Derringer and 454 Casull

Status
Not open for further replies.
Grumulkin

Grumulkin

Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2005
Messages
3,012
Location
Central Ohio
You can get a Bond Arms derringer chambered in 45 Colt/410 Shotgun. In said derringer, a 454 Casull cartridge fits fine. Would it be safe to shoot a 454 Casull cartridges in said derringer? If you don't think so, what do you think would happen if you did?
 
Huge pressure difference. Bad juju

I fired a .38 Special derringer a few times and got rid of it. Can't imagine a.454. Best be wearing leather gloves and a face guard if you try it

I just got back Friday from a hunt in Montana. One of the guys has a Redhawk in .454. It was quite painful and it is way bigger than a derringer
 
Likely an exploded derringer.

As for the Ruger, the .454 is worse in them since it's a DA frame. In a Freedom SA where the frame can roll in your hand some it's not bad at all.
 
Even in a heavy gun like made by Bond Arms I highly doubt you will be able to hold on to the very small grip. I can fire full power .357 Magnum ammo in a 12oz snub nose revolver but I could not imagine setting off a 454 Casull round in a 5" 20oz Derringer with a tiny grip.

BTW, if it could be safely done it would already be on the market.
 
Well gentlemen, here it is:

http://www.orchardphoto.com/454CasullDerringer.mov

That's my cousin-in-law shooting it. He is an engineer and made an assesment of the thickness of the metal, etc. before shooting it. The Bond Arms derringer is incredibly overmade. And no, they weren't loaded down loads but full power loads I had worked up for a Freedom Arms revolver.

Recoil is pretty incredible. It comes pretty much straight back into the palm of the hand. He had a visible bruise there after shooting. After I saw he didn't lose his arm, I shot it and got no bruise on my palm but did on my index finger.

After shooting the derringer, we shot my 460 Weatherby Magnum. He was embarassed that it didn't hit the target on the first shot; said he flinched, LOL. He didn't flinch the next time and punched a nice hole in a 3/8" steel plate with it. He's a Viet Nam vet and thought the recoil was about like an M14. His memory may be getting a little poor because it's NOT like an M14.

By the way, I'm NOT recommending anyone do this. You do it at your own risk.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I'm surprised the derringer survived!

The .45 Colt and .410 both run at much lower pressures. I think if the OP does this, he should find a way to clamp it in a vise and pull the trigger with a lanyard. Take a look at this info from Freedom Arms, then look up pressure data for .45 and .410. They're not even in the same league.

http://www.freedomarms.com/loading.html


Whether an engineer looks at it or not, it just ain't safe.
 
I asked about the 454 in a 45/410 contender and was told "no way" now you've got me thinking again. I've got an Alaskan and a Rossi92 but the contender sparks my interest
 
I'm well aware of the difference in pressures. More than "a couple" of 454 Casull shots have been taken with it. As I said, it's quite overbuilt.

I also would NEVER try this in a Contender or a Rossi92. If you must try those, definitely use a lanyard. I know how a Contender acts with a 222 Remington that's a little too hot; it will not take a 454 Casull.
 
Last edited:
Well, I have shot a Ruger Alaskan in 454 Casull which is a snub nose revolver that weighs 44oz and has a full grip frame. Your cousin must have Hulk-like hands because the perceived recoil on the video looked like it was much less than in the Alaskan even though the Derringer is much smaller and half the weight.

In any case it's never a good idea to shoot a 454 Casull round in a gun designed to shoot 45 Colt ammo. Your "engineer" can do all the guessing he wants but he can't know what type of heat treating that's done on each. Metal thickness is only a small part of the equation and just because a gun looks beefy doesn't make it strong.
 
For the life of me I'll never understand why anyone would want to shoot a cartridge in a gun that wasn't designed for it. To throw in a little logic, overbuilt or not, no reasonable person would think that firing a cartridge developing 60,000 psi in a gun designed for 25,000 psi would be a good idea. You might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later someone will suffer serious injury. By the way, a 600 Nitro chambers perfectly in a 20ga shotgun. That might be a hoot!
str1
 
ArchAngelCD said:
Well, I have shot a Ruger Alaskan in 454 Casull which is a snub nose revolver that weighs 44oz and has a full grip frame. Your cousin must have Hulk-like hands because the perceived recoil on the video looked like it was much less than in the Alaskan even though the Derringer is much smaller and half the weight.

.
Click to expand...

This. I own the Alaskan in 454 and the recoil is much greater.
 
He is an engineer and made an assesment of the thickness of the metal, etc. before shooting it.
Click to expand...
I'll reemphasize, DO NOT shoot .454 Casull in any .45 Colt / .45 LC firearm even if it does fit. Just because one engineer assessed one firearm, and decided to take a controlled risk with it doesn't make it safe.
 
not that i would ever do it
and i think its goofy to try it

but how much pressure develops with a barrel that short
would seem about the only thing holding the bullet back would be the crimp?
and the rest of the powder is burnt in open air

still nutz
 
Water will fit in my gas tank, heck for what its worth gasoline fits in my cup. I wonder what it taste.like
 
I have to admit, I didn't want to be the first one to try it.

I didn't see flame come out of the barrel unlike my 50 AE so I have to assume most of the powder burned. I also don't think a short barrel will decrease peak pressure that much. Derringer rifleing is rudimentary which may make a difference.

I've shot quite a few large handguns; 500 S&W Magnum, 444 Marlin, 375 H&H Magnum, etc. The felt recoil of the derringer was worse than any of those.
 
If it's .410 chambered, some free bore before the bullet hit the rifling may have changed what was going on with the pressure. The max OAL on a .454 Casull round is 1.765", and .410 will be either 2.5" or 3". There could have been more than an inch of free bore.
But I don't work for Freedom Arms... so your guess is as good as mine.

Still... if someone I knew was trying that, I'd make sure I knew where their keys were and take cover behind the nearest oak tree, fully expecting that I'd have to drive them to the ER within the next ten minutes.

Yeesh!
 
Hell, let's try a 460 mag now.......

Seriously speaking, shooting any cartridge out of a gun that isn't designed to shoot it, and approved by the manufacturer is a terrible idea. I don't care if an "engineer" has looked at it or not.

It's dangerous and exposes someone to possible serious injury for no reason.
 
Last edited:
This is one of those ideas that almost make me want to say, "Try it and let us know what happens." But I am afraid that we might not get any response and would be left wondering what ever happened to Grumulkin.

Jim
 
Grumulkin said:
I also would NEVER try this in a Contender or a Rossi92.
Click to expand...


I don't understand. Rossi makes a 92 in .454 and you would not shoot it, yet you shoot .454 outta a derringer designed for .45 Colt. I don't get it.......but I woulda let someone else shoot it first too.:D
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

K
  • Locked
Derringer
2
Replies
42
Views
3K
PRM
PRM
N
  • Locked
What keeps a .454 Casull out of a .410 gun?
2
Replies
26
Views
10K
Clark
Clark
S
  • Locked
.45LC in 454 Casul?
Replies
7
Views
458
unspellable
U
J
  • Locked
Has anyone carried an American Derringer?
2 3
Replies
51
Views
2K
Catshooter
C
WisBorn
  • Locked
  • Poll
45 / 410 Defense Loads?
2
Replies
36
Views
4K
GEM
G
Back
Top