Criminals with body armor

[Kentucky]

In response for a recent request for documented cases of criminals using body armor......

Bizarre Home Invasion Robbery
BY ROEDER
PUBLISHED ON August 17, 2002
Yakima Herald-Republic (WA)
Page: 1C-2

By TOM ROEDER YAKIMA HERALD-REPUBLIC

A band of pistol-brandishing robbers clad in bullet-proof vests invaded a Cle Elum home on Friday, tying up a woman and stealing property before they fled.

The complexity and obvious planning behind the crime left police in the area stunned. The robbers, as many as six, remained on the loose Friday night. Early leads in the case indicate that crooks are from the Seattle area.

Source: KRISTY EPPLEY RUPON, Staff Writer
Batesburg-Leesville Police Chief Wallace Oswald helped create a 2001 law making it a felony for anyone to wear a bulletproof vest while committing a violent crime. This weekend, Oswald got a chance to put that law into action, as two men were arrested after a violent home invasion and shootout with police Friday night in Batesburg-Leesville. A third suspect was still on the run. Oswald said the man who shot at police was wearing "a military-issue-type body armor that we wore

Published on January 22, 2006, Page B1, State, The (Columbia, SC)

Kelly Shoff/Chris Fleszar/Gita Pullapilly

Created: 1/5/2005 2:12:15 PM
Updated: 1/5/2005 10:28:15 PM

Atlanta, Georgia -

Nelson and Jackson were arrested without incident in Atlanta today. Otis is being held on a 13 count felony warrant.

Among the charges Nelson faces: 2 counts of home invasion, 6 counts of felony firearm, 2 counts of assault with intent to murder, 2 counts of kidnapping, 1 count of possession of body armor during an assaultive crime.

Robbers Stymie Area Police

By Del Quentin Wilber
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, July 12, 2004; Page A01

The bank robberies unfold in a matter of minutes as the masked, highly disciplined assailants threaten employees and customers with assault rifles and handguns and swiftly grab bundles of cash.

...............

The choice of vehicles has also intrigued detectives.

The men have stolen mostly Acuras and minivans, both common on area streets and unlikely to raise much suspicion. The vans offer the gunmen room to maneuver in bulky body armor

This was just a quick search, I am sure a more detailed search would turn up many more cases.

 

[crofrog]

This is why I'm of the opinion that rifles are the apporiate tool for home-defense.

 

[Kentucky]

I also use a rifle for HD, but not for this reason. I think my chances of running into a criminal with body armor are pretty slim. Of course, I also think that the chances of needing to use a gun to defend myself are pretty slim, but that doesnt stop me from having one just in case.

Your chances of needing to use deadly force are slim, your chances of having to use deadly force against criminals with body armor are slimmer still, it is all a matter of percentages. I question though why some who are 2A supporters, despite the odds against needing to defend yourself with deadly force, feel like it is unreasonable for citizens to prepare themselves to deal with this threat. To be honest, I believe there is an elitist view from some of the LEO's, and an overprotectiveness of"their" stomping grounds.

Another example of this is "clearing houses." There are people on here who insist that only police officers are capable of "clearing houses". This is insane. I guarentee you if you go bumping around in my grandpa's house tonight he is not going to sit back in his bedroom and wait for police to arrive, you are gonna probably meet the business end of his 16 gauge. I understand that all the keyboard commandos on these boards call for some moderation, but it is being WAAY overdone.

 

[MathurinKerbouchard]

It wold be real nice if some manufacturers would start producing some pistols in 7.62 Tokarev. And that the pistols were rated for hot loads too.

 

[sicario103]

Posted by Kentucky

Another example of this is "clearing houses." There are people on here who insist that only police officers are capable of "clearing houses".

I for one, do not agree that only cops are capable of clearing a house. But at the same time, I don't think all people should be doing this either without some sort of training. There's more to it then just going from room to room with your gun high.

It's never a bad thing to be prepared or have a little extra firepower~ personally I would love to have one of those walk-in gun safes all filled up like in Commando ~ but any weapon with a decent caliber should be enough to stop or at least discourage any BG's in body armor after you pump him a couple of times.

 

[Thefabulousfink]

Criminals with body armor?

Use Mace!
http://www.museumreplicas.com/webstore/eCat/swords_and_knives/historical/axes_hammers_and_maces/16th_century_italian_mace.aspx

Otherwise, I allways have one or two rifle mags loaded and it doesn't take long to insert a mag and pull the charging handle.

 

[Kentucky]

I for one, do not agree that only cops are capable of clearing a house. But at the same time, I don't think all people should be doing this either without some sort of training. There's more to it then just going from room to room with your gun high.

I understand that not everyone should do it. To be honest, there are some people that should not probably even be handling guns, training or no. I strongly agree with the old adage that training is more important than equipment. But I also believe that personal makeup is at least as important as training. Some people have more capacity for such things than others do.

 

[Optical Serenity]

While cops are not the only people who can clear a building, why would you want to?

Why not let us who have training + equipment + it's our job! Let the officer take the danger, its just smarter.

I've never had a problem with someone clearing their own house. After all, it's their house...

Its just that I think it takes very specialized training, and continuous training to be good at it.

 

[Kentucky]

While cops are not the only people who can clear a building, why would you want to?

If I dont have a personal interest in the building or owners, or feel that someone is in jeapordy, then there is no way I do. I certainly am not looking for any chances to spend time in court just to play with my toys. But to me there is a disturbing trend of people not wanting to stand up for themselves against aggressors, or go any bit out of their way to help others in situations like these. I guess I am just caught on a day when I am frustrated with our whole country, but I am sick of hearing that only armed government employees are capable of this, or should be allowed to own that, or should respond to this situation.

 

[CornCod]

With all the body armor floating around, maybe I should consider using the CZ-52 in 7.62X25 as my primary home defense weapon. They say it has good performance against the cheaper brands of body armor. Anybody done any tests on this?

 

[Thefabulousfink]

CZ-52 vs. Kevlar helmet
http://theboxotruth.com/docs/bot29.htm

As for sweeping buildings: I have woken up in the middle of the night to a noise and gone through my house with my pistol and flashlight. I check all the rooms and make sure all the doors and windows are locked. I never go outside, but I look to make sure that gates and garage doors are closed and nothing is out of the ordinary. All I have ever found is stray animals in the yard, but I still do the sweeps.

I am not going to hear some strange noise and just go back to sleep. I am not going to call the police, wait for them to arive, wait for them to check the house, and then leave when they discover that it was just dogs digging through the trash. I will call the police if I see/hear BG on the property, but otherwise I'll check it myself.

 

[Jeff White]

There will be no discussion of any handgun load or any attempt to defeat body armor with a handgun here. Is that understood? The last thing we need is for someone to:

1) Go buy some soft body armor off of e-bay and get his loading manual out and come up with some super hot load to defeat soft body armor and post it here.

2) For someone else to surf into THR, read about such a load, duplicate it and load it into his WWII bringback Frommer Stop .32 ACP and then have a KABOOM.

3) For the authorities to decide that based on the information here that there needs to be additional restrictions on bullet types or reloading components.

All anyone here needs to know about soft body armor is that almost anything out of a rifle will defeat it. You have to have hard plates, plastic, ceramic or steel to stop rifle rounds. If you need to defeat someone wearing body armor you can train to do a failure drill or you can use a rifle.

As for criminals wearing body armor, you have to remember that we live in a large country with a population of 300 million people and body armor does exist. That means some criminals will get it and wear it. But the likelyhood of you, the average person ever needing to worry about home invaders wearing body armor is almost nil.

Home invasion committed by criminals on random targets is the stuff of Hollywood. Yes, in a nation of 300 million souls it's probably happened. But by and large home invasions fall into a few categories:

Assailants who break into a home to beat up, stab or shoot someone who has given them reason to believe the victims need beaten, shot or stabbed for some reason, a real or percieved insult, a bad business deal....In these cases the victim knows the assailant and in many cases they may even be related. This is the most common home invasion. The best defense against this is don't associate with the kind of people who think this kind of behavior is the way to settle disputes.

Drug dealers and users ripping each other off Defense against this, which is probably the second most common home invasion is simple, don't deal in drugs, use them or hang around with those that do.

The victim is known to keep a large amount of cash ot other valuables in the home. In this case as well the victim is usually tied to the assailant in some way. The best defense, don't keep large amounts of cash, jewelry or other easily fenced valuables in your home. If you do, don't tell anyone about it.

This topic is closed....

Jeff