Decide, les baer, wilson combat, ?

[ericuda]

Asking for folks help here. Looking to upgrade to a higher grade 1911. I have Springfield a1 and just recently got a garrison. Honestly both of them treat me well.

Looking for advice on a Las baer, probably premier ii or a Wilson combat ?. Anyone have any pros and cons of either, done a lot of reading and a Wilson combat seems like the better choice but I am on the fence. There are so many options and I am not interested in a real custom gun just a shooter. Looking at Wilson on buds they only have 1 model and looks like a funky horizontal front lines on frontstrap. I think I'd prefer standard checkering.

Probably be my last 1911 as I have a lot of interests. Sticking to 2500 to 3. Lightly used is not an issue. I have looked at gunbroker too but the listings far exceed my knowledge.

Thx in advance

 

[C-grunt]

A buddy of mine had a Wilson for a while. Very well made gun. Smooth as butter. Shot extremely well. He sold it to fund a couple other nice pistols (Staccato and a Sig 10mm). I cant compare it to a Les Baer, but if your Wilson is anything like my friend's, you wont be disappointed.

 

[ericuda]

Thanks, i doubt id go wrong either way. I am in no hurry now, just collecting thoughts. Pretty good layout of cash.

 

[JTQ]

The Baer PII normally comes with adjustable target sights. If that is what you want, it is a good option. Just know not all 1911 sight dovetails are the same, and some dovetails may limit your options.

 

[Reinz]

I have multiples of Wilson, Nighthawk, and Brown. Only one Guncrafter, but plan to get another.

There is a reason I only have ONE Baer. They are not as refined. And their frames are out of spec. Lots of visible tool marks inside.

If you look down inside my frame through the top at the mag well, you can see where the Dremel got away from them and they didn’t even attempt to polish it out.

I have added Chen SI magwells to numerous different makes without issue, just drop right in. It took a few hours of hand fitting on my Baer.

Now, shooting wise? The Baer performs fantastic, no complaints. I love the performance.

Now talk about break in. Baers are hard fit. Meaning everything is not smoothed out completely. They recommend 500 rounds to break it in and don’t take it down to clean until you put at least 500 rounds through it; because they are tighter than a politician’s lips when it comes to truth.

The other semis are ready to go.

For spending that kind of money on a semi custom, pride of ownership and admiration of the craftsmanship is part of it for me. The Baer falls short in that department. However, the other guys charge significantly more. If you can only afford the Baer, get it and enjoy it. But don’t expect a Lexus for the price of a Lincoln.

 

[TomJ]

I've never owned a Les Baer but own two Wilsons, the EDC X9 and the X9s. As C-Grunt said they're smooth as butter, accurate and with thousands of rounds through the two of them I've had no malfunctions of any kind. They've exceeded my expectations.

 

[Anchorite]

I’ve currently got two Baers. Mine don‘t have the tool marks nor are the frames out of spec. Hard fit? Yesssir. They take some breaking in.

At any rate, I think with semi automatic pistols there is a point at which you aren’t gaining anything more mechanical regardless of how much money you throw into the project.

I also had an Ed Brown that I sold years ago before I got my first Baer. Also had a TRP. Talk about out of spec ….

I just think that dollar for dollar the Baer represents an incredible value in the 1911 market niche. I certainly couldn’t shoot the Brown (which costs more that the Baer) any better than the Baer. I guess I saved some money and invested in ammo to practice with. Baers just flat work. YMMV.

 

[tark]

They are not as refined. And their frames are out of spec. Lots of visible tool marks inside.

Out of spec...how? If you are going to claim that, give us evidence and proof. What is "out of spec" with them???

Lots of visible tool marks inside.

I have never seen any 1911 that didn't have visible tool marks inside. I have examined Korth's, at shot shows, that have visible machining marks on the OUTSIDE.

If you look down inside my frame through the top at the mag well, you can see where the Dremel got away from them and they didn’t even attempt to polish it out.

I worked for Les for 21 years. Dremel's never touched the area you describe.

Now talk about break in. Baers are hard fit. Meaning everything is not smoothed out completely.

That is not what "hard fit " means. It means that everything is held to minimum tolerances , and highly polished, so as to be as tight as possible while still insuring reliable functioning.

Now, shooting wise? The Baer performs fantastic, no complaints. I love the performance.

Pretty high praise for a gun with the frames out of spec and many unpolished machining marks.

 

[tark]

I’ve currently got two Baers. Mine don‘t have the tool marks nor are the frames out of spec. Hard fit? Yesssir. They take some breaking in.

I hear this a lot.

I just think that dollar for dollar the Baer represents an incredible value in the 1911 market niche. I certainly couldn’t shoot the Brown (which costs more that the Baer) any better than the Baer. I guess I saved some money and invested in ammo to practice with. Baers just flat work. YMMV.

I hear this a lot, as well.

 

[9mmepiphany]

In your price range and for your stated purpose, might I suggest taking a look at a Springfield Armory Professional.

The Professional would be my choice before either of the guns you've mentioned

 

[tomrkba]

Asking for folks help here. Looking to upgrade to a higher grade 1911. I have Springfield a1 and just recently got a garrison. Honestly both of them treat me well.

Looking for advice on a Las baer, probably premier ii or a Wilson combat ?. Anyone have any pros and cons of either, done a lot of reading and a Wilson combat seems like the better choice but I am on the fence. There are so many options and I am not interested in a real custom gun just a shooter. Looking at Wilson on buds they only have 1 model and looks like a funky horizontal front lines on frontstrap. I think I'd prefer standard checkering.

Probably be my last 1911 as I have a lot of interests. Sticking to 2500 to 3. Lightly used is not an issue. I have looked at gunbroker too but the listings far exceed my knowledge.

Thx in advance

I would choose Wilson Combat every time over Les Baer based upon customer service alone. I also dislike how tight the Les Baer guns are. The features between the two are fine; I do like how LB keeps the model features rather simple.

I think a Wilson Combat CQB would serve you well.

 

[Tinman357]

I found myself in the same boat awhile back. I wanted a top tier 45 without going full custom. I did a ton of research before making my descision. I listed my requirements and did a deep dive.

The Wilson Combat XTAC was the only one that met all my requirements out of the box with no modifications.

Get the Wilson.

 

[mavracer]

My one and only high end 1911 is a Les Baer. People in the know will look at my avatar and screen name and understand why I have a fondness for Les.
Their blue may not be the best but their fit is amazing and shooting is definitely hot rod worthy.

 

[JTQ]

delete

 

[tark]

. I also dislike how tight the Les Baer guns are.

Les has always backed off a bit on the "hard fit " If the customer requested it. We built a couple of guns for Steven Segal many years ago. He specifically asked for "easy to rack " slides.

 

[Reinz]

Out of spec...how? If you are going to claim that, give us evidence and proof. What is "out of spec" with them???

I have never seen any 1911 that didn't have visible tool marks inside. I have examined Korth's, at shot shows, that have visible machining marks on the OUTSIDE.

I worked for Les for 21 years. Dremel's never touched the area you describe.

That is not what "hard fit " means. It means that everything is held to minimum tolerances , and highly polished, so as to be as tight as possible while still insuring reliable functioning.


Pretty high praise for a gun with the frames out of spec and many unpolished machining marks.

I expected you to come at me hard.

I stand by everything I said.

If you go on the 1911 forums you will find my comments echoed. Especially when others try to add a different mainspring housing or magwell. They will not drop in, where as the following others dropped in in my experience:
Colt
Springfield Armory
Wilson
Dan Wesson
Tisas
Girsan
Ed Brown

So considering the Baer took 2 hours of hand filing and changing the configuration of the magwell for fitment, yeah, I would say the Baer frame is out of spec. And not just mine, but others as well.
To further back that up, just try swapping grips from brand X to a Baer. The fit is not nearly as matched up on the Baer, why(?) , because the frames a bit larger in the grip area. All the other brands swap out with a better fit.

Dremel? Yeah, not the brand name, but air sanders are used. Just watch the Shooting USA video that pimps for Les. It shows the air sanding wheel being used as a Dremel would.

I’m not going to argue semantics on hard fit, you did explain it better than me. But the fact remains the factory does say that their pistols need 500 rounds to break in. Some, if not many owners would normally never put that many rounds the gun, Yet if they want to shoot the pistol at it’s potential then they need to pony up 500 extra rounds.

I know you specialized in checkering. I’m not blowing smoke here, but I can’t recall ever seeing any flaws with checkering. The lines are sraight, the depth is even and the teeth are sharp. Checkering is a big deal to me, no complaints here at all.

I know you are proud of your work and previous employer, I respect that. My intentions were not to trash, but give my experience.

The things I mention are not new to members of 1911 forums. Do a search and as I said, my experiences are repeated.

And to reiterate, Baers will shoot like a house o’ fire.

 

[derek45]

Les has always backed off a bit on the "hard fit " If the customer requested it. We built a couple of guns for Steven Segal many years ago. He specifically asked for "easy to rack " slides.

LOLOL

 

[JTQ]

To further back that up, just try swapping grips from brand X to a Baer. The fit is not nearly as matched up on the Baer, why(?) , because the frames a bit larger in the grip area. All the other brands swap out with a better fit.

The issue is well known enough that there are grip makers that produce "Les Baer" size grip panels.

Les Baer 1911 Grips | High Figure Grips | Handcrafted Grips

Custom Crafted grips for the Les Baer 1911s

www.highfiguregrips.com

 

[Reinz]

The issue is well known enough that there are grip makers that produce "Les Baer" size grip panels.

Les Baer 1911 Grips | High Figure Grips | Handcrafted Grips

Custom Crafted grips for the Les Baer 1911s

www.highfiguregrips.com

‘Thank you, I was racking my brain trying to come up with a company that has specialized Baer grips.

 

[Boom Vang]

Is "Neither" an option?

 

[ericuda]

Is "Neither" an option

Yes sure is, do you have other recommendations.

 

[Navy87Guy]

I had a Baer…it didn’t perform any better than my Dan Wesson Valor or even some of my Springfields. Beyond the issues already mentioned, it was also very finicky with which magazines it would accept. Not worth the hassle (or the price) IMHO.

 

[ericuda]

Wilson seems to be standing out more except for price. Looks like around 4k for a cqb.

 

[tark]

So considering the Baer took 2 hours of hand filing and changing the configuration of the magwell for fitment, yeah, I would say the Baer frame is out of spec. And not just mine, but others as well.
To further back that up, just try swapping grips from brand X to a Baer. The fit is not nearly as matched up on the Baer, why(?) , because the frames a bit larger in the grip area. All the other brands swap out with a better fit.

To be honest... I have heard just about everyone who ever worked on a Baer frame complain that they are out of spec. I think you are right on this. When Bill Wilson told me at a shot show that he won't work on a Bear gun because they were ( wait for it! ) "out of spec." I have to bow to the knowledge of someone who doubtless has forgotten more about 1911s than I will ever know. I just wish someone would tell me exactly what is off. To me, out of spec means that pin holes are in the wrong place and things like that.

But the fact remains the factory does say that their pistols need 500 rounds to break in.

I have had more than a few heated words with Les over this. I think it is not wise to build a pistol so tight that the average person can barely rack the slide and is told he has to shoot hundreds of dollars worth of ammo through the gun to "break it in."

I can’t recall ever seeing any flaws with checkering.

That's cuz I was drunk when I did it... OK just kidding. Believe me, I can find plenty of flaws in my checkering.

The issue is well known enough that there are grip makers that produce "Les Baer" size grip panels.

The front straps on Les' guns are the thickest in the business. They are thick enough that he could remove a bit of frame, from the inside of the front strap and have plenty of room for a Tokarev 7.62X25 magazine. Every other 1911 I have seen could not be made to accept a Tok magazine, without removing too much metal. Try to insert a Tok mag in your 1911 and you will see what I mean. Then, mentally imagine how much metal would have to be removed for the Tok mag to fit. In almost every case... it would be too much. To be honest, Tokarev's are small and rather lightly constructed compared to a 1911. Imagine the performance one could get out of that round, loaded HOT, in a beefy 1911. You could probably push that 85 grain bullet to 2000 FPS.

I tried to talk Les into making a 7.62X25 model. He told me to go to hell...and added a few words I can't post.

 

[TomJ]

Yes sure is, do you have other recommendations.

If you're open to other options I'd take a look at Dan Wesson. I have three, a Vigil chambered in 45 and a 9mm Guardian and Eco. All have been fantastic. They are IMO the best bang for the buck as far as 1911's go.