D.C. Police want to search homes for illegal weapons

[Officers'Wife]

OK, first off, let's not forget the Supreme Court has ruled the LEO's are allowed to use 'reasonable deception.' I've always been under the impression that only a DA, a judge or a governor could grant (state) amnesty. Maybe it's different in DC but I can't see a police chief being given that kind of authority.

In short, this batch of LEO's are using this 'reasonable deception' to deny citizens the 4th amendment protections under the color of law. This isn't a 'safety procedure' it's a fishing trip.

Selena

 

[ShunZu]

My take is that it's partly a bluff tactic to scare people into letting them in so they can gather up all the guns that they can before the SCOTUS rules against them

You may have it, Tuner. Could this be the last desperate gasp? Maybe they're hearing things that we're not priivy to and already feel they're about to lose a major battle in the courts?

 

[RLsnow]

Aye, i was under the impression that cops can say anything they want, to get you to do/give them what they want.

So they can lie to to make you let them inn (thus consenting to a search?)..

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

some might wanna read the wording on the amnesty carefully


and the new chief is a poster child for pc affirmative action

 

[GeezerwithGuns]

Warrentless searches and seizures?

You could replace "Washington DC" with Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, North Korea etc.

What? Haven't these idiots read the Constitution?

 

[Officers'Wife]

RLSnow,

So they can lie to to make you let them inn (thus consenting to a search?)..

My brother in law brags about similar. He is most proud of when he asked a (unknowing) suspect if he could 'get in out of the rain. Once invited in he had consent for limited search. Unfortunately the baggie of 'drugs' on the kitchen counter turned out to be catnip rather than three kilo of marijuana. The victim was given an apology but not compensated for losing his job or the legal fees he incurred.

I'm told my sister has always had poor taste in men.

Selena

 

[papajohn]

Maybe this is a stupid question, but why would ANYONE let the cops into their house, for ANY reason? "Sure officers, come on in, feel free to dump all my drawers out on the floor, rifle through my file cabinets, empty my closet, and then when you're satisfied I'm not able to defend myself against criminal scum, leave me to clean up your mess."

Hel-LO?

PJ

 

[rust collector]

Papajohn, it's human nature to accommodate requests, we are taught from the cradle to obey the person in uniform, and most of us believe we are not criminals. Add to that media spin, a desire for peace and tranquility, and ignorance about the thousands of laws that are passed as a substitute for common sense and understanding, and you can see trouble on the horizon.

This is not and should not be a cop bashing thread, because politicians and special interest groups have set this up. It probably seemed like a good idea in other "more civilized" settings, too, but what ensues is increased conflict between authorities and citizens that drives further wedges between the government and the governed.

 

[1911Tuner]

This is not and should not be a cop bashing thread, because politicians and special interest groups have set this up.

Bingo...and you can likely trace it directly to the mayor and the city council...even though the mayor and his cronies have no authority to offer or even propose an amnesty of this type.

The cops are just the muscle, doing whatever their masters command...although they do have a measure of culpability by enforcing such an order.

But, at least they're asking for permisission to enter first. The question remains, though. Will they use a refusal as grounds for a probable cause warrant?

That's where it'll cross the line into unreasonable search and seizure..

 

[Sage of Seattle]

even though the mayor and his cronies have no authority to offer or even propose an amnesty of this type.

They don't? How dare you, Tuner, question the upper echelon of our government! There has been NO known abuse of authority when it comes to mayors! Get your story right! *coughbloombergcough* Ahem, sorry, got something stuck in my craw...er... throat...

The cops are just the muscle, doing whatever their masters command...although they do have a measure of culpability by enforcing such an order.

Yes, I agree. The problem in my mind is the translation from "let's solve 'problem' x" into "we will do whatever is most expedient so we don't have to fill out as much paperwork."

Let me say this once more for emphasis: cops can lie -- you have the right to remain silent. Use it! And by "right to remain silent" I really mean "keep everything quiet, including the nose, eyes, ears of the police."

But, at least they're asking for permisission to enter first. The question remains, though. Will they use a refusal as grounds for a probable cause warrant?

I think you know that mere assertion of one's rights cannot be used against them, nor does it rise to the level of probable cause.

Maybe this is a stupid question, but why would ANYONE let the cops into their house, for ANY reason?

Rust collector nailed it spot-on. The simple fact is that people have bought into the lie of "if you've got nothing to hide, why won't you let us in?"

My response to such a question would be, "it is irrelevant whether or not I have something to hide, it's simply a case of me holding you to the rules set forth by the government and the people. Have probable cause and get a warrant." I figure if I practice it a lot I may be able to say that, rather than squeak out "don't tase me, bro!" with a passle of cops sitting on my spine...

 

[jakemccoy]

If they want to win Heller, this fiasco sure isn't helping their cause - good.

 

[jakemccoy]

papajohn wrote,

Maybe this is a stupid question, but why would ANYONE let the cops into their house, for ANY reason?

Their mentality is that they have nothing to hide. That's a common mindset before you understand your rights and before you think about how cops operate.

 

[1911Tuner]

I think you know that mere assertion of one's rights cannot be used against them, nor does it rise to the level of probable cause.

Yes, I do. I've also known of refusals to allow a vehicle to be searched resulting in detainment until a warrant can be delivered...on no more probable cause than a speeding violation. The reason given? "If you don't have anything to hide...why won't you let me look?"

I realize that the same set of rules for a residence don't apply in full force on the highway...but could this be the next step?

I'm just sayin'...

 

[Sebastian the Ibis]

The D.C. Police are lying, or they are crafting a really narrow exception so that they can arrest people anyway.

Generally only a prosecutor can grant immunity, police almost never can (and the exceptions are mostly limited to prosecutor starting an interrogation and a detective finishing it or something like that) that is why everyone goes to jail once they open up to the nice cop trying to help them. Therefore this immunity scheme has to be done by a legislature - Congress or the D.C. City Council.

The D.C. statutes are really specific and D.C. has not hesitated to prosecute people who try to comply but technically don’t.

The D.C. law I assume the police are currently relying on is D.C.Code § 7-2507.05(a) (2001) which provides in relevant part: If a person or organization within the District voluntarily and peaceably delivers and abandons to the Chief any firearm ... or ammunition at any time, such delivery shall preclude the arrest and prosecution of such person on a charge of violating any provision of this unit with respect to the firearm ... or ammunition voluntarily delivered. Delivery under this section may be made at any police district, station, or central headquarters, or by summoning a police officer to the person's residence .... Every firearm ... to be delivered and abandoned to the Chief under this section shall be unloaded and securely wrapped in a package, and, in the case of delivery to a police facility, the package shall be carried in open view...

In Lewis v. U.S. 871 A.2d 470 (D.C. 2005) a woman was arrested for turning in her roommates guns because the guns were loaded, when the statute said they had to be unloaded.

Also take a look at Stein v. U.S. 532 A.2d 641 (D.C. cir 1987), Ted Kennedy's body guard was arrested and did not get immunity because he turned guns over to the Capitol Police who do not count under the immunity statute, only city police (or whomever “the Chief” is) count under this law. It also did not matter that he was a former Californian Police Chief, who was registered to carry a gun everywhere else he went including foreign countries.

The case also says that the "Statute providing immunity from weapons prosecution for one whose possession of weapon was solely in order to surrender it to police custody is restricted to violations of Firearms Control Regulations Act of 1975, and does not grant immunity from prosecution for any other firearm offenses." D.C.Code 1981, § 6-2375(a). Stein v. U.S., 532 A.2d 641 (D.C. Cir 1987)

So basically the cops realize the whole immunity thing goes out the door once Scalia takes the D.C. firearms law out behind the woodshed and puts a bullet in its head. So they are trying to use it while they have it.

Bottom Line: Even if you are a cop and your father is the chief of police, NEVER EVER EVER respond to a cop without a lawyer, and never give permission. If he didn’t need it he wouldn’t ask.

 

[revjen45]

"So they can lie to to make you let them inn (thus consenting to a search?).."

No, it's impossible for the police to lie to the peons because when they say something that isn't true it's not lying. It's "permissible deception." If YOU tell THEM something that isn't true it's lying, and if you tell the Feds something they don't want to hear they will charge you with a felony, i.e lying to them. Yes, the police can tell you anything they think you are stupid enough to believe in the interest of fabricating a beef, and if you ARE stupid enough to believe them, then it's your bad. Remember, they have legions of lawyers and psycho-charlatans to advise them how to get you to say something the law can throw in your face.

 

[evilelvis]

Probably won't process for find a bag of weed but you know very well they will come back in full force and prosecute if they find a firearm that was used in any type of crime...each illegal item found at each house is going to be carefully linked to the address. Amnesty my ass!

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

its kinda funny how loudly they shreik from anywhere but dc. relax folks this one was still borne. any of you folks wanna come down to the highlands, in the daytime when you'll feel sorta safe. you can take a look and feel relieved. this was a joint effort at at a pc hand job by the new lame mayor and the affirmative action female police chief. they are both typical dc that is enept