind my choices. I’m a DIY guy. A Hobbyist gunsmith, builder. And even machining my own parts. That brings me joy. Im also a Savage loyalist. I very much like Savage 110 rifles, since I purchased my first one at age 18. My current bench gun is a Savage 10 Action with a considerable amount of money invested in it. While I “could” have built up a Custom Action like a Kelbly’s, Big Horn or Curtis had I been so inclined…. and yes, one of those are capable of better accuracy, it would do me bo good. My Savage Bench gun is more accurate than I am. My groups on paper would see no increase whether using it or a Custom, because my body no longer possess the tools to take advantage of the POTENTIAL better accuracy. And in the end I would not enjoy one of those as much as I enjoy working on Savage Actions. I enjoy making the Actions work better.

So do what you know will bring you the most joy that will meet your budget. I hope maybe that makes sense to some. :)
 
 
Arm or Ally has the best price for the MagPul PRS Gen 3 stock. they sell it for $191.16

https://www.armorally.com/shop/magpul-prs-gen-3-precision-adjustable-stock/

I have the LuthAR MBA-1 and MBA-4 along with the MagPul PRS Gen 2 and Gen 3 and the MagPul PRS Lite. While the MagPul stocks do cost more, they are better built than the LuthAR stocks. The LuthAR stocks are flimsy and cheap feeling compared to the MagPul stocks.
 
Shooting tiny little groups is a lot of fun!
I had a Model 12 Savage in 300wsm. It was a 1/2 shooter when I did my part. A 308 in a heavy barrel varmint style rifle is a ton of fun from the bench and would work from the hunting blind.
 
I would honestly save a little cash and go on a drive through some rural pawn shops and look for a recent-production bolt rifle to work with, just to be able to compare. If you find you like one better you can choose.

Keep in mind, MOA is a relatively recent standard. It used to be, (say, more than 20 years ago,) if you wanted MOA from a rifle, you have to take it to a smith, have the action squared and trued, recrowned, etc. Then you would STILL have to develop handloads to find the sweet spot. Now, if we buy a rifle off the rack new, and it won't get at least close to MOA out of the box with good ammo, we call the factory and complain.

I now have my grandfather's 1917 Enfield in 30-06. He was a far better shot with that than I am with my custom built AR-10 in .243, that will do MOA off a sandbag. I really think a lot of this is us being spoiled, having the option to substitute quality for skill.
 
I’ve pondered this very question. Sell my PA10 and get a bolt action in the same caliber. I’ve been pondering it for 2 years now. I still have the PA10 and with my hand loads it still shoots under 1 MOA. I don’t shoot it often but it’s a hoot when I do.

I wanted the bolt to experiment with different loads that would only work in a manual action, mostly cast loads. For that I use my 336 in 30-30 now.
 
I certainly understand boasting your Grandfathers skill level, but claiming he was MORE accurate with a Lee Enfield than you with your AR10 means either you really have trouble grouping or your AR is very poorly built. :scrutiny:

Any quality AR10 will gladly group below 2moa. Many, as the OP’s will do around 1MOA. An Enfield doing even 1 MOA would be truly a diamond in the rough. For the most part part, the very best I’ve seen with Match Reloads is between 1.5-2MOA. While they are 3-4MOA with surplus ammo. (What is mostly shot with them through the years.) And no amount of skill from the shooter will change that.

I can understand if it’s a custom built, using only the Action, since yours is in 30-06.
 
David Hoback said:
I certainly understand boasting your Grandfathers skill level, but claiming he was MORE accurate with a Lee Enfield than you with your AR10 means either you really have trouble grouping or your AR is very poorly built. :scrutiny:

Any quality AR10 will gladly group below 2moa. Many, as the OP’s will do around 1MOA. An Enfield doing even 1 MOA would be truly a diamond in the rough. For the most part part, the very best I’ve seen with Match Reloads is between 1.5-2MOA. While they are 3-4MOA with surplus ammo. (What is mostly shot with them through the years.) And no amount of skill from the shooter will change that.

I can understand if it’s a custom built, using only the Action, since yours is in 30-06.
Click to expand...

That isn't what I said. I said I KNOW the .243 is more accurate. I said rifle accuracy and shooting skill are two different things.
 
For several years I used a custom AR in .358 WSSM wildcat for deer. It had a Shilen Match grade barrel and shot multiple sub 1/2” groups off a good bench. Accuracy and power were there.

I just never could fall in love with it for deer. It was cold to hold, noisy to carry, heavy, and I thought cumbersome.

Finding a plenty accurate bolt deer rifle should be pretty straightforward. Mine is a Browning X-Bolt that seems just as accurate and IMO is far more pleasant to use
 
Released/sold a Remington R-25 tree stand camo AR-10 that had been around for years. It would have occasional FTF to deal with, was decently accurate but never really scratched an itch.

Also have a Winchester SX-AR (FN-AR in mossy oak brush) which saw much more field action for hunting etc. So the R-25 left the building. Was originally thinking 308 bolt gun myself but never went down that path.
 
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