Dad saves Daughter, shoots assailants holding her as a human shield

[Joe Demko]

I'm curious what the two home invaders were after. Despite what movies and TV tell us, such crimes are seldom random. The invaders typically believe, rightly or wrongly, that drugs, money, or valuables are present in great quantity. Or, they may be collecting on a debt or dealing with a rival.
Right now, this is being spun as a simple good guys/bad guys narrative. Let us hope it stays that way.

 

[CWL]

While I agree training is very important, I disagree that discussing what the best tool for the job is a false sense of security. The firearm is is a tool. Discussing what tool is best for the job is part of training as is discussing their strengths and weaknesses.

It would be like telling an aviation sheetmetal mechanic there is no good to discuss what riviting tool is best for the job at hand- rivit gun, ball pein hammer, bucking bar or rivit squeeze and that it is no good to discuss what rivit gun, hammer, bucking bar or squeeze works best because it will lead to a false sense of security.

What tool to use under what circumstances and what tools can be adapted to different situations is very important to know. Once the job is done, it's natural to want to know what tools & techniques the mechanic used & why and to assume that since the job was well done, the mechanic had the right training

While I can understand your argument and normally wouldn't have any problems when dealing with other tools, but if we look at your example, when you listed "ball peen hammer" - I noticed that you didn't bother to specify a certain brand of ball-peen?

Your own example generalizes the use of a tool down by function, and not by brand. -And your examples of "rivit gun, hammer, bucking bar or squeeze", would realistically be more in line with listing out "gun", knife, baseball bat..." rather than 4 specific brands of firearms.

With firearms on the internet, I have only seen people get caught-up in what "brand of gun", "what caliber is best", "what ammo is best" kind of distractions. Like I posted before, people are lazy and tend to gravitate to simple answers like believing certain guns will solve their SD/HD problems. They rarely, if ever, include personal responsibility of mental preparation and training in these discussions. Why take personal responsibility when you can buy the guns that Navy SEALs use and stoke it with SuperDuperMagicKillin' bullets?

I think the focus shouldn't get derailed like that. For me, what is interesting and worth learning is that both parents had the situational awareness to know a threat was coming, then had the mental clarity and determination to arm themselves and take immediate steps to protect their daughter from multiple armed intruders. I don't know if I would have responded as quickly.

This is obviously something they have planned and practiced. I would bet money that they would have responded in the same way had they only had .22lr pistols, leverguns, bolt-action rifles, or just baseball bats. For that, I salute their preparedness and willingness to not be victims. It was their actions and determination to survive that saved the day, it did not depend on what type of guns were in their hands.

 

[mgmorden]

I'm curious what the two home invaders were after. Despite what movies and TV tell us, such crimes are seldom random. The invaders typically believe, rightly or wrongly, that drugs, money, or valuables are present in great quantity. Or, they may be collecting on a debt or dealing with a rival.
Right now, this is being spun as a simple good guys/bad guys narrative. Let us hope it stays that way.

Its a sad reality, but a pretty young girl is often inventive enough for many criminals to strike. Not saying that was necessarily the motive here, but it certainly wouldn't be surprising.

 

[MistWolf]

While I can understand your argument and normally wouldn't have any problems when dealing with other tools, but if we look at your example, when you listed "ball peen hammer" - I noticed that you didn't bother to specify a certain brand of ball-peen?

Your own example generalizes the use of a tool down by function, and not by brand. -And your examples of "rivit gun, hammer, bucking bar or squeeze", would realistically be more in line with listing out "gun", knife, baseball bat..." rather than 4 specific brands of firearms

You overlooked this-

It would be like telling an aviation sheetmetal mechanic it is no good to discuss what riviting tool is best for the job at hand- rivit gun, ball pein hammer, bucking bar or rivit squeeze and that it is no good to discuss what rivit gun, hammer, bucking bar or squeeze works best because it will lead to a false sense of security

As an experienced Airframe & Powerplant Technician, I'm well aware of which ball pein hammers, rivit guns, bucking bars and squeezes work better than others, and what configuration is preferred and what modifications should be made for different situations- and why.

Training, skill and experience trumps gear, but the tools of the trade cannot be ignored and should be discussed. I'm good- real good- but not good enough to squeeze an NAS1097AD-6-6 rivit with just my forefinger and thumb

 

[Palehorseman]

But I thought HD buckshot plasters an entire wall at 10ft?

TCB

The accepted rule is shot pattern diameter increases 1" per yard. (5 inches at 5 yards, 10 inches at ten yards etc) But this can vary greatly dependent upon choke, bbl length and loads.

 

[rdhood]

You really think the type/brand of gun had anything to do with the shot being successful, like the father wouldn't have taken the shot if it was another brand?

No. Their success probably had more to do with situational awareness than the type of gun used. But it IS interesting to see what Mom and Pop six-pack successfully used to ambush the perps. I'd be interested to know what prompted/tipped them to the fact that these perps had their daughter.

All the NONSENSE about tools and types is wasted space by folks who just want to argue over any little thing.

What guns should be used is a discussion for another forum (tactics?). What guns were used and what tipped them off to prepare and ambush are the things we can glean from this real life situation that might help others plan for a successful ambush (if it ever becomes necessary) of their own.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Cortez McClinton, the surviving home intruder has been found guilty of 2nd degree murder in the death of his friend (the dead intruder). He should be sentenced for 10 years to life.

Oh, and he was a suspect in another murder previously, FYI...
http://www.kmov.com/story/31172362/man-convicted-of-murder-in-bevo-neighborhood-home-invasion

 

[ACP]

well done. one pos out of the bloodstream forever, another about to learn what the justice system is all about (no deal this time)

 

[Ignition Override]

Only the other article's top two lines are linked to this computer.

Double Nought Spy: Thanks for including the useable link.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Dad: 2 for 2.
Mom: 1 for 0.

Still, both are winners and 17 yr old daughter is safe! Mother needs more range time.

 

[old lady new shooter]

While I agree training is very important, I disagree that discussing what the best tool for the job is a false sense of security. The firearm is is a tool. Discussing what tool is best for the job is part of training as is discussing their strengths and weaknesses.

It would be like telling an aviation sheetmetal mechanic it is no good to discuss what riviting tool is best for the job at hand- rivit gun, ball pein hammer, bucking bar or rivit squeeze and that it is no good to discuss what rivit gun, hammer, bucking bar or squeeze works best because it will lead to a false sense of security.

What tool to use under what circumstances and what tools can be adapted to different situations is very important to know. Once the job is done, it's natural to want to know what tools & techniques the mechanic used & why and to assume that since the job was well done, the mechanic had the right training

Except that the "right tool" for person x may not be the "right tool" for person y. A lot depends on the person's physical capabilities, and personality also plays a role. We've certainly had enough conversations here about the importance of how a gun fits the hand, but the weight and overall size of the weapon can also make a significant difference.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Thanks for the follow-up on this older thread.

But just to settle the issue originally brought up with respect to the types of guns used, I took the liberty of re-writing the article some for clarification purposes. I hope this helps:

A husband and wife armed with guns were able to stave off an apparent home invasion Monday night using several tactical assault weapons from their private arsenal, police said.
.
.
.
The teen’s father, 34, saw the men walking up with his daughter, got his black tactical R&D ManBlaster fully automatic pump assault rifle shotgun, loaded with a full 10 round clip of patented BlastMaster 2000 armor piercing incendiary phelobotinum rounds, and fired several shots at them on full semi-automatic, striking both of the men as they entered his home. The teen’s mother, 34, also retrieved a suppressed porcelain Glock 7 and loaded it with a full 89 round clip of recursive explody ammo she scooped out of their ammo bin, and fired once at the men but did not hit either, police said.

So there you have it, all the information properly filled in.

 

[Strange Bob]

Thanks for the follow-up on this older thread.

But just to settle the issue originally brought up with respect to the types of guns used, I took the liberty of re-writing the article some for clarification purposes. I hope this helps:

A husband and wife armed with guns were able to stave off an apparent home invasion Monday night using several tactical assault weapons from their private arsenal, police said.
.
.
.
The teen’s father, 34, saw the men walking up with his daughter, got his black tactical R&D ManBlaster fully automatic pump assault rifle shotgun, loaded with a full 10 round clip of patented BlastMaster 2000 armor piercing incendiary phelobotinum rounds, and fired several shots at them on full semi-automatic, striking both of the men as they entered his home. The teen’s mother, 34, also retrieved a suppressed porcelain Glock 7 and loaded it with a full 89 round clip of recursive explody ammo she scooped out of their ammo bin, and fired once at the men but did not hit either, police said.

So there you have it, all the information properly filled in.

Thanks Chief. Your clarification rewrite gave my day a warm and fuzzy start!

 

[barnbwt]

You just don't mess with the Bronsons.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Not unless you have a Death Wish.

It is nice to know he was found guilty of several other charges as well including kidnapping, burglary and armed criminal action.

http://www.ktrs.com/man-convicted-of-murder-in-2014-st-louis-home-invasion/

 

[AR-15Nutt]

And every mothers day from that day forward I'd give my mom shooting lessons and a few boxes of ammo as a gift.

not necessary, she was most likely a bit nervous and is a very good shooter otherwise, try to imagine yourself in a similar situation, would you be cool, calm collected and not one bit excited and nervous??

don't think so!!

 

[Yo Mama]

I remember posting this! Thanks for the updates

 

[Elkins45]

To jump on a point that was originally discussed when this thread started: would proper reporting of a high speed chase need to tell us the brand and octane rating of the gas used?

 

[Drail]

I am pretty sure that if a goon had a gun to your daughter's head AND you had a sight picture on him you would be concentrating on your front sight on his skull and nothing else.

 

[Warp]

I'm curious what the two home invaders were after. Despite what movies and TV tell us, such crimes are seldom random. The invaders typically believe, rightly or wrongly, that drugs, money, or valuables are present in great quantity. Or, they may be collecting on a debt or dealing with a rival.
Right now, this is being spun as a simple good guys/bad guys narrative. Let us hope it stays that way.

Two masked men kidnapping a 17 year old girl makes you think they were after drugs or money?

 

[TimSr]

Two masked men kidnapping a 17 year old girl makes you think they were after drugs or money?

If kidnapping was the intended goal, I wouldn't think they would have marched her back into the house. I wasn;t there, and don't know, but it sounds to me like the girl was being used to gain access to the house without resistance (so they thought).

 

[joem1945]

Years ago I used to live in that area. It was pretty nice then. Not so much now I guess.

 

[Poper]

This isn't an area of St. Louis where things like this normally happen.

Such an incident proves that bad guys have cars, too.

 

[tomrkba]

I have bad news: drop $10k at the jewelry store in certain locations of the country and odds are one of the clerks has been paid to pass your personal information along to criminal elements. (Source: Organized Crime by Howard Abadinsky).

 

[yugorpk]

Such an incident proves that bad guys have cars, too.

I don't know. I brought that up on Google Maps and that is "The Ghetto". Looks like clean yards but Ghetto is the only way I can think of to describe it. Nothing wrong with folks in the ghetto defending themselves and their family but its not a quiet suburb. That is St Louis and it is what it is.