Defective FC 9mm brass

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rcmodel

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Had 250 once-fired Federal brass around for a while so I don't really know when it was made. But I do have under-shorts that are at least as old!

Decided to load 50 test rounds of a new batch of Berry 115 RNDS the other day.
Lost about 8-10 during sizing & expanding.
Then another 8-10 during bullet seating.
Then 12 more when I shot it.

That right there just ain't right!!! :what:

Load was a fairly light 5.5 grains Unique seated 1.143" COL.
Shot in a SIG P6 that eats everything else perfectly.

Guess the rest of it will go in the scrap brass bucket where it belongs!

Split9mmCases.jpg

rc
 
Weird?! Had it been someone else I might have thought you were loading hot or maybe using brass used in some hotloads.
 
Nope!

Once fired factory load brass I had been saving for a special occasion!

Guess this was it!

rc
 
Dang, rcmodel ... Yikes! :eek:


I normally load my 9mm reloads to high-near max load data with Bullseye/W231/HP38 and never get case splits/failures like that.

They were once fired factory brass???

I toss range 9mm brass (including FC) from the tumbler to 5 gallon buckets and they stay like that for years in the garage until I pull some out to reload.

How were they stored?
 
hawkeye, I think rcmodel's OP points to the source of the problem:

Lost about 8-10 during sizing & expanding.
Then another 8-10 during bullet seating.
Then 12 more when I shot it.

For some reason, looks like the brass got hard and brittle.
 
I've got 4 loads through mine with no problems at all. All I use is HP-38 in mine but haven't lost one to sizing or any other problems.
 
I have reloaded a batch of 9mm over 50-100 times with no case failure. They were loaded with W231/HP38 using high load data and shot in Lone Wolf barrels. I keep them in a separate container and toss them/recycle when the primer pockets get loose.

I think if you keep your pressure below max load data (mid-high range) and use tight chambered barrels, you should get decent number of loadings out of them. YMMV
 
My skin looks like that in dry weather........

Seriously, it's probably just a batch of bad brass. It happens. I've seen rifle brass do the same thing.

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
That's scary stuff!

Have you had past experience with your "once-fired brass" source? I'm wondering, once-fired out of what?
 
Defective brass?

Sure looks like it. I've seen it happen with other manufacturers. Saw some new Winchester 6.5 X 55 that was so brittle it would not seal the rifle chamber...had gas escaping from the back of the chamber. Accuracy was non-existent. More recently had a batch of Frontier (Hornady) .30-06 brass that was extremely brittle. My first clue should have been when I tore the rim off the first case I tried to get out of the resizing die. This resulted in the destruction of the first reloading die I ever bought (I was 17 years old). I'm 59 today. I thought that I must not have gotten enough lube on the case. When I shot the first 10 rounds the truth was revealed...gas marks all the way to the base of the cases and once more...zero accuracy. I called Hornady about this...figured that since they made and sold reloading tools and components they might do something for me. Nothing doing! The guy I spoke with could have cared less. I guess Hornady needs to understand that they're not the only company that manufactures reloading tools and components. I've bought my last Hornady anything! All the Frontier brass I had went in the garbage. If I was a betting man I would bet you a goodly sum of money that our pals at Hornady had contracted with PMC to make their ammunition...you know what PMC stands for? Poorly Made cartridges! I wouldn't put it past any of the others to do the same thing with the increased focus on ammo production these days.
 
On firing, chemicals are formed. Before storing brass, cleaning your brass may solve the problem? :scrutiny: Potassium sulfate, sodium sulfate, potassium nitrate, barium nitrate, and other salts may form Nitrate, sulfate, hydrogen sulfide, chloride, and nitrite on firing if i understand it correctly.:confused: http://firearmsid.com/Feature%20Articles/McCord_gunpowder/index.htm :) Others have said > From post #21 http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?58344-Dezincification-of-Brass-Liquid-cleaners
Generaly the combustion products for a single base powder are carbon dioxide, and nitrogen oxides. Under some conditions, methane, carbon monoxide, irritating aldehydes and carboxylic acids, and hydrogen cyanide may be formed.
Having had my own brass problems, i now know not to use vinegar or Ammonia products when cleaning brass.
 
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Cases were cleaned in a tumbler after firing way back when. Probably with Dillon brass polish.

They were stored in a zip-lock bag, in a .50 cal steel ammo box with a good lid seal, until I got them out to reload them last week.

They were fired the first time out of the factory box some time ago in a S&W Model 39, same as all my other 9mm brass that doesn't crack & split when loaded hotter.
And some of that other brass is way older, and stored the same way, in the same can.

It's just a brittle / defective lot for whatever reason.

rc
 
Looks like bad brass to me. Wouldnt be the first time for FC cases. I have had 45acp federal cases that cracked at the case mouth during the first reloading. Fired the factory loading, tumbled in corn cob and nufinish. When seating the bullet, sure enough, they would crack. Almost every one of them from one lot. I have never cared for federal brass since then.
 
dillon rapid polish 290 Could it be this product? http://hazard.com/msds/f2/bcm/bcmhj.html

Environmental engineer and Dillon Rapid Polish user doesn't see anything on the MSDS that would cause brass to get brittle. I personally have about 50 or so pieces (started with a new box of 100 WW) of 9 mm brass that has been reloaded 43 times over the last 5 years and tumbled with Rapid Polish each firing - they have not gotten brittle...at least not yet.

I'm with RCModel. Just a bad batch of brass.

Scott
 
Yup, another Dillon polish user for years. No hardening of brass experienced.

Switched to MidwayUSA FA polish and now also using NuFinish to polish brass - so far, no issues with brass damage.
 
IF I'm picking up range brass, which is seldom,(because just about everybody at my club reloads), I chuck federal brass of ALL calibers into the scrap brass bucket. I certainly don't toss it into the garbage. Same goes for my spent primers.

After experiencing loose primer pockets from the ORIGINAL firing of .223 American eagle (federal budget ammo), I stopped using it altogether. Once fired federal brass had primer pockets so loose they wouldn't hold a small rifle primer!
 
"Lost about 8-10 during sizing & expanding.
Then another 8-10 during bullet seating.
Then 12 more when I shot it."

When I go to the range and want my ammo to look good for those around me, I polish my cases with a home made type spinner, cases that are going to split, 'split' when spun, before I size, seat or fire. To reloadrs the cases just split, to electricians it always looks like electrolysis, oxidization and dissimilar metals, to metal shop workers it is work hardened, to reloaders there was nothing THEN all of sudden, the case splits or the factory did it.

When forming wildcats and or necking up cases when forming, the cases that are subject to splitting will split when necked up as in 30/06 to 35 Whelen and 338/06, The first split is the only warning I get. Just because I had the cases I necked up 280 Remington (Nickel) to 35 Whelen, not a good ideal, failure due to splitting was as high as 30%, so I expected splits, I sized 100 nickel cases. Then I went to 280 Remington brass cases, I lost 2 out of 100 cases because of splitting on once fired. In the perfect world I would have chose new unfired cases for forming, but, not all the cases I necked up were going to be used for loading.

With good cases I do not expect splits when sizing and or seating, to get to the range the pistol case must survive the belling process, and I am not afraid belling the case is going to split it. It is a small sacrifice for a few cases to be used for destruction, as in being tested beyond what is expected, again I spin cases for looks and function.

I have reloaded FA 58 NM (MATCH) cases,l before I read on the Internet the cases went to the Iron & Metal shop because a short cut was used in the precess of manufacturing, it is believed at least one and possibly two annealing precess was eliminated, whatever? it is said they took liberties, I do not know or even care if the problem was corrected and the manufacturing process proceeded or if they changed the process after a few were released, I collect Ol' anything,, so I put the FA58 MATCH cases away in boxes of 20, I tested the cases for all the reasons given for not using cases that are suspected of being fired in a machine gun, work hardened for having been fired too many times, just setting around and doing nothing but aging?? and were made for blank cartridges, I could find no reason for believing the Internet Story. What are the chances my FA cases were purchased from the Iron & Metal yard, before pull down was available and all military brass was once fired. Anyhow by the time I got to the range I knew the cases were not going to split, sworm or render my rifle scrap.

F. Guffey
 
Looks like the result of 5.5 grs of bullseye instead of Unique. Throw them all out and start over.
Shirley, you jest! :what:

No, it was not Bullseye, as there was no Bullseye or any other powder anywhere near the Unique can on the bench.

I repeat for the third time, these were mild loads.
The SIG was tossing cases about 3-4 feet from where I was standing.

And if you don't believe that, look at the fired primers in the picture in post #1.
Absolutely positively no sign of flattening or over-pressure.

rc
 
Defective cases. At least they're only 9mm, I've had a few Remington .45-70 cases do that to me! :eek: And we're not talking anything beyond a 20k CUP load either.

I'd chalk it up to "it happens". It is a manufactured item, and sometimes sub-standard products slip throught the cracks.
 
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