Crimping Coated Lead Bullets

[anbrumm]

I have been looking at coated lead bullets, but have never messed with them before. Do you crimp them just like crimping a plated bullet? I have seen a lot of people mention .356, but some of the companies I've looked at for coated lead show as .355.

I was looking around, it looks like a lot of companies make coated lead. What is every ones thoughts of Blue Bullets? I am interested in trying them out as I have heard good reviews for competition loads.

 

[Reefinmike]

9mm I assume? On any semi auto load, you dont really actually want to crimp, you just want to take out any belling of the case mouth that you applied to allow seating the bullet. actually trying to crimp the case into the shaft of the bullet will only deform the bullet resulting in a loss of neck tension.

revolver bullets generally have a crimp groove or cannelure for you to roll crimp into. A firm roll crimp is required when loading top end magnum loads with heavy recoil and difficult to ignite ball powders.

as for the bullet diameter, if you are loading 9mm, 355 should be ok as long as your barrel isn't oversized however it would not hurt to just go ahead and buy the .356, they will likely shoot a hair better. Have you slugged your barrel? My beretta m9 came out at .358(which is apparently somewhat common) so I actually use .358 powder coated lead bullets. conveniently I can use the same bullets in both 38spl and 9mm.

 

[GLOOB]

+1

If you want ammo that feeds everytime, makes a bang, and puts holes in paper at 20 yards, or if your chamber is super tight, then go with the .355.

If you want accurate ammo for a specific gun and you are willing to do some work and testing, then buy 356+ bullets.

There is no such thing as a cast bullet that is too big, until you start having chambering problems. So unless you want to make ammo that works in ANY gun past, present or future, you really can't go too big until you run into chambering/feeding problems.

If you care about safety and accuracy, taper crimp only as much as you need to get the bullet to plunk in your gun, IMO. In my 9mm Glock, this means I don't even need to quite remove all the flare.

In my 40SW Glock, the chamber is so tight I have to sort my brass and separate out thicker cases. A 401 bullet won't chamber without an excessive crimp.... and when the bullet fires, the crimp doesn't have room to open up. The bullet gets case-sized down to abour 400 mil, and this results in lead fouling.

There are a lot of things to watch out for if you care about accuracy with cast/coated bullets. First step in 9mm is to go ahead and buy a proper expander plug for 9mm. The one you got with your dies is no good.

 

[Reefinmike]

In my 9mm Glock, this means I don't even need to quite remove all the flare.

+1 due to varying brass thickness and the already somewhat finnicky nature of loading cast 9mm, I often do the same, leaving the slightest little bit of air space between the case mouth and bullet shank. crimping the brass flush with the bullet isnt going to increase neck tension and this way, extra thick brass wont crimp into the bullet.

 

[noylj]

I have always considered coated the same as other cast lead bullets--they generally need to be at least 0.001" over actual groove diameter. In 9x19, groove diameters of 0.355-0.359" are in-spec. Thus, you need to slug your barrel.
I would not even consider a 0.355" cast bullet in any of my 9x19s.
In fact, I use 0.357-0.358" lead bullets in all of them. Likewise, I prefer 0.356-0.357" jacketed bullets and will probably never again run a plated bullet down a bore (unless it's a Gold Dot).
What creates bullet tension is having the case ID be 0.001-0.002" less than bullet diameter (in fact, generally if you seat a 0.357" bullet in a 0.352" ID case, when you pull the bullet after seating, you'll find 0.001" difference between the bullet diameter and the case ID--the case may have been expanded by the bullet or the bullet may have been swaged down by the case, but the difference between the two is surprisingly enough, generally 0.001").
Taper crimp is simply NOT there to hold the bullet, it is there to remove the case mouth flare. With revolvers, you need a roll crimp because recoil forces try very hard to pull the bullet OUT OF THE BARREL. Totally different from the recoil impulse in a semi-auto. If you crimp enough to cut the coating or plating, you could have not just bad accuracy but a leaded barrel on your hands.
For accuracy, I tend to go to swaged rather than cast bullets. Thus, for coated bullets, I really like Precision Bullets (Kemp, TX?). These have always been super-accurate in all my guns and do EVERYTHING I could ask of a coated bullet.

 

[GLOOB]

In fact, I use 0.357-0.358" lead bullets in all of them. Likewise, I prefer 0.356-0.357" jacketed bullets and will probably never again run a plated bullet down a bore (unless it's a Gold Dot).
What creates bullet tension is having the case ID be 0.001-0.002" less than bullet diameter (in fact, generally if you seat a 0.357" bullet in a 0.352" ID case, when you pull the bullet after seating, you'll find 0.001" difference between the bullet diameter and the case ID--the case may have been expanded by the bullet or the bullet may have been swaged down by the case, but the difference between the two is surprisingly enough, generally 0.001").

This is why the expander that came with your dies is no good. It is probably .353 mil. This leaves a case about 351-352. For a .355 jacketed bullet, even, this is way smaller than necessary. It's ok, because the jacket is thick and opens up the case the rest of the way.

For 356 cast bullets, you want an expander about 356 in diameter, with a flare about 3-4 mils larger than that. IMO. Pull a bullet from a case. Then seat it back into the same case. You will find it has plenty of neck tension. It's that last 1-2 mils of "spring" that holds the bullet in. Now, overcrimp it (and/or if 356+ cast, run it thru an FCD). And watch it lose neck tension.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I have never loaded a coated bullet for a revolver cartridge but have for semi-auto cartridges. For the 9mm I taper crimp the same as I would for any other bullet I use for the 9mm.

 

[drband]

I've loaded MBC coated in 44mag only--no 9mm experience with MBC.
I find the coated bullets to load and crimp like plain lead bullets in a revolver. I've used light to heavy roll crimp with no problems in light to full house magnum loads. As long as your bullet fits your bore, you should have no problems.

 

[anbrumm]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I am going to order some .356 or .357 coated lead to try out. It looks like using the same taper crimp that I use on the plated should be fine.

 

[Walkalong]

I set up a taper crimp to remove the bell on the shortest 9MM cases, which means the longer ones get a tad of inward crimp. I never worried about measuring it. I haven't shot coated 9MM bullets, but would set the crimp the same.

There is no such thing as a cast bullet that is too big, until you start having chambering problems

Pretty much.

 

[mdi]

I'd say reread post #2. I have only loaded 1000 or so coated (Precision) and mebbe another 1100 PCed bullets and I treat them just like I do my cast lead bullets. I size them the same (normally .002"-.003" over groove dia.) and use lead bullet load data. Never had a problem and none of my loads are "too slow"...

 

[PO2Hammer]

I use .45 and .357 Blue Bullets. For the .451" 200 SWC I just lightly taper crimp up against the side of the bullet, maybe a .002" crimp. (same as plated for me) No leading with the .451" diameter in my HK.

In my 357 I had leading with another company's .357" coated bullet, then switched to the Blue Bullets .358" 125 RN. I seat them deep and taper crimp on the nose.

Very satisfied with the Blue Bullets, excellent accuracy & consistency in both calibers, and they have no smell when fired, unlike HyTek. They seem to leave less residue in my HK as well. In .357 they are as clean as jacketed or plated.

FWIW, the .451" measures .4517" and the .358" measures .3587" with my good micrometer, so they do run a little oversize, which is a good thing.

With coated bullets it seems like polygonal bores foul more than traditional rifling.