Deciding on a Concealed Carry Gun

[jamesmhebert]

Hi everyone,

I would like to pick up a 9mm concealed carry firearm. Online research gave me a starting list which I shortened after handling the contenders in-store. But I have never carried before and, lacking that experience, I am wondering about "what I can't know" that could affect my final choice, if I knew.

Are there considerations you know of today – that you didn't know when you first bought a carry gun – that would have affected your choice, if you had known?

I have a shooting session planned to rank my firearm finalists, but there are aspects of carry that a range session does not answer. I'd like to know your comments about my questions, and any questions you'd put to me.

• How much does width affect carry? My finalists vary from .9in to 1.2in wide. Should width affect my evaluation?
  
  
• Is printing illegal itself, just plain bad, or merely undesirable?
  
  
• How much does weight affect carry? My list varies from 17oz to 26oz unloaded. Should weight affect my evaluation?
  
  
• Anything else?

Thank you.

James

P.S. FYI – I've owned firearms for a number of years, but never carried, so while firearms are not new to me, carrying is.

 

[Candyman87]

With a good belt and a good holster, I don't find that a lot of those really matter. That being said, my CCW's are a S&W M&P Shield in 9mm and a Walther PPK in .380.

Width was a concern for me because I'm frankly somewhat skinny. I've got a gut, but unfortunately that doesn't help me hide a bigger framed gun.

That being said, look into a GOOD IWB holster (I've recently fallen in love with my AlienGear Cloak Tuck 3.0 for my Shield) and you'll almost forget you're wearing it.

 

[Spats McGee]

Concur on the belt and holster with Candyman. A good belt and holster make carrying a LOT more comfortable.

IMHO, width is a more important factor in terms of printing than length. However, length may nonetheless be important in terms of comfort. For example, if I carry a full-sized gun, carry in the car gets uncomfortable because the back of the slide gets pushed up into my side. (My Middle-Age Paunch doesn't help.) How much difference will 0.3" make? I'm not sure, but part of the answer will depend on your usual wardrobe. If you routinely wear a jacket, it might not make enough difference to worry about. If you routinely wear T-shirts, that's a different situation.

Whether printing is illegal depends on your state law. I didn't see your state listed, so I can't answer beyond that.

IMHO, weight is very important. As the saying goes, "the .22 that you'll carry beats the .45 at home." If you're carrying something that gets uncomfortable due to the weight, you'll be tempted to leave it at home. That said, a quick Google search tells me that a G19 (which I carry) weighs around 20 ounces empty and 30 ounces loaded. My tolerance for weight will be a little different from yours, but here's my Handy Carry Tip: Carrying a spare mag on the opposite side from your gun helps balance the load, which also makes carrying more comfortable.

 

[bannockburn]

jamesmhebert

I have a CCW rotation that mainly consists of a Kahr CM9, SIG P238, and a S&W Model 638. I prefer smaller, thinner, and lighter weight handguns that are suited to IWB carry (along with the occasional pocket carry of a KelTec P3AT). Polymer and aluminum frame guns are great for reducing weight but you don't want to go too lightweight if the recoil is punishing and uncomfortable for you when you are shooting it. A decent holster design and an equally well made belt will go a long way in keeping your CCW concealed.

 

[danez71]

Weight and thickness do make a difference. How much difference is more of a individual thing and holsters can make it difference.



A couple things that come to mind that I found out after I started carrying (where I could):

The length of the grip made more of a difference printing than I thought it would. With my M&Pc, the mag with the pinky extension adds about 1/2" or so and does print more easily depending on how I'm dressed.


Holsters - Don't believe everything you read. Its still a individual preference. Buying a 'really good holster and belt' isn't automatically the right answer for everyone in every circumstance. I use my el-cheapo Uncle Mike IWB holster appendix carry most (or in the 3:15 position). If I'm being active, hiking for ex., a better, sturdier (also larger) holster is my preference with a shirt that compensates for the extra bulk of the holster.


Good questions.


ETA: A decent leather belt, IMO, is needed regardless of the holster type. IT doesn't have to be an official gun belt... just decently stiff (think thickness and width).

 

[Scarpia]

James...It has been my experience that is not one gun that suits all CCW scenarios. I'm up to my 12th "perfect carry" gun. Good luck!

 

[jamesmhebert]

My initial impression is that I should "start lighter/smaller and see how it goes." The firearms toward the heavier/larger end of my list would still be fun to own and shoot, but if I end up not carrying them due to size and heft then the purpose has been lost.

I appreciate your assessments. Looks like holster evaluation is pretty important, too.



Candyman87

That's great to know. Thank you. I am heavier set, 5'7" at 265, and have this idea that anything I carry will stick out. Probably due to the fact I've not carried before and think it "will be obvious."

Spats McGee

Doh! I'll correct that. I'm in Kansas. Do you know how printing is referred to in state laws (wondering what language to search for). I am leaning toward a Nano or Shield for the weight/size consideration. I find the capacity and grip of both the G26 and XD Mod2 are a definite draw... but their weight may be a drawback for me.

bannockburn

Considering carrying for the first time, the idea of a carry rotation is a surprise! But I can see the value... different seasons, different clothes, different carry needs.

 

[Plan2Live]

Carrying a concealed weapon, any concealed weapon, is a big sticky ball of compromise. You'll have to figure out which compromises you are willing to accept.

Doing it beats talking about it. Weigh your choices, pick one, start carrying and stick with it for a while. You probably won't nail it on the first try.

As for printing, how many folks have you spotted printing out in public? Probably not many. No one is looking and those that are looking are probably carrying too.

When I first started carrying and was overly self conscious and worried about printing my then 12 year old son gave me the best advice anyone ever gave me regarding carrying and/or printing. He said "dad, look at your permit. Does it say concealed weapon permit on or invisible weapon permit?"

 

[Sistema1927]

I have found that the gun that I carry most is my Kahr PM9 w/CT in a Desantis pocket holster. No fuss or bother, works with most of the clothes I wear.

A couple of observations:

1) ALWAYS use a pocket holster that covers the trigger.
2) NEVER put anything else in that pocket.
3) Make sure to CLEAN a pocket carried weapon at least once per week to remove pocket lint and other gunk/detritus that tends to build up.
4) Carry a 2nd MAGAZINE. I carry a spare 7 rounder in a small leather sheath that originally came with a $4 sharpening stone. This way I have 6+1 in the pistol and a quick reload of 7 more.
5) SHOOT this pistol as often as possible and reload with fresh ammo.

 

[Candyman87]

My initial impression is that I should "start lighter/smaller and see how it goes." The firearms toward the heavier/larger end of my list would still be fun to own and shoot, but if I end up not carrying them due to size and heft then the purpose has been lost.

I appreciate your assessments. Looks like holster evaluation is pretty important, too.



Candyman87

That's great to know. Thank you. I am heavier set, 5'7" at 265, and have this idea that anything I carry will stick out. Probably due to the fact I've not carried before and think it "will be obvious."

I'm 5'8" and 185 to 190. My Shield and PPK get lost carrying at 5:00 in a baggy t-shirt and the only one that knows I'm carrying at any given time is my girlfriend because she'll ask.

When I first got the new AlienGear holsters, I wore it for two days around her (got dressed while she was making breakfast) and she never noticed until she hugged me and asked how long I was carrying that for. I told her two days.

I also have an IWB holster for my 1911, but that's mostly for fun. I could probably get away with it if I'm wearing a heavy coat, but even then I'd opt for OWB. Same with my PPQ.


Oh and another word of advice? Shoot often, especially with the carry models or sub-compacts. My grip that works on nearly every gun prevents the slide stop from engaging on my Shield. I've had to modify my grip to prevent this.

 

[Telekinesis]

In general, a good holster and good belt (designed to be a gun belt) will make carrying much more comfortable and help conceal the gun. Don't skimp in this area. I'd probably budget $40-60 for the holster and $60-100 for the belt. It is well worth the added cost as with a good combination, you can actually forget that you're carrying even a heavy gun.

On holster selection, make sure that your holster is rigid enough to stay open without the gun in it. This will allow you to reholster the gun without using both hands and doing a dance to keep from flagging your other hand.

To define what matters in the gun, you'll need to decide where you want to carry. For example, if I'm just out around town I don't really care if I print a little bit because most people won't notice or care, so I carry a larger gun like a Glock 19 or Sig 228. If I'm in a non permissive environment, I might choose either a different (more discrete) method of carry for that larger gun, or move to a smaller gun like a j frame or shield.

It depends on where you are, but printing is usually not illegal. It can however be very detrimental. For example of your workplace prohibits carry (but it's not illegal) and you print enough that someone takes note that you're carrying a gun, you might be out of a job. I usually try my best to keep printing to a minimum.

In general, thinner guns are easier to conceal than wider guns. Good job looking at the actual widths and not just "single stack vs double stack" - there are a number of single stack guns out there that are just as wide as double stacks. Smaller guns are usually easier to carry but harder to shoot. If you go with something in the sub compact range, practice with it a lot.

Also carry a spare mag or two. Nothing would be scarier than either a) running out of ammunition, or b) finishing the fight but standing there with a now empty gun. Also, some malfunction drills require replacing the mag with a new one.

As the saying goes, "the .22 that you'll carry beats the .45 at home."

As a counter point,when you're choosing a gun to carry, answer this question: "if someone tried to kill me today, is this the gun I want to use to defend my life?".
If you're able to carry a better tool, do it.

Finally and most importantly, get good training. Lots of people think that just having a gun will keep them safe. Others think that just standing in a pistol bay shooting at a bullseye target 25 yards away is all they need and that they are adaquately prepared. Make sure you learn things like how to draw from concealment and how to shoot from retention. Make sure that you also know how to shoot while moving and while in awkward positions (ever shot a gun while laying on your back?)

Good luck with the decision! If you're like most of us, you'll get a good gun but will keep trying to find that compromise to get the perfect gun for all types of carry. I'm not sure it exists, but it's certainly fun trying to find it!

 

[CaptTripps]

Ditto on the good belt and the right holster. Slim guns hide easier and rounded guns print less also. Example, the straight mainspring housing on most 1911s. A sharp angle like that is harder to disguise and quicker to be noticed.I carry a CW45 every day, 3:30-4:30. Its thin, has soft edges, and fits my needs. Holds 6+1 and can use properly modified Officer size mags.

 

[BSA1]

jamesmhebert,

Don't worry about printing in Kansas.

Conceal carry is legal without a permit.

Or just avoid the printing issue altogether and Open Carry which is also legal without a permit.

And yes. I am one of those people that Open Carry regularly. It's 94 degrees outside at the time of this post and I am not putting on heavier clothes to cover my gun.

 

[JohnBiltz]

I'm of the opinion that I carry a gun so if I have to fight I can, so I want all the gun I can carry. My personal choice is a Glock 26. For myself being thick is not as big a deal as grip length. Other people have trouble with the thickness of a Glock or other double stack but I don't see it myself. So for me a Glock 26 is easier to carry than a single stack Shield which has a longer grip. And I am reluctant to give up 4 rounds with a Glock 43. Weight does matter quite a bit and the belt matters more than the holster. A good holster can not make a bad belt work.

 

[Spats McGee]

Here's a good start on Kansas law: http://handgunlaw.us/states/kansas.pdf

 

[Vern Humphrey]

How much does width affect carry? My finalists vary from .9in to 1.2in wide. Should width affect my evaluation?

Width affects carry -- for example, a revolver in an IWB will not be as comfortable or concealable as a flat automatic. The M1911 is a good example of a FLAT and easily concealable pistol.

The butt of the pistol affects concealability more than anything else -- that's what prints, if anything.

Is printing illegal itself, just plain bad, or merely undesirable?

Check your state laws. In most states all that is required is that the gun not be visible to common observation -- which means simply that you TRIED to conceal it.

How much does weight affect carry? My list varies from 17oz to 26oz unloaded. Should weight affect my evaluation?

Those weights are well within the comfortable zone. One key to dealing with a heavy pistol is a good belt. You can find them on the internet. The Duluth Trading Company "lifetime belt" is a good choice.

Anything else?

I would choose a gun based on these four factors:

• Reliability. It's got to go BANG! every time you pull the trigger. If it doesn't, it's just a funny looking club.
  
• Shootability. That's how well YOU can shoot the gun. In other words, given that the gun went BANG! did you get a hit?
  
• Power. Given that the gun went BANG! and you got a hit, will that do the job?
  
• Concealability. I put this last because it's folly to compromise the other three just to get more concealability.

Finally, I would look at gun, holster, belt and magazine carrier as a SYSTEM. It doesn't matter if your gun is concealable if the belt sage, holster allows excess printing and you have difficulty accessing magazines for a reload.

 

[eddd7]

Hi everyone,

I would like to pick up a 9mm concealed carry firearm. Online research gave me a starting list which I shortened after handling the contenders in-store. But I have never carried before and, lacking that experience, I am wondering about "what I can't know" that could affect my final choice, if I knew.

Are there considerations you know of today – that you didn't know when you first bought a carry gun – that would have affected your choice, if you had known?

I have a shooting session planned to rank my firearm finalists, but there are aspects of carry that a range session does not answer. I'd like to know your comments about my questions, and any questions you'd put to me.

• How much does width affect carry? My finalists vary from .9in to 1.2in wide. Should width affect my evaluation?
  
  
• Is printing illegal itself, just plain bad, or merely undesirable?
  
  
• How much does weight affect carry? My list varies from 17oz to 26oz unloaded. Should weight affect my evaluation?
  
  
• Anything else?

Thank you.

James

P.S. FYI – I've owned firearms for a number of years, but never carried, so while firearms are not new to me, carrying is.

There are so many good answers in this thread....so many good suggestions and points. I'll just repeat what someone else said; that a gun you won't hesitate to carry beats a bazooka you left at home because of size or comfort.

As for printing - one gives up a big advantage, IMHO, if others (read: bad guys) know you're carrying. We've read several times now where a bad guy with gun-in-hand, gets the drop on an (holstered, of course) open carrier and politely says -"I'll take that".

I carry a slightly modified Ruger LCP in a slightly modified Sticky holster, as I can front pocket carry with my usual cargo shorts, or use the Sticky IWB at any, and all positions, remove it for driving as there's no comfortable IWB positions for my build while driving....period.

In non-summer (Maine) I add a back-up, a slightly modified Ruger LCP in a slightly modified USgungear (.com) ankle rig that's forgettably comfortable.

If the country's morality continues to circle the drain at an increasing rate, carry options will certainly change to those bazooka types I mentioned.

 

[Teachu2]

Depending on weather and attire, I carry a Shield, a G26, a G30, a G36, or a 1911. As others have stated, a good gunbelt makes a huge difference.

My wife recently started carrying, and now shops differently for our casual clothes....

 

[1911 guy]

First, be willing to dress around the gun, to a point.

Second, buy a good gunbelt. Specifically a gunbelt. My favorite is the Wilderness Products 5-stitch "Instructor Belt". Less than 50 bucks and nearly indestructible. There are other good choices, though.

Third, buy a decent holster. Holsters are important, but belts are more so.

Now to guns. Only you know your individual requirements and compromises. Take these into account when choosing a handgun and follow these general rules:

Carry the largest size handgun you can conceal.
Carry the largest caliber you can comfortably manage.
Mouse guns are harder to shoot well, but hand cannons sometimes get left at home due to inconvenience. Find the compromise you can live with.

 

[BSA1]

We've read several times now where a bad guy with gun-in-hand, gets the drop on an (holstered, of course) open carrier and politely says -"I'll take that".

Please post links or the sources to support that statement.

 

[Spats McGee]

We've read several times now where a bad guy with gun-in-hand, gets the drop on an (holstered, of course) open carrier and politely says -"I'll take that".

Please post links or the sources to support that statement.

How about:
http://bearingarms.com/ill-taking-open-carrier-robbed-gunthe-first-time-carries-gunpoint/
http://bearingarms.com/open-carrier-robbed-gun-greensboro/
http://www.usacarry.com/forums/open-carry-discussion/5972-man-open-carrying-robbed-his-gun.html

I didn't bother to post links leading to duplicate coverage of the same event. I'm also not saying that open carriers are frequently robbed, but it does happen.

 

[C0untZer0]

Here is a great thread started by Nom de Forum titled "Pistol weight in ounces: When does it get heavy?"

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=749907&highlight=change

Its good reading.

 

[C0untZer0]

And here is my belt story.

I bought a $32.00 belt at Kohls, it was a pretty thick belt, it looked like it would do the job. I thought "could there be that big of a difference between a 30 dollar belt and one of those expensive 100 dollar 'gun belts'?" And too - it wasn't like I was going to be carrying a Desert Eagle around...

Well I had it one week before the buckle broke - looking at the break, it looked like ZAMAK to me.

So I got a refund on the thing and put it toward a purchase of a real gun belt...

Lesson learned.

 

[Sam1911]

But I have never carried before and, lacking that experience, I am wondering about "what I can't know" that could affect my final choice, if I knew.

I understand your concerns, but relax. Most of the grand debates you read are tempests-in-teacups, so to speak. When you make your choices, they'll be good ones.

Are there considerations you know of today – that you didn't know when you first bought a carry gun – that would have affected your choice, if you had known?

Hmmm... maybe. Mostly just the sheer incredible importance of training and practice with the gear you will carry. It is SO much more important than just about any other issue, it is impossible to overstate. And how those hours and days of practice time will educate you and bring you to make sound modifications until your carry gear is just right for you.

I have a shooting session planned to rank my firearm finalists

"A" shooting session is fine, but it really won't tell you much beyond a very general idea of what you DON'T like in a particular gun. It is a starting point, and a very basic one at that. Just somewhere to stand as you start off on your journey.

How much does width affect carry? My finalists vary from .9in to 1.2in wide. Should width affect my evaluation?

Really very, VERY little. The width argument tries to boil down tons of tiny variables into a simple, easy to digest number, and that number isn't terribly meaningful. Think about it this way: You, yourself, are probably about 18" wide. Your gun is around 1" wide. You're asking how much difference a fluctuation of about 1.5% of the total width will make.

1.5% sure isn't much. And the answer is, predictably, "not much."

Is printing illegal itself, just plain bad, or merely undesirable?

That could depend on your state laws as one or two notable places have interpretations of their concealed carry law that seem to make printing -- DELIBERATE printing -- against the law. In most places it is no issue.

A great many states allow open carry of firearms, so "printing," if even noticed, breaks no law.

And in practice, printing is simply not an issue. Folks are so used to every person they meet having cell phones, key chains, biker wallets, pagers, day planners, and who knows what all attached to their belts and bulging under their shirt or jacket that it is practically invisible to all but other gunny folks who make sport of actively trying to spot other gun carriers.

So the short answer is, "nobody notices and it isn't illegal anyway."

How much does weight affect carry? My list varies from 17oz to 26oz unloaded. Should weight affect my evaluation?

Weight, itself, isn't an issue as long as you have a GOOD BELT and a GOOD HOLSTER. A crappy men's department belt will make even a lightweight gun a total pain. And a bad holster is almost as bad. Get GOOD carry gear and you can largely ignore the weight issue.

 

[Spats McGee]

Maybe it's just me, but I think I'm beginning to see a pattern on a couple of issues:

. . . .a good belt and a good holster . . . .

. . . .belt and holster. . . .

. . . . decent holster design and an equally well made belt. . . .

. . . .Holsters . . . .decent leather belt . . . .

. . . . good holster and good belt. . . .

. . . .good belt and the right holster.

. . . .gun, holster, belt and magazine carrier . . . .

. . . . a good gunbelt . . . .

. . . . a good gunbelt. . . . decent holster. . . .

. . . .GOOD BELT and a GOOD HOLSTER . . . .

Did we mention that we think you should get a good belt and a good holster?