T.R.
Member
I toppled two does with my .357 MAG revolver at close range. Broadside chest shots at approx 15 yards. These animals never knew what hit them.
TR
TR
Deer Hunting, what is your minimum cartridge?
- Thread starter mcb
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Loyalist Dave
Member
I'm actually amazed it is legal here in Maryland for deer...even in a ML handgun. It's not legal for hunting in one state, (is it Louisiana?) due to the wording of the laws....I'm told they require under .40 caliber for small game, and .44 or larger for large game when using muzzleloaders...., OOPS.
LD
FL-NC
Member
A taxidermist friend of mine regularly head-shoots them with a 22 magnum at close range in thick cover. This is legal in NC. He has never lost one.
Cocked & Locked
Member
yet
Bell used to shoot elephants through the brain a .275 Rigby. I have no doubt a .22 magnum could take a deer.
He also waited for fish to jump then shot them out of the air for practice. I figure if you can shoot a fish out of the air reliably then a shot on a deers head probably isn't out of the question.
For normal people it's probably best to stick to a round that can drop the deer traditionally.
He also waited for fish to jump then shot them out of the air for practice. I figure if you can shoot a fish out of the air reliably then a shot on a deers head probably isn't out of the question.
For normal people it's probably best to stick to a round that can drop the deer traditionally.
JeffG
Member
I have taken deer with.223 and 22/250; with substantial bullets, and perfect unobstructed shot placement. Looking back I am not sure that was good thinking, but I did not lose any deer. Today, nothing less than a .243.
RedlegRick
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I once took a mule deer doe with a .30 Carbine. 110 grain Remington JHPs at about sixty feet. Clean chest shot, she went down fast. I consider myself lucky there. I didn't have a proper deer rifle at the time.
darkcloud
Member
.243 Win minimum. Prefer my .257 Roberts. Ideally would be 7mm-08. All bolt actions with 20" medium weight barrels. Top it with a 1.5-5 scope
Whatever I can use that will get me an impact velocity that will get expansion from a game bullet at the farthest distance i might have to shoot. So in general 500 yds or less, the .243 is plenty sufficient (especially since I know I can get closer )
)
MidRoad
Member
For rifles I'd say .223 with a good bullet would be the minimum I'd use in deer. But I have a 30-30 and recently aquired a nice tiny little 308 which is actually shorter than my cz 527 carbine.so I'd rather just take the .308 and have more than enough gun.
As for handguns I have yet to take a deer with one. But the minimum I'm going to try is 45 acp. Using some Underwood 255gr hardcast rnfp going 925 fps should do well on deer aslong as shot placement is good and range is reasonable. That's just about the same as skeeters load for the 44 special and that's had alot of success.
I don't really beleive in using energy figures . It's a good way to compare rounds I guess but that's all imo. I feel it's out dated,especially with modern bullets. You can have two bullets the same speed and weight but completely different construction and will get completely different results on game. Such as a nosler partition vs one of them rapid expanding ballistic tip rounds.
But to each his own.
As for handguns I have yet to take a deer with one. But the minimum I'm going to try is 45 acp. Using some Underwood 255gr hardcast rnfp going 925 fps should do well on deer aslong as shot placement is good and range is reasonable. That's just about the same as skeeters load for the 44 special and that's had alot of success.
I don't really beleive in using energy figures . It's a good way to compare rounds I guess but that's all imo. I feel it's out dated,especially with modern bullets. You can have two bullets the same speed and weight but completely different construction and will get completely different results on game. Such as a nosler partition vs one of them rapid expanding ballistic tip rounds.
But to each his own.
Loyalist Dave
Member
Unfortunately, there are too many of us out to try to harvest game that don't look hard at the projectile and what it's going to do on impact...., and thus weight and muzzle velocity are all they know. Some know a little bit more, such as "use a hollow point as an FMJ isn't legal", but other than that....
??? So I've had conversations with fellows who know that, "....anything less than a .338 [Winchester] magnum just doesn't knock down the deer." Then there's "If it don't say "Magnum" it won't do ****"... OR one of the most common, "The .30-30 is an antique, and doesn't do well on deer, so's you have to do a lot of tracking. It was thought to be good when it was first made 'cause that's all they had." Translation: "I'm a poor shot/take bad shots, or my barrel's inaccurate, or I'm too cheap and lazy to find an accurate round for my rifle with a good bullet and then practice, so that I'd have shot placement that would be very good and the bullet could do its job [or all of the above] "
LD
FL-NC
Member
I have no problem using the 223. In my personal experience, it has performed exceptionally. There are many who cite various reasons, either scientific or anecdotal, that this is not enough gun. Many people just repeat what they have heard. This doesn't make it true, no matter how many times it has been repeated.This doesn't square with my experiences or my freezer full of venison. Others will cite the fact that I haven't shot the "big deer" encountered in places like places Michigan, Wisconsin, or wherever. I remain dubious on this. The reason is that those deer, while larger than our Southern white tails, still have the same parts in the same locations. A northern monster that outweighs one of our Southern dwarfs by 50 pounds or more doesn't have an additional 50 pounds of matter over the vitals- it will be generally evenly distributed over a larger body. I do firmly believe that shot placement is king. How many of us have seen deer lost, or recovered by sheer luck due to a poorly placed shot from a "good" round?
MidRoad
Member
Unfortunately, there are too many of us out to try to harvest game that don't look hard at the projectile and what it's going to do on impact...., and thus weight and muzzle velocity are all they know. Some know a little bit more, such as "use a hollow point as an FMJ isn't legal", but other than that....
Translation: "I'm a poor shot/take bad shots, or my barrel's inaccurate, or I'm too cheap and lazy to find an accurate round for my rifle with a good bullet and then practice, so that I'd have shot placement that would be very good and the bullet could do its job [or all of the above] "
LD
All you can do is try to educate folks like that. But usually it falls an deaf ears and they then think you're a know it all. But hey their shoulder not mine . It would be nice to show them the results of a 150 great flat point out of a 30-30. Low recoil,classic cartridge, and works impressively well for an antique
marksman13
Member
223/5.56 is my minimum. I've killed several deer and fairly large hogs with a 5.56 running a Federal GMM 69 grain bullet. None of the deer have ever taken a step. Some pigs have run off to die in the swamp, but most never leave the bean fields. I prefer my 6.8 SPC or 308, but I'll never doubt the 5.56's ability to cleanly and reliably kill deer and pigs. I've seen too much evidence to the contrary.
marksman13
Member
I can assure you, those northern deer don't get any bigger or tougher than our southern hogs. The 5.56 is plenty of cartridge for deer if the bullet is put where it is supposed to be.
MCgunner
Member
It confuses me that some folks put down the Nosler ballistic tip. I shoot a 150 BT in my .308 and have found it has exceptional penetration. I used to have Barnes 140s loaded for pig hunts, but after shooting deer AND hogs with the BT with great success, I just stick with it. Maybe they've changed the BT? Maybe it's a better bullet than when it first came out? I don't know, but I'm not changing as it works for me.
DM~
Member
That's why, as YOU put it, "Some pigs have run off to die in the swamp"...
Because it's enough gun??
DM
marksman13
Member
Yep. It's plenty of gun. I didn't say how far they ran into the swamp before they died. Maybe they went fifty yards deep and died. Quite frankly, I don't care how far they go before they expire. If they don't die in the bean field, I'm not going to look for them. They keep the buzzards and coyotes fed.
I've shot pigs with everything from a 5.56 to a 50 BMG. I've seen pigs run away after taking solid hits from every round I have ever used. Most don't make it far. Some do. They are tough animals with a strong fight or flight instinct. You really want to argue that a 300 BLK, 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendel, 6.5 Creedmoor, 308, 30-06, 458 SOCOM or a 50 BMG aren't "enough gun" for a pig, then be my guest. I've personally seen very little difference in how a big pig reacts to a well placed shot no matter what cartridge is being used. 5.56 is plenty of bullet for pigs and deer, and there isn't a cartridge on earth that can be fired from standard small arms that I would guarantee to put a 200 lb pig down, DRT.
The very first btips were meant to be varmint bullets, then folks figgered they'd kill everything, when everything didn't die, they whined, Nosler made a hunting btip, and now here we are. I'll add that heavy for caliber (s.d.) btips will OBVIOUSLY fare better for game at close ranges, as a 125 with an impact velocity > 2800fps will never penetrate as well as a 150 <2900 fps. In my .243 I've sploded 90s on targets at 50 yds that made it VERY obvious that the design matches the warning on the box of factory ammo at cabelas that it is intended for 100 yds or more. The sst and vmax aren't terribly dissimilar, but the taper helps the sst hold together an extra couple inches. Bullet construction has greatly changed definitions of minimum cartridges, I'd be okay with a 53 Barnes .223, but not as far out as I'd go with the hotter rounds, on the same note, I'd trust it more than a btip with a > 2900 impact velocity.It confuses me that some folks put down the Nosler ballistic tip. I shoot a 150 BT in my .308 and have found it has exceptional penetration. I used to have Barnes 140s loaded for pig hunts, but after shooting deer AND hogs with the BT with great success, I just stick with it. Maybe they've changed the BT? Maybe it's a better bullet than when it first came out? I don't know, but I'm not changing as it works for me.
DM~
Member
So, the truth is, you really don't care, you don't go look so you really don't know for sure...
Personally, I care enough to go find out, so I can make a better educated decision than that... Then again, I don't shoot anything to keep the coyotes and buzzards fed...
DM
I Hunt with .308, 7x57R & 8x57JRS I use premium bullets in all my hunting weapons. I work on a simple principal and that is to be suitably armed for the biggest moose, boar or deer that is going to cross my path. I shoot 165 grn Norma Oryx in my .308 and I've shot 15kg Muntjac up to large moose with that bullet. Whats the cost of a premium bullet compared to a moose carcass?
.308 Norma
Member
I'm kinda getting off track here, but you're one lucky dude Skoghund. Here in Idaho, if we got caught with a moose carcass (other than the once-in-a-lifetime moose carcass we drew a tag for) the "cost of a premium bullet" we killed the moose with would be nothing compared to the thousands of dollars in fines and the loss of our hunting privileges for 4 or 5 years.
But getting right back on track - if and when I ever draw a once-in-a-lifetime Idaho moose tag, you can bet your bottom dollar (or whatever currency you use in Sweden) I won't be using an underpowered rifle, and I will be using a premium bullet.
I'm kinda getting off track here, but you're one lucky dude Skoghund. Here in Idaho, if we got caught with a moose carcass (other than the once-in-a-lifetime moose carcass we drew a tag for) the "cost of a premium bullet" we killed the moose with would be nothing compared to the thousands of dollars in fines and the loss of our hunting privileges for 4 or 5 years.
But getting right back on track - if and when I ever draw a once-in-a-lifetime Idaho moose tag, you can bet your bottom dollar (or whatever currency you use in Sweden) I won't be using an underpowered rifle, and I will be using a premium bullet.
We have a minimum caliber for big, hoofed game ( big hoofed game is any thing larger than a roe deer) and that is 6.5x55 that just happens to be the old Swedish, Norwegian army round. There are still plenty of moose shot here with that caliber. we've never been so lucky with the range of quality hunting bullets available today.
Just for the interest club, Sweden has the tightest moose population in the world. We shoot over 90000 moose every years. I put my ground in with my neighbors ground and we get one adult and two calves to shoot every year. My portion of the meat keeps me going all year. We always shoot one moose on our first hunting day.
Tomorrow night I'm going to sit out for a boar with my double rifle loaded with Lapua naturalis mono copper bullets. The cost of those bullets is really eye watering.
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