Dickson City, Pa Police Harass Gun Owners

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"The police are not in jail because they are the police?" I don't think I follow. What is a policeman, Matt? According to most people, is it not someone who must abide by and enforce the law?

Why do they get a "by" for harassing law-abiding citizens and unlawfully taking their property where you and I cannot?

Again, why are they not in jail? Were their actions not unlawful? I ask the same about the New Orleans police who unlawfully confiscated firearms. Any other person would be in prison for unlawfully taking other people's property. Why not them? Why weren't those "few bad apples" thrown into prison? Why aren't the "few bad apples" that swarmed and began to beat a non-resisting man in Baltimore not sitting in prison, where you and I would be, if we were to do what they did (which was unlawful.)

-Sans Authoritas
 
I don’t necessarily believe the cops should be disciplined. I do not think they should go to jail. Here’s what I’d like to see happen: The police chief should apologize to those OC’ers involved whose rights were violated. The chief should immediately and personally return the illegally confiscated firearm to the owner. The town council should issue a training memo to all officers detailing PA state law on this issue. All officers should adhere to the law in the future.
 
Matt, why on earth should they not be disciplined or go to prison? They broke the law! Are the police above the law they are supposed to enforce?

They should adhere the law in the future? Yes, we should all do what is moral and just in the future. That doesn't mean we're immune from consequences of the actions we just performed within the week!


-Sans Authoritas
 
Sans,
I have no blue bricks left here. Zero. I may have incorrectly interpreted your post #47. Perhaps I missed the implied sarcasm. I think the cops were 100% wrong. However, don't know if their actions justify jail time. I'd much rather see positive and constructive changes in their enforcement of the law- i.e- they never again falsely arrest anyone for legally carrying a firearm.
 
Matt, they broke the law. If we broke the law, we would already be in jail, or at the very least, facing criminal charges. It is elitism to suggest otherwise. Respecting a badge more than justice is problematic and wrong.

-Sans Authorita
 
I understand the cops broke the law. What I suggest is not Elitism. I am not excusing what they did. My first post here was based on the fact that I thought in your post #47 you were giving the police officers a pass. Your implications that I am an elitist or that I respect a badge more than justice could not be further from the truth. I am neither and if this wasn't the internet I'd be offended. I have seen my share of police officers who did not fairly administer justice. That is one reason I'm now in the private sector.
 
this isn't the first time the LEO was guilty of harassing OC'ers. She had prior knowledge of the law.
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This is why she should be facing charges as well as the chief for not returning property
If we can't say I didn't know the law Then those we pay to enforce them can't use that excuse either.
Since a pistol has been stolen I belive Feds should also investagate the stolen pistol as well as civil rights vilotations .
Make this PD Chief and officers involved a example So others will think twice
 
Matt, with all due respect, elitism is precisely the idea that some people are less subject to the law of the land than other people. If you think anyone who did what those officers did should be walking free, I have no problem with your logic. But to claim that our fellow citizens, by virtue of a piece of shiny metal, should not do jail time after breaking the law is unconscionable.

-Sans Authoritas
 
I have seen my share of police officers who did not fairly administer justice. That is one reason I'm now in the private sector.
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And if I may be the first to say it, welcome back to the free market. It's much cleaner here.

-Sans Authoritas
 
I don't know what else to say. The police dept made a very bad mistake. I'd much rather see those who were violated receive a cash settlement for going through this ordeal. An apology and assurance from the DCPD that this mistake will not happen again is essential. I do have some empathy for police in general terms. If I deprive someone of their freedom/property, I should go to jail in large part because I have no business to be in that position to begin with. It is beyond the scope of my employment. Police officers are required to deprive criminals of their freedom on a daily basis. These officers made a very big mistake because the OC’ers were not criminals. I am extremely troubled by this. Please re-read your post #47 and my post #48. I would not be bothered if the police officers involved here go to jail, I just don’t know if that is the most appropriate solution. It has absolutely nothing, zero, zip to do with me thinking the police are above you and I. I do not think that, please stop implying it.
 
I would not be bothered if the police officers involved here go to jail, I just don’t know if that is the most appropriate solution. It has absolutely nothing, zero, zip to do with me thinking the police are above you and I.
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Matt, I believe you.

-Sans Authoritas
 
Thank you.

Additionally, if this is some type of pattern with this PD, I will personally write the local DA and insist that criminal charges be filed against the offending officers.
 
Additionally, if this is some type of pattern with this PD, I will personally write the local DA and insist that criminal charges be filed against the offending officers.
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Matt, if the local DA sees the pattern (which he will, if he is not deliberately averting his eyes) and still refuses to do the right thing, will your letter really convince him?

Sending a letter might work in the free market, where a business has a reputation to keep lest they lose business. Government is not about to lose anyone's business. Your letter will be ignored.

-Sans Authoritas
 
I know a letter won't work, but I cannot stand by and do nothing other than post on an internet forum. If you have any more effective suggestions, please share them with me. I also spoke (via IM) with the man who was arrested, I have pledged to contribute to his legal fund.

I don't doubt those who say this is a pattern, but I've never heard of an issue like this in this area. Can you enlighten me?
 
Matt, posting on an internet forum is, despite some people's views, actually rather effective. Broadcasting truth and ideas in any medium is effective in changing the whole culture and atmosphere. The only way to fight falsehoods and lies is with truth, not violence. Contributing to his legal fund and other funds are also noble and efficacious things to do.

As for getting justice in this instance? It won't happen.

It is a pattern. People are hassled and thugged about for open-carrying all the time, more and more. Cops are getting an education in the law, but unfortunately, citizens are the textbooks.

The most effective thing we can do is convince more people to open carry, to make it as accepted and common as walking down the street with a hat on. Ideally, as common as someone walking down the street with a hat on in the 1940's.

-Sans Authoritas
 
I've never open carried publicly before (other than former LE duty), but due to this incident, I am trying to muster the courage. I usually do CC on a daily basis.
 
Very likely irrelevant but possibly of some interest is that a former part-time Dickson City, PA, police officer and her former boyfriend were arrested in June of 2007 for fraudulently obtaining prescription drugs.

Of potentially more interest is the statement made by Pennsylvania's Attorney General, Tom Corbett, at the time:

"Police officers are in place to uphold the laws of Pennsylvania and ensure that our communities are safe," Corbett said. "It is extremely disheartening that these two individuals forgot about their promise to serve the people's best interest and turned to crime to feed their addiction."
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Probably of no interest to any one but me is a hunch that the taxpayers of Dickson City, PA, won't be happy with their police chief. From the slight amount of research I've done, Dickson City does not seem to be affluent.
 
I don’t necessarily believe the cops should be disciplined. I do not think they should go to jail. Here’s what I’d like to see happen: The police chief should apologize to those OC’ers involved whose rights were violated. The chief should immediately and personally return the illegally confiscated firearm to the owner. The town council should issue a training memo to all officers detailing PA state law on this issue. All officers should adhere to the law in the future.
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What would happen to any citizen who held that female cop against her will and stole HER gun? JAIL TIME.

Fortunately, the victim of this crime has reported the theft to the PA State Police. I believe he must also [by Federal law] report it to the BATFE.
 
First, before the police got there the 911 call was changed to no complaint.
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This could have a BIG impact on the officers' qualified immunity. If they persisted in their actions after being told there WASN'T a law enforcement matter in play, they did so ON THEIR OWN. Sounds like the city is hanging them out to dry without saying so. Good, they deserve it.
 
Not To Hijack The Thread...

...But it seems that this incident is also making waves among cops. Check out this discussion at the Officer.com "Squad Room" (postings limited to LEOs).

This post was interesting:

"Contrary to all of their beliefs, and that of the last poster... it is NOT legal to open-carry a firearm in pennsylvania. The pennsylvania firearms chapter allows for concealed carry on a person or in a vehicle...They're a bunch of liberal "stuff" stirrers that are of the belief that the federal constitution takes precedence over the state constitution... and in this case it does NOT."

It seems this gentleman believes that if something isn't explicitly declared legal, it must therefore be illegal.


I also found an expanded discussion among cops regarding open-carriers on this thread. This particular comment caught my attention:

"You would think 'opencarry' would be a good thing but there seems to be a lot of wannabe cops there. On just about every LE post (which is a lot) somebody will "remind" everybody that police are equal to citizens. But guess what, THEY'RE NOT!! I tried to get that point across and failed. The normal citizen (even a gun carrying anti-government militia type who can't pass the psychological test for their local police department nut) doesn't have arrest power and I guess they are angry about that."


To all LEOs on THR: In your estimation, how widespread would you say these attitudes/beliefs/convictions are among the officers you know/work with? I'm curious...
 
In my dept, I'd say about 50-50. Half believe they are no different than other citizens, the other half think that they deserve more respect, because they are Cops.

lawson4
 
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