Desert Tactical SRS .338 Lapua

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Mav,
We don't live that far apart......where are you shooting that has that much range? Finding a range that will get you to 1K is hard enough....but getting out further is going to be tough. I've got a .260 and a new TRG22 that I'm wanting to stretch the legs on
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I live near some high tension power lines that are ideal for long range applications, I am currently in the process of finding/building a range that is safe and has the range I am looking for. If and when I get it going I will be more than happy to let any responsible gun owner (not implying anything) have a go at it. I will send you a PM when I get it settled if you like. 1mi. or even 1k will come later for me, as I need to improve at closer ranges before stretching out that that far. I will likely set up the range for 300 and 500 to start with.
 
Thanks for the information but the rifle (chambered in .300WM) should arrive this Friday. I am rather glad that I went that route as if affords me greater versatility with negligible extra investment in reloading components. The next bbl (quite a ways down the road) will likely be 7mmRM or a .338LM. :)
 
Well if you decide you want a 7mm variant let me know and we'll hook you up. It will certainly be cheaper to shoot than the .338 and the 7mm's will ballistically outperform the .300 offerings.

Many people are confused about the intricacies of a custom caliber for the DTA rifles. First of all, the bbl is a custom contour and is proprietary. You have to have the permission of DTA to get a bbl made. So far, that I know of, only one company is CNC machining blanks with the DTA contour other than Krieger, and Krieger isn't even interested in doing a bbl for anyone. The bbl has a critical dimension shoulder that must be precise with .001 of an inch, and a gunsmith will have to cut the tenon to meet that spec. The next issue would be in the bbl shank, it must also be within .001" at 1.250 of an inch. There is NO room for mistake.

Many folks will talk about how easy it would be to send a bbl to your favorite smith, but thus far there is only one doing it. :evil:

Even if someone else were able to, would they offer a .5MOA guarantee on a platform they didn't build? Not to mention additional bolts and bbl extension would cost over $700.00.

DSC00588Large.jpg

I own 4 of these rifles, I know just a little bit about them. ;)
 
First of all, the bbl is a custom contour and is proprietary. You have to have the permission of DTA to get a bbl made
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Let's assume someone gets their hands on a factory barrel and an extra barrel extension. What is preventing them from copying all the critical dimensions and making it work? I don't see any patent pending information on their web site and a quick search of applications on uspto.gov for "desert tactical" didn't come up with anything. Is there a patent application filed?

If not, how does one need permission to cut a barrel to a certain contour? Are they going to hold the barrel extensions "hostage" as a form of permission?
 
For someone to copy the contour would be work enough without a spec sheet from DTA. Can't answer the "patent pending" questions, Nick would have to speak for that. I'm sure it could be duplicated, there are some talented machinists out there, but your not going to call your favorite bbl maker and get one of these.

As for the bbl extensions, I have a few of them and have shown them to my gunsmith/machinist friend. A quick look at them and he expressed there would be significant cost in replicating it. I can get all of them I need from DTA, which is where I got permission and a spec sheet to copy the bbl contours. I have quite a bit of foot work in getting the barrels built, and have spent quite a bit of coin as well. I welcome anyone else that wants to travel that road to "pack a sammich". DTA understands the role a person like myself plays in their ability to sell rifles when more calibers are available. If I never sell a bbl conversion, I'm ok, I got the ones I wanted out of the deal. As a side note, I wouldn't make anything on any conversion I sell, just a little on the chassis if someone were to purchase it from me, a Desert Tactical Arms Premier Dealer.
 
So it is not true, then, that one "needs the permission of DTA to get a bbl made"?

If this is indeed not true, then it is misleading for you, a dealer of DTA-spec barrels, to claim it is.
 
FWIW, Melissa at DTA said they had extensions ready for if/when I wanted to rebarrel to a different chambering (that is not offered). IIRC Nick said that any smith should be able to add a barrel (of any manufacture) to the extension (which is the only sensitive part of the barrel contour according to Nick...the owner/designer). I think Krieger will be my choice bbl, have yet to decide upon the chambering, but I have plenty of time to think about it while I am wearing this one out. :D

Lets move further discussion to...here...the rifle arrived today. :)
 
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As far as I know Zak, it is a correct statement. I did not say it was legal or ok for someone to copy the bbl, I agreed it could be done with enough work and knowledge of the bbl setup. You would need to contact Desert Tactical Arms at 801-975-7272 if you want an answer to that from the designer/owner of the company.

As is the one where I said I don't make a dime off the bbl conversions. You do the math.
custom contoured bbl = $???
Chamber and threading = $???
Barrel Extension = $???
Bolt = $???

Please refrain from attempts to attack my character. A conversation can be had without insinuations such as those.
 
Maverick223 said:
FWIW, Melissa at DTA said they had extensions ready for if/when I wanted to rebarrel to a different cambering (that is not offered). IIRC Nick said that any smith should be able to add a barrel (of any manufacture) to the extension (which is the only sensitive part of the barrel contour according to Nick...the owner/designer). I think Krieger will be my choice bbl, have yet to decide upon the chambering, but I have plenty of time to think about it while I am wearing this one out. :D

Lets move further discussion to...here...the rifle arrived today. :)
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Maverick, have you contacted Krieger about getting a DTA contour bbl? They would seem to be the logical choice since they already have a program written for turning out the barrels right? Let me know what they tell you.
 
And so you know, the bbl shank and shoulder are equally as critical as the bbl extension. The extension simply screws on the bbl, if the shank were an incorrect dimension, the bbl would flop loosely in the receiver. If the critical dimension shoulder is too long or too short, the half moon bbl cam would not engage it and therefor loose it's ability to hold the head spacing. But I digress, you guys are well informed with the information you've been given, I'm just wasting my time here.
 
Maverick, have you contacted Krieger about getting a DTA contour bbl? They would seem to be the logical choice since they already have a program written for turning out the barrels right? Let me know what they tell you.
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To be quite honest I am not the least bit worried about it right now...it will be some time before I consider a new bbl...so far I have fired a grand total of TWO rounds, I may fire three tomorrow. :D
 
Well I hope their stance on the barrels changes, it would be nice to have other options out there, but at the moment, they have no desire what-so-ever to sell a DTA bbl to anyone other than DTA.
 
As far as I know Zak, it is a correct statement. I did not say it was legal or ok for someone to copy the bbl, I agreed it could be done with enough work and knowledge of the bbl setup.
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To be clear, you claimed that one needs the permission of DTA to "get a barrel made"; I am asking you to back up that claim. (And I alluded to the two methods I could think of for DTA to legitimately require "permission.") Since your reply did not cite anything to back it up, I concluded there was nothing.
 
Zak are you saying because you cannot find a patent in reference to the Desert Tactical Arms Stealth Recon Scout Rifle that it does not exist? Yet you want to publicly attack my character and accuse me of profiteering? I asked you to fill in the blanks on the bbl conversion above. There's proof enough in that... I have no reason to provide falsified information, and simply because YOU cannot find it... I guess I just lost a little respect for you. Bet that's going to really upset you too huh.

Maverick, I was merely attempting to offer a solution to your quest for additional calibers. My apologies for your thread spinning off like this.
 
it would be nice to have other options out there, but at the moment, they have no desire what-so-ever to sell a DTA bbl to anyone other than DTA.
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I agree, I just don't see the need in worrying about it right now.
Zak are you saying because you cannot find a patent in reference to the Desert Tactical Arms Stealth Recon Scout Rifle that it does not exist?
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What Zak is saying is that anyone can make the bbl, even to that profile...and I am reasonably certain that he is correct. :)
 
Kind of like this one...

Designed for operators, by operators. The new Remington® Modular Sniper Rifle (MSR™) combines lethal accuracy at 1500 meters with a user adjustable folding stock, free-float handguard, and the potential to change barrel lengths and calibers within minutes at the user level from .338 Lapua Magnum to .338 Norma Magnum to .300 Winchester Magnum to 7.62mm NATO. This patent-pending system addresses long range and medium range performance needs of the modern battlefield in one package loaded with features designed to meet multiple emerging US armed forces requirements. The system features lightweight, efficient design and optimal material selection for corrosion resistance and strength. The MSR is mission-adaptable and can change the bolt face, barrel, and magazine to enable a smaller profile or different caliber. This system truly never has to leave the battlefield.
http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/msr.htm
 
I think it would be difficult to patent a bbl profile...you must prove that the new profile is an improvement and significantly different from existing designs. I am not a patent attorney but that is my take on things. :)
 
When you get the chance, take your bbl out and look at it. ;)

I have no proof that the bbl, the rifle, or any part therein is patented. I do believe the bbl could be reverse engineered. I also think doing it without the permission of Desert Tactical Arms would be counter productive.
 
Maverick223 said:
I think it would be difficult to patent a bbl profile...you must prove that the new profile is an improvement and significantly different from existing designs. I am not a patent attorney but that is my take on things. :)
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Do you think the Remington MSR meets that criteria?
 
Do you think the Remington MSR meets that criteria?
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Don't know much about it so I haven't a clue...not looking to copy a Rem. MSR so it shouldn't be an issue either way. :)
 
kgunz11,

Zak are you saying because you cannot find a patent in reference to the Desert Tactical Arms Stealth Recon Scout Rifle that it does not exist?
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One of the guidelines of a logical argument is that the party who makes a claim is responsible for backing up that claim; it is not the other party's responsibility to prove it for him (or prove it false, for that matter). Since you claimed that DTA required permission to replicate the SRS barrel profile, it is completely reasonable to ask you to back that up.

A patent is the primary legal mechanism to prevent others from replicating a product feature already in the marketplace. A trade secret would apply to technical specifications or know-how relating to how to actually produce the barrel, but it seems like we agree that, and it was my original point that, a barrel profile setup can be replicated with common CNC technology by simply examining the rifle and the barrel and measuring the appropriate parts to the proper precision. Thus, a patent is the most likely method and a cursory check did not reveal there was one filed. There certainly might be one; that would be a easy way to demonstrate your claim.

As for an attack on your character, well, if there is no legitimate mechanism to say permission is required, that it is misleading and that's all I said.

I'm out for the weekend, so don't get wrapped around the axle about it. I am genuinely curious how DTA would require permission from would-be barrel profilers to do their thing. Maverick223, have fun with your rifle! Hope your mags come in soon.
 
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