Crooked bullets

[wizard1911]

Last week I reloaded around 100 223's. I should have known something was wrong when everything went perfectly. No dropped bullets and every charge was almost perfect. When I finished, I was putting things away when one of the rounds rolled across my bench and it wobbled. I checked several others and most of them wobbled as well. I believe I was holding the cases wrong when I was chamfering them. Anyone else have this problem and what did you do about it. The only solution I have come up with is to pull all the bullets and throw the cases away. I thought about shooting them but.... Anyone have any thoughts about this?

 

[Reefinmike]

First thing i would do is pull your seating stem and see how well it fits the bullets. The tip of the bullet shouldnt be making any contact in the seating stem. Just the ogive or "shoulder) of the bullet should be making contact.

 

[RainDodger]

It's not due to the way your cases were chamfered. As mentioned above, check your die and pay special attention to the seating stem. It must be centered perfectly... and I assume you are using the correct seating stem for the shape of the bullet you are loading....

 

[wizard1911]

Crooked bulletd

That was the first thing I looked at and it checked out. Then I reloaded some without the chamfer and all was well. What do you think about shooting the crooked ones?

 

[ReloaderFred]

Shoot them.

Fred

 

[noylj]

There is no safety issue.
If you worry, get a Hornady Lock-N-Load Ammunition Concentricity Gage.

 

[gamestalker]

I hear a lot of this from friends, and it almost always involves .223. IMO and experience, if the case mouth isn't properly chamfered, the bullet will grab unevenly as it enters the neck, thus causing the neck to get off set.

And the other possible cause is of course a seating stem that doesn't contact the olgive, thus seating off of the nose of the bullet, which is not good for several reasons.

Also check to make sure the seating stem isn't bent.

And make sure the decapping rod / expander button assembly is centering up during resizing. Something I've done for many years to keep the necks from getting pulled or pushed off center, is I loosen the nut that locks the threads on the assembly stem, thus free floating. By doing that, it allows the rod / assembly to follow the position of the neck, rather than the assembly to dictating the position of the assembly / rod.

Other than those tactic I utilize, I can't think of much, as I haven't ever had much of an issue with this.

GS

 

[RainDodger]

Another thought is the Hornady New Dimension seating die. The seating plug slides up and down, so it stays in contact with the bullet the whole time it is being seated. Nice dies.

 

[spitballer]

The last box of .223 factory ammo I ever bought wobbled just like you described and it was manufactured by a company we all know well and buy reloading components from. I'll admit I'm kind of picky about my ammo but this really stuck in my craw. Don't blame you for being concerned about wobbly rounds. Good luck to you and FWIW I've never had this problem myself since switching to a chamber-type seater.

 

[fguffey]

Crooked bullets

When my bullets get seated and are crooked I want to know when they got crooked. My seating dies do not have case body support. For me it is important to align the neck of the case with the bullet.

When seating bullets most seating dies require the reloader to place the bullet on top of the case and raise the ram. By design the seating die will guide the bullet if it tilts or leans, that does not mean the bullet is not canted when it starts into the case neck. Then there are dies with bullet guides that set on the shoulder of the case, there are seating dies that allow the bullet to be dropped through the guide while the guide is setting on the shoulder of the case.

I made a seater, the seater does not have a die body, when seating bullets the bullet is aligned with the neck of the case. The amount of effort to seat the bullet when starting the bullet into the neck is reduced.

Then there is that part about rolling ammo to determine if wobbles, has run out or is crooked, that works, there are methods/techniques that can be used to improve on the accuracy.

F. Guffey

 

[gamestalker]

This is also one of the reasons I prefer competition dies, I can feel confident that the bullet will start straight.

But something I do when using standard seating die, is I will make a couple of light ram raises, while lightly tapping the bullet into alignment. It just kind of helps to get the bullet olgive aligned into the seating stem before driving it home.

But none of that will help anything if one can't identify when it's happening, therefore check the necks immediately after resizing. If it's happening during resizing it's possible that the case head isn't being completely pushed into the shell holder which will most certainly cause problems.

GS

 

[spitballer]

I will make a couple of light ram raises, while lightly tapping the bullet into alignment. It just kind of helps to...

... roger that GS. Technique is important even with the best dies IMO

 

[sage5907]

The problem was caused by the case popping over to one side when it was pulled out of the sizing die. This caused the expander ball to be pulled through the case neck when the case was out of alignment with the die. This bends the case neck out of alignment with the base of the case. The solution is to push the base of the case to the back of the shell holder with your finger before the expander ball is pulled through the case neck. You need to do this every time you size a case as part of your sizing routine.

 

[Sunray]

Long ago, the shop I worked in got a sample of surplus bullets from Her Majesty's Canadian Prison system. All .30 cal SP's(yep, from our jails.). Boss rolled a few across the glass counter top and watched the pointy bit wobble off centre. He was aghast. Seemed to forget what SP's are for. Match bullets they ain't.
1) How flat is your bench?
2) Chamfering doesn't do that.
3) Shoot 'em. They're fine.

 

[345 DeSoto]

I bought a Hornady New Dimension seating die, removed the seater stem and dabbed in a bit of 5 minute JB weld in the seater. I reassembled it and gently lowered the ram on a greased .223 round with my Nosler Custom Comp 69gr HPBT bullet loaded in it. After 15 minutes, I took the seater out, cleaned it up, and never had a "wobbler" since. PERFECTLY centered bullets...

 

[Hardtarget]

Others have addressed the problem with really good advise. You'll find your problem spot and all will be fine. Now, about that ammo...if you're worried about accuracy just use them for CQB type double tap drills. a good way to use them since we need that practice anyway its a good use and far better than breaking down a bunch of loaded ammo!

Have fun with it!

Mark

 

[snuffy]

Another thought is the Hornady New Dimension seating die. The seating plug slides up and down, so it stays in contact with the bullet the whole time it is being seated. Nice dies.

I disagree! It's a good idea, but he application from Hornady is very flawed. By application I mean the actual machining of the die and it's interior parts.

The sliding chamber should hold a case neck with a slip fit, also the bullet. My set of dies from Hornady for 7-08, the chamber part that holds a bullet will allow a 30 cal bullet to pass through!!! (It could be they got a .308 chamber in a 7-08 die). Even if the chamber held the case neck and bullet firmly, the whole chamber is a very sloppy fit on the inside of the seater die.

Get a forester seater, their machining is excellent for fit and finish, It will cost more, but you do know you have to pay for quality!??

 

[gamestalker]

Something along the line of what Sage5907 said when resizing, not only do I like to make sure the case is completely seated into the shell holder, also very important, but I also jiggle the ram up and down a couple times when pulling the expander button back through the neck. It helps the case to center up before pulling that button back through.

" Just a little bit of this, and a little bit of that, a tweak and a twist, then a tap and a jiggle, keeps everything centered, right in the middle"

GS

 

[carsten1911]

Ah, yes, one of the thoughts comes from a young Lady who is quite a prize-collector in Silhouette Rifle competitions. She doesn´t care about babying her ammo and carries rounds loosely in a bag. Yes, they bang and bend each other to a good measure of eccentricity.

Why does she win with those crooked rounds?
1. She doesn´t care and concentrates on her shooting
2. She knows, that the ammo will be used in a gun...you know those thingies with chambers that pretty much straighten crooked bullets into the right direction.
3. She does NOT compete in benchrest.

So if you have non-benchrest application for your ammo in mind....shoot it.

Have fun.
Carsten

 

[W.E.G.]

from http://oostalk.ning.com/profiles/blogs/runout-what-does-it-mean

A running source of humor at our air-rifle matches has been the tool for correcting bullet runout that Steve Hoy bought last year at Camp Perry after the Remington reloading clinic. In his book Sight Alignment, Trigger Control, and the Big Lie, Jim Owens repeats the gospel that for best accuracy at 600 yards, we should only shoot cartridges with less than 0.003"-0.006" runout. Then he relates the story where he grabbed a box of ammo, went to the range, and shot a great score, only to look at the box and see it was the cartridges with large runout values he'd been saving back for the year. Oops. I've had the exact same experience--saving anything over .006", including up to 0.012" runout, then using it in a match and shooting a personal best. Just recently a good shooter told me the same story about himself. My RCBS runout measuring device pretty much just gathers dust on the shelf now.

 

[spitballer]

Why does she win with those crooked rounds?
1. She doesn´t care and concentrates on her shooting...

...again, technique. In her case shooting technique, and I agree with the old-timers that shooting technique trumps loading technique in many if not most cases. IMHO the best investment someone can make to improve their shooting technique is a quality trigger assembly that can be set to a light, crisp, and consistent trigger pull. And KEEPING IT LUBRICATED, esp if you're using an x-pro like mine: makes a big difference!

 

[Bart B.]

I ran a test with 5 different bullet seating dies including standard ones sold with sizing dies, chamber type one piece competition dies (Wilson), floating bullet chamber competition dies (RCBS) and one Bonaza floating neck section competition die. Their bullet chamber diameter ranged from .3085" to .3100"; the Wilson chamber die had the largest diameter bullet chamber.

They all seated bullets quite well aligned with case necks. Cases with their necks more crooked to the case axis changed very little after bullets were seated with all dies. Cases with their necks quite straight on their bodies all let bullets seated with each die end up with the same straight alignment.

Therefore, I think you could seat bullets with a ball peen hammer very straight if the case necks are straight on the case shoulder and case body to start with.

Redding has a good article on that in their web site's FAQ's.

 

[sage5907]

Bart B, I totally agree. If the case neck is aligned with the body of the case the bullet will seat straight. If the alignment is off the seating die is not going to correct the problem. When you start with a problem you end up with a problem.

 

[ku4hx]

My dead first experience with reloading was as a college freshman and my brother-in-law's 30-30. I used an article in, I think, Popular Mechanics magazine.

The process used a vice and a small hardwood block to seat the primer and that same vice and the end of a dowel (hollowed out to match bullet nose) to seat the bullet. I forget how the powder charge was derived but I vaguely remember it had a "by guess or by God" quality using the pictures in the article to get the "proper" charge.

As a teen I was both immortal and invulnerable so there were no worries.

Those few rounds I loaded never harvested anything but an old gallon paint can, but they did go boom and the can was ventilate.

 

[W.E.G.]

Once I started shooting EIC matches, it too me about four years before I earned any EIC points.

Then, within 13 months, I earned 26 EIC points.

Then, family obligations took precedence for 11 years, and I fired zero EIC matches.

When I got back into it, about 5 years ago, I got "first leather" in the very first EIC match I shot.
About a half-dozen EIC matches later, I finally got those last four points.
Eight actually. Silver Medal at Camp Perry in 2014.