DEcustomizing a 1911?

[ABTOMAT]

By this time tomorrow I'll be the proud owner of a Norinco "Model of the 1911A1," as long as it's not one of the guns with barrel lug peening. They seem like interesting pieces and they're rare in my state for legal reasons. Never owned a 1911 before.

The catch is it was given a very '90s set of upgrades to make it a target gun. Huge adjustable Bo-Mar sights, adjustable trigger, full-length guide rod, target grips, etc. That's not really my style so I'm planning on returning it to a lower-key config.

Anything I should keep in mind when decustomizing/downgrading a 1911? I imagine getting people's takeoffs should take care of the parts situation. Thankfully the rear sight was installed on top of the slide and not milled into it.

Another option would be to get the rear sight milled into the receiver like it's supposed to, but I'm not really planning on making a bullseye gun out of this.

 

[imashooter]

Besides the federal ban on importing them, what state laws make them rare in your state? Congrats btw. I believe the basic Colt narrow tenon front sight and fixed rear will fit nicely. Probably find them about anywhere. Got a pic or two? I have several 1911s and my Norinco is my favorite. I've done a couple of internal modifications to it and it's super accurate and a great shooter.

 

[ABTOMAT]

States like MA and CA don't allow dealers to transfer handguns that aren't on the state approved lists. Stuff like this is rare or have to be imported through "open-minded" FFLs.

I love the reputation they have for nearly unmachinable tool steel frames and slides. I gotta admit I'm nervous about the barrel lug thing since I've seen so many threads about the defects. Long drive to look at it tomorrow.

Here's the photo I have. Sights are a bit gnarly for my tastes.

 

[bannockburn]

ABTOMAT

Well the grips, full length guide rod, and trigger are all easy fixes. The only problem might be with any modifications that may have been done to get the front and rear sights into place, such as opening up the rear dovetail slot to get the Bo-Mar to fit.

 

[imashooter]

Hang on to those sights. There's usually Colt folks looking for one of those "shark fin" front sights. You got it done yet?

 

[ABTOMAT]

Got the gun today. Barrel lugs weren't 100% clean but they're a lot better than a lot of Norinco photos I've seen. Original cheese barrel. It looks great and doesn't seem to have been shot much. I paid $425, came with a numbers-matching mag and the guy tossed in a few rounds of range ammo. Serial 422xxx.

Mods I'm aware of:
-Bo-Mar sights are soldered on
-Has a 2-piece full-length Dwyer "Group Gripper" guide rod thingy
-TIGHT NM marked barrel bushing
-Houge monogrips
-Aluminum trigger which isn't adjusted correctly

The only real problem is that I think someone gave it a "trigger job" and the interaction between the safety, sear, and hammer is touchy. I guess the original owner in the '90s was going for a bullseye pistol thing.

 

[imashooter]

I installed the G.I. size Group Gripper which really gave me consistent groups though accuracy needed improving. I then installed an angled barrel bushing from EGW which gave it great accuracy. Along with springs changes, I fit an oversized EGW firing pin stop. Previously, the extractor had noticeable clocking (loose fps) though it caused no issues other than sporadic tossing of empty cases. Now my cases are very consistent to about the 4:00-4:30 position, maybe around 6 ft. out. Hope you enjoy the Norinco.

 

[ABTOMAT]

I'm gonna have a local smith look at the sear/safety engagement and see what he says. Something's been taken too far down.

Now that I've had it for a while the target sights are growing on me. First handgun I've owned with more than low-profile service sights. Heck, one of my guns doesn't even have sights.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Bo-Mar sights are soldered on

Does the rear sight actually say Bo-Mar on them?

I've seen a lot of Bo-Mar sights and they've never looked like those on your gun...they look more like an Ellison

Houge monogrips

Not to get too nit picky, more for the sake of clarity.

The name of the company is Hogue; Monogrips are usually made for revolvers...because they don't utilize grip screws though the sides of the grip

 

[imashooter]

I've seen a lot of Bo-Mar sights and they've never looked like those on your gun...they look more like an Ellison

Same here. I just figure he was using the name generically. Probably someone's matching set from a while back.

 

[ABTOMAT]

My mistake on the grip terminology.

The rear sight indeed says "BO-MAR." Dunno how old but I'd guess mid '90s. I'm used to seeing them milled into the top of the slide but this one is just installed on top of it.

I'm definitely going to have to take this to a 'smith. There's a combination of issues with the safety and sear engagement. Not gonna be quite the deal I thought.

 

[9mmepiphany]

The rear sight indeed says "BO-MAR." Dunno how old but I'd guess mid '90s.

When you get a chance, can we see more pictures of the rear sight assembly and the markings

If yours predates the more common rear blade placement, I'd guess it is pre-60s

 

[imashooter]

Never seen one with that shape/style of overhang. Maybe worth more than the pistol. A chopped version of this? http://www.bullseyeforum.net/viewim...et.com/albums/z110/agb1368/Bullseye/002-4.jpg

 

[rcmodel]

It's either a Bomar with the blade broke off and replaced with a completely different blade type?

Or, a Bomar base someone cleverly put a S&W elevation slide in???

Bomar never made anything like that as far back at the late 1960's to my knowledge.

rc

 

[ABTOMAT]

I'll get some pics. It's more beat up than the gun so it could be very old, but it doesn't look hacked. Is there something rare and valuable about old Bo-Mar sights?

A chopped version of this? http://www.bullseyeforum.net/viewima...ye/002-4.jpg

The screw design and marking style are identical to that. Only mine has a body that's twice as tall and the blade is obviously different.

 

[ABTOMAT]

Here, this BHP's rear sight windage assy is identical to mine. Any ideas?

http://www.gunauction.com/buy/7085702

 

[imashooter]

Pretty cool. I wonder if they were originally part of that full length rail? I hope you have something there (of high value).

 

[ABTOMAT]

I think my sight is factory as it sits. I've found a few photos of similar ones. I also looked in my 1965 Gun Digest and the Bo-Mar shown there is of the newer type, so God knows how old mine is.

Anyway, here're photos of my gun. I'm gonna keep it in bullseye config, assuming I can get the action fixed without exceeding the value of the thing.

 

[rcmodel]

All I know it that Bomar sight has to be way older then the oldest Norinco 1911 made.

I'd guess some old pistol smith cleaned out his Junque drawer when he built it on the cheap in the 1980's or 90's??

But, if it shoots good, I wouldn't change it either.

rc

 

[ABTOMAT]

I have a Gun Digest from 1965 that shows a 1911 with the newer style of Bomar sight. These parts must be ancient.

 

[imashooter]

Reviewing my Bill Jenkins book U.S. Military Match and Marksmanship Automatic Pistols it appears that sight dates back to at least the early 60s. So many folks, military marksmanship teams (all branches), etc doing every acceptable mod known to mankind that it's hard to get a handle on this. Regardless, pretty cool imo.

 

[joem1945]

Before you tear it apart, go shooting with it and see how you like it.

 

[mgmorden]

It's your gun to certainly do as you wish, but aside from fixing the hammer/sear engagement issue the only thing I'd personally do is swap out the grips (I had a set of those same grips on a previous gun - I hated the feel of them).

GI 1911 sights are absolutely horrendous so I wouldn't ever intentionally put them back on a gun .

 

[ABTOMAT]

Yeah, I've realized I don't have another target pistol so the retro sights are a keeper. Its funkiness has grown on me. Oddly enough a guy offered to send me the stock grips he took of his Nork.

There are a couple real hotshot custom 1911 builders in my area so I'm gonna talk to them about the sear and barrel issues.

 

[ABTOMAT]

This gun's looking more and more like someone's cast-off project. The left side of the slide is bowed outwards near the lock notch. How does that even happen?