Did I steer him right? .300 Blackout Question

[Spats McGee]

I mentioned in my "Plinker's Paradise" thread that I have a friend with some hearing loss. I'll call it "moderate" hearing loss. He's not stone deaf, but I do have to repeat myself for him from time to time. We discussed suppressors, and he mentioned that he was thinking about suppressing an AR for home defense purposes. I think he already has an AR, so I suggested a suppressed AR in .300 Blackout. For some reason, I thought .300 BO was already subsonic, but a quick internet search tells me that's not always the case. Looks like lighter bullets get well into supersonic range. I told him that I thought all he would need would be a .300 BO upper and a suppressor, and he should be good to go. As you might imagine, he tries very hard to protect the hearing he has left, often doubling up on plugs and muffs.

I shot a rifle in .300 Whisper one time, about 10 years ago, and I've never shot .300 BO. IOW, I'm way off into territory about which I know next to nothing. Did I miss anything? Would .300 Whisper be a better option and if so, why? Is there anything else I need to consider, knowing that key elements are: HD, shooter age 60-70, generally good health exc. aforementioned hearing loss, possible use by his wife, also in good health and a shooter in her own right?

 

[bearcreek]

.300 BLK and .300 Whisper are essentially the same thing. https://gundigest.com/gear-ammo/ammunition/300-blackout-vs-300-whisper-is-there-a-difference If he wants subsonic ammo, he can buy or load it. Even with supersonic, a suppressor will help significantly. So no, I wouldn't say you steered him wrong, other than the idea that all .300 BLK is subsonic.

 

[TonyAngel]

If quiet is what you want, 300BO with subs and a suppressor is certainly pretty quiet. I wouldn't say that you pointed him in the wrong direction. Whisper and BO are essentially the same thing. Stick with BO, if for no other reason than availability of ammo.

 

[berettaprofessor]

Yep, 300BO, suppressor, and just specify going for subsonics....although he should know that already.

 

[Beck]

It seems like sound advise to me (no pun). 300 BLK is a great round, made for subsonic, and seemingly as an afterthought pressed into supersonic with light bullets. Just keep them heavy and suppressed and he should be good to go.

 

[W.E.G.]

I think suppressed 300BLK is an enthusiast's caliber.

If the person needs to be coached about it, the caliber is not right for him.

Learning suppressors just adds another layer of complexity.

And then there's the "pistol" brace issue unless he's gonna make it a two-stamp suppressed SBR.

No. Not at this point in his life. Not unless he's gung ho about it and really eager to learn the "platform."

For self-defense purposes, his money and time would be best spent TRAINING on a weapons system he already knows.

I really like my braced and suppressed 300BLK. I'm an enthusiast.

 

[W.E.G.]

BTW, the LAPUA purpose-built 200 grain bullet for subsonics is the very best for accuracy and consistent velocity.

The Sierras are OK too. But if you want to really drop velocities to eliminate the "first shot pop," the LAPUA 200 is the way to go for best consistency of velocity, and accuracy, and dimished likelihood of baffle-strike. Lots of bearing-surface area is desirable as velocities are lowered.

 

[jmorris]

I have a suppressed 300 but I don't use subs in it. A 45 acp can deliver heavy subs in a more compact package and we don't even need to argue about trajectory for CQB use.

Threads like these always makes me wonder where people live and just how many rounds a year they have to fire inside their home defending it.

 

[mavracer]

In my honest opinion too much is made about the supersonic crack from a suppressed gun especially an AR or other semi auto where port pop exists.
Perception is that the crack is loud because it's a sharp high pitched noise but it's out in front of the gun and not real painful at the shooters ear.
All that said the 300 with subs should be fine for self defense I use Hornady Sub-X in mine and practice with cheap 200gr Winchester or reloads with Berry's 200gr plated.
I belive supers are probably more effective for most purposes but I have 5.56 and 350 legend for that.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

While 5.56 is good for defense I'd take my .300 Blackout if given the choice. The lightest common bullet weights for the .300 are 30+ grains heavier than the heaviest common 5.56 loadings and if you want to heavy you can go all the way to 220gr. The .300 has a tad more recoil but it's still minimal but the muzzle blast and noise is substantially less. The mags on my plate carrier are loaded with 115gr and 110gr which I think will work well if required for HD (I'd have very little opportunity nor need to take a shot much over 75 yards where I live, unless I'm camping or something).

 

[zeke]

For inside, like to go as short as practical. If protecting your home involves outside in rural area, other factors may come into consideration. A sbr in pistol caliber with one of the "shorty" cans is easily controllable and very short. Ime, with the firearms presently owned, a 5 in suppressed 45acp is slightly louder than a 8 in suppressed 300 bo with sub-sonic. As an aside, a short suppressed 300 bo or 223 with supersonic is a lot quieter than unsuppressed pistol.

Am using Lapua's 200 gn subsonic in bolt 308, where the long bullet appears partially designed to use up case volume as very little of it extends beyond the case mouth till you hit the full dia of the bullet. Very accurate bullet in firearm used in.

An interesting experiment in experiencing the super sonic "crack" is to shoot a suppressed super sonic round into an embankment at close range.

 

[Lennyjoe]

I have a 10” barreled SBR in .300 BO with an AAC Cyclone suppressor and shoot 190 gr Sub-X loaded enough to keep the bullet moving around 1100 fps. It’s super quiet with that combination. Still haven’t tried the Rex bullets yet, but there’s a few subsonic loads on the market that will serve his purpose.

 

[mavracer]

An interesting experiment in experiencing the super sonic "crack" is to shoot a suppressed super sonic round into an embankment at close range.

Also until someone gets some real time experience shooting suppressed, it's hard for some to believe just how loud the bullet wracking something can be.
We have a 100yard indoor range here, shooting 300 BO subs you get a pfffft and then what sounds like a giant gong downrange.

 

[rust collector]

Spats, your advice tracks completely with mine. Every self defense option is a compromise, but a suppressed PDW with subs is IMO a good combination. When you update your friend on sub-sonic ammo, I am sure you will remind him that 300 BO in a 5.56 gun may not go well.

 

[jmorris]

Also until someone gets some real time experience shooting suppressed, it's hard for some to believe just how loud the bullet wracking something can be.

Gong target

www.youtube.com

The closest I have come to defending my home by firing inside it is shooting coyotes out by the chicken coop from the pool room upstairs and I do use suppressed stuff for that so Mrs. Morris stays a happy wife.



And even the puny 9mm works for that.



If there were someone "bad" in the house, I wouldn't waste a hundredth of a second going after a suppressed firearm, if there were an unsuppressed one I could put to use faster. Simple matter of importance.

 

[CraigC]

I don't think you steered him in the wrong direction at all. You just have to match your loads to your purpose. Without getting too deep in the weeds, anything 150gr and below will be supersonic and anything heavier will be subsonic. I've had very good luck with the Nosler 220gr and Hornady 190gr on deer-shaped critters.

As others have said, Blackout and Whisper are essentially the same.

I wouldn't agree that the Blk is an enthusiasts choice. Sure, it's more expensive than 5.56 (so is everything else) but there are plenty of factory loads available to cover any purpose. Nothing complex about screwing a can on the muzzle either.

As a basic concept, I think a suppressed home defense gun makes a HUGE amount of sense. I'm 49yrs old, hopefully with a couple more decades in front of me. I already have measurable hearing loss. My ears are constantly ringing, it contributes to my headaches and affects my sleep. I'm also much more sensitive to noise. Anything above a .22LR with subs hurts my ears. Supers or the .22Mag with the same suppressor and no hearing protection, hurts my ears. Sounds good to be gung ho and say, "I don't care, there are more important things" but lighting off ANY unsuppressed firearm in an enclosed space like the hallway of your home will have an immediate and permanent effect on your hearing. Something you may have trouble living with afterwards.

I do agree that the supersonic crack is something you should protect yourself from at the range. That said, the supersonic crack from a suppressed firearm indoors is going to be a huge advantage over one without a suppressor. The crack won't make your ears bleed but uncorked muzzle blast will.

 

[C-grunt]

One other thing Id have him look into are actual 300 Blk magazines. It does work well in regular 5.56 magazines but the bullet stack in the mag is less than ideal. For something used for home defense, get a couple of the actual 300 mags. For range use the regular 5.56 mags should run fine.

 

[DustyGmt]

Sounds like good advice to me. If I didn't have to fill out forms and submit prints and pay $200 that's exactly the setup I would have at the bedside. I'm 99.9% certain the issue will never come up, but if it does I guess best case scenario is I'm able to convince the intruder to kiss the floor and wait for police, 2nd best will be some hearing loss. Still, I really wish I could just go buy a can for the sake of my hearing and not disturbing neighbors, etc.... I see cans in gun shops all the time and every time I just shake my head thinking about the whole process and don't know why I can't just slap $$$ down on the table and walk out with it. It would still be absurd to me even if all one had to do was fill out a 4473 for one but I could live with that...... Drifting, sorry.

The suppressed .300BO SBR would be the top selling HD firearm in the country absent current regs. I'm certain of that.

 

[Gordon]

I and a son who is the curator of the NFA Family trust have a few .300 BO and we are very enthusiastic about the caliber. We have 16" guns that we shoot super sonic ammo in to shoot game and Varmints and fun to get all the velocity and power we can. The 110 Monolithic Hollow points are devastating on deer sized game at 2400 fps to 200 yards . The 115s are about the same and the 125 grains great at 2200+ have great penetration on large wild boar out to 200 yards. Thats very close to 7.62x39 which is also considered a 30-30 "light" by some. We don't normally suppressed those rifles by we can if we want and suppressed they are probably hearing safe. The 8" and 10" carbines we own mostly are suppressed hand loaded sub sonics and we use 220 "seconds" jacketed or we also cast some 220 round noses that work real well . We have shot a few deer now with the shorter barreled subsonics but truthfully take neck or my son takes brain shots and they have been instant 50- 120 yard shots. I am not real comfortable with sub sonic use of .300 black out for deer hunting , but have now and with CNS shots it works great and near silently close in around our yards ect and orchards. I have only shot hogs in Calif with 16" 125 grain Super sonic unsuppressed , because- California . In fact I am not sure of the Monolithic ammo weight I used on a large ranch hunts there but it worked ok at 120 or so yards on 250 pound wild boar.
Truthfully tho I think subsonic .223 loads are stupid and hard to get to cycle in an AR and like a .22 Super sniper Load in power , I still , as my son does also, use a 10 or 11" SBR 5.56 AR with a 5.56 supersonic designed short suppressor for home defense ; which is not blasty enough Indoors to damage ears in an emergency or disturb your engagement skills like an Unsuppressed SBR would indoors. That's what the Military fight with house to house after all . A supersonic good 5.56 load at 100 yards or s in a defense situation is Big medicine in my humble opinion on humans. I think W.E.G.'s post was right on.

 

[MachIVshooter]

In a manual action with a good can, subsonic .300 blk is really quiet. In an autoloader, though, it's still pretty loud at ear due to port noise. Subsonic .300 blk is lower pressure, and as such, the port location and size are configured to allow enough gas volume at high enough pressure to cycle the gun, so port pop is about on par with 5.56. I find it uncomfortable.

Because of that, I really have no use for the cartridge. There are, IMO, better choices for quiet subsonic rounds in a manual action gun, and I'd rather just run 5.56 in an AR when I'm gonna have to tolerate mid to high 130s dB port noise anyway.

 

[DustyGmt]

This is why I love the forum. You can read one post that you totally agree with and then scroll down and read a new post that is completely opposite opinion and agree with it too. It's annoying at times, but it makes you research and learn about things and you dont get stuck on one thing from one source closing yourself off from acquiring knowledge. My mind is seldom totally made up about any one thing and sometimes I like reading threads that often get closed because they've been "beat to death". I still find value in some of those threads......

 

[mavracer]

This is why I love the forum. You can read one post that you totally agree with and then scroll down and read a new post that is completely opposite opinion and agree with it too. It's annoying at times, but it makes you research and learn about things and you dont get stuck on one thing from one source closing yourself off from acquiring knowledge. My mind is seldom totally made up about any one thing and sometimes I like reading threads that often get closed because they've been "beat to death". I still find value in some of those threads......

Does piston vs direct impingement make any difference in port pop? I don't have a piston gun that I could try but my experience with straight blow back 22 and 9mm tell me the pop isn't from the gas tube.

 

[Captains1911]

My home defense rifle is a 9” suppressed 300 BLK loaded with Barnes Tac-TX 110gr supers. Certainly louder than subs, but with the can still much easier on the ears than anything unsuppressed, and that cartridge is devastating out to at least 200 yards or so.

 

[d31tc]

Gong target

www.youtube.com

The closest I have come to defending my home by firing inside it is shooting coyotes out by the chicken coop from the pool room upstairs and I do use suppressed stuff for that so Mrs. Morris stays a happy wife.

View attachment 1197227

And even the puny 9mm works for that.

Reminds me of eliminating rodents by the bird feeder located near the wood pile with the 10-22 when I was a kid from my parents bedroom window. Only had the sheriff stop by once when I was shooting (we lived in city limits, but our property line was the city limit). The parents weren't home and the neighbors were a little skittish and had called the sheriff. The sheriff just told me to stop shooting in city limits, so I just went 75 feet over to the field and shot from there. I was about 13 at the time. Different times.