Ed Ames
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I think the poster thought they were throwing a metaphorical conversation hand grenade/going to kick off a .40 vs 10mm war.
Did you ever throw a hand grenade - 10 mm
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I think the poster thought they were throwing a metaphorical conversation hand grenade/going to kick off a .40 vs 10mm war.
OP
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PWC
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You got it!
buck460XVR
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The comparison to .357 and .38 special is a good one. Both make the same size hole, but one has more oomph and recoil. I was always told that the 10mm was made to replace the .357 revolver in an auto platform. It became popular back when 9mm ammo was still pretty anemic and didn't penetrate soft body armor or heavy clothing. LEO agencies found that small statured folks that had issues with recoil shot better with the new .40 and it's lower recoil than the 10mm. As others have said, the reason both struggled in the civilian market was ammo cost and availability as compared to 9mm. Now with improved ammo, the 9mm has made a comeback in the LEO/military field of play.
That video is a GREAT example of why the FBI standards are what they are. Each layer of denim took 1" of penetration off that round.
bangswitch
Member
I like chocolate, you like vanilla, and somebody else prefers strawberry. Simple preference, mostly, and perception of power. When semiautos gained more and more popularity in the late '70s, revolvers became passe, and now have made a resurgence. FBI decided to adopt 10mm, it became the best thing since sliced bread and everybody had to have one, especially after Sonny Crocket started shooting coke dealers with his Bren-Ten. Same thing happened after the limp-wristed lady agents couldn't handle the 10mm recoil and the Bureau decided to shorten it up and go to .40S&W. Now it's king of the hill and everybody wants to dump their 10. 9mm and .45 still had their fan base, but dollars to donuts those guys also had a 10mm or .40 in the desk drawer. Now .40S&W is, meh,, and 10mm is coming back big time. A few years down the road, who knows what will be the best thing since sliced bread. Maybe some spectacular advance in .32 Auto will have everyone ditching their big-bores for a pocket cannon.
I have all four (9mm, 10mm, .40 and .45), plus .357 and .38Spl, love them all. If I had to have a preference of just ONE, it's probably 10mm. I've owned one since 1992. Solid, kick-ass round that makes a .45 feel like a .38Spl when you fire them one after the other. If you have your back turned at the range and somebody lets go on a 10mm, you spin around, thinking somebody's gun just blew up. I load mine with 155 JHP's at 1475 fps. A bit like having a hot .357 in a semiauto (a Ruger SR1911, in my case).
I have both .40 and 10mm (and even the super deadly 9mm) and both are very good. The 10mm is more powerful, not a LOT more powerful but it also generally requires a larger frame gun than the .40, which most often runs out of 9mm sized guns. People like to hate the .40 and love the 10mm, haven't really figured that one out yet, but it is what it is and if I had to choose just one, I'd probably go .40 overall.
Also the .40 and 10mm use the same diameter bullet, it seems like the original question was the difference between .3937" and .4000" but both .40 and 10mm use .400-.401" bullets.
For the guy above asking about 10mm vs 340PD, the 10mm feels like a hand message compared to that little devil.
Also the .40 and 10mm use the same diameter bullet, it seems like the original question was the difference between .3937" and .4000" but both .40 and 10mm use .400-.401" bullets.
For the guy above asking about 10mm vs 340PD, the 10mm feels like a hand message compared to that little devil.
I like 10mm a lot, but for most people 40, 45, or 9mm are a better choice. The round fills a specific role for me and not everyone can benefit from it's advantages. I spend a lot of time hunting/camping/hiking in remote places and even when hunting prefer to have a handgun on me. Bear are a possibility, but are farther down my list of concerns.
Getting back to an empty parking lot, after dark in a remote location, often an hours drive back to pavement means I want a handgun small enough to conceal easily, with more than 6 rounds, and more power than a typical 9mm pistol in the rare event of a bear encounter.
My G29 in 10mm fills that role better than anything I've found. If I'm in an area where there are no large predators I will carry an even smaller, lighter pistol in 9mm. If I never ventured into wild places I'd probably never own a 10mm. For 2 legged predators I don't see its power as an advantage over more common rounds.
But 200 gr hardast loads at 1300 fps are a little more comforting when I'm sleeping in a tent in bear country than 9mm. That's about 200 fps faster than a 40 S&W will shoot 200 gr loads.
Getting back to an empty parking lot, after dark in a remote location, often an hours drive back to pavement means I want a handgun small enough to conceal easily, with more than 6 rounds, and more power than a typical 9mm pistol in the rare event of a bear encounter.
My G29 in 10mm fills that role better than anything I've found. If I'm in an area where there are no large predators I will carry an even smaller, lighter pistol in 9mm. If I never ventured into wild places I'd probably never own a 10mm. For 2 legged predators I don't see its power as an advantage over more common rounds.
But 200 gr hardast loads at 1300 fps are a little more comforting when I'm sleeping in a tent in bear country than 9mm. That's about 200 fps faster than a 40 S&W will shoot 200 gr loads.
orionengnr
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"For the guy above asking about 10mm vs 340PD, the 10mm feels like a hand message compared to that little devil."
Amen. But a lot of that is down to weight--the 340 weighs (IIRC) 12-13 oz, and a Commander-size 10mm like my DW is probably 38 oz (both are empty weights).
I owned a 340 (two of them, actually) and a 360 (exposed hammer version). ten or twelve years later, my wrist still hurts.
The DW is a pussycat in comparison. Actually, I'd say that my 642 is a fair bit more unpleasant to shoot than the DW.
Again, weight is the key...and maybe the semi-auto absorbing some of the recoil through its actuation.
Amen. But a lot of that is down to weight--the 340 weighs (IIRC) 12-13 oz, and a Commander-size 10mm like my DW is probably 38 oz (both are empty weights).
I owned a 340 (two of them, actually) and a 360 (exposed hammer version). ten or twelve years later, my wrist still hurts.
The DW is a pussycat in comparison. Actually, I'd say that my 642 is a fair bit more unpleasant to shoot than the DW.
Again, weight is the key...and maybe the semi-auto absorbing some of the recoil through its actuation.
CapnMac
Member
As above, the allusion was metaphorical.
Mach as in how I prefer either a Mk 8 or a Mk18 for flinging grenades than my puny old arms. (That and the experience to know that where one is needful, ten are usually better.)
Pat Riot
Contributing Member
You own a Glock 18? Really? Pictures please
...video would be much cooler I think I want a Glock 20SF but I will not buy one until I shoot one. I would like to rent one at a range to see if I like the felt recoil in an autoloader. The 10mm interests me but I am not going to get to involved with getting set up for reloading until I fire one.
OP
OP
PWC
Member
Not hand, but with M79...one impacting, one on the way, another just launched.
Not in the pickle barrel, but really close enough to be a terrible health hazard.
Not in the pickle barrel, but really close enough to be a terrible health hazard.
el Godfather
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You own a Glock 18? Really? Pictures please
I think I want a Glock 20SF but I will not buy one until I shoot one. I would like to rent one at a range to see if I like the felt recoil in an autoloader. The 10mm interests me but I am not going to get to involved with getting set up for reloading until I fire one.
Here you go buddy:
Currently not in an area where they have an Automatic weapons firing range.
Quite unfortunate that over there in the US there are so many restrictions on owning and carrying a machine pistols, which are not more lethal then say a 500 SW Magnum hand-canon! That said, for contraptions short of automatic US is the best place to be.
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Seems to me the OP missed the humor in the post...am I the only one who read “Golly”...and immediately saw the 2 guys in the movie ‘Airplane!’ who spoke ‘jive’ and every time they said “Sh*t” it translated in the sub-title as...”Golly” ?
Stevie-Ray
Member
I've been carrying a 10mm since the 80s, in the National Forest. Back then it was a Delta Elite, and the lightest round it ever ingested was a 170 grain HP at 1200fps. It was mostly Silver Tips (175 gr @ 1250fps) back then as they were always available, til I started reloading my own. Eventually I safed the still beautiful Delta, and bought a Glock 29 for the woods. Usually shoot DT 200 gr controlled expansion JHPs out of it. My normal EDC is .45 ACP. I have 3 .45s and 3 9mms. I don't have a .40 at all. I suppose if it ever prices down to 9mm level on it's ammo, I'd try it.
OP
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PWC
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Hmmm.....that's a lot to infer from "golly".
herrwalther
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Pat Riot
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El Godfather, I am envious. That is very cool! Thank you very much.
Sorry for the Hi-Jack guys.
guyfromohio
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Zaydok Allen
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The 10mm offers better velocity with the same size and weight bullets, but can venture up to 220gr also. So you can throw a heavier bullet faster. Aside from price and the mostly crap ammo from factory, there’s no downside there. It’s not that punishing of a round in the right gun. Loading your own is where it really shines, and then you have a very nice woods cartridge.
If you don’t load, don’t encounter animals, or are constrained by ammo price, go with the 40.
what’s the advantage of 357 mag over 38 special, or 454 over 45 Colt? Bullet weight, case capacity, and therefore increased velocity.
If you don’t load, don’t encounter animals, or are constrained by ammo price, go with the 40.
what’s the advantage of 357 mag over 38 special, or 454 over 45 Colt? Bullet weight, case capacity, and therefore increased velocity.
kBob
Member
Well the 10 mm was NOT designed for .45 ACP frames but streached 1911 frames wider from front to back. A lot of people in law enforcement could not handle them worth a darn. I have fairly large hands and I could not get a decent grip on say the Grizzly LAR when it came out. I loved the idea of Springfield's Omega and got to shoot one of the units sent out to gun writers (don't hate me) but again that extra bit of front to rear thickness sort of ruined it for me. The Safety/slide stop spring tube fell off the first Delta Elite we tested with the full house Ammo of the time. Glocks for it are huge, folks.
Scores went down in the FBI before the S&W guns started having safety issues.
For a gun for individuals I suppose the 10 is fine, but for agency use, not so much. The .40 let them have a "9mm" frame and a "bigger" bullet.
Anyone even remember the .41 AE? Same concept. Caliber that starts with .4 in a "9mm" sized gun. It was going to be "THE THING" in defensive pistols. Be honest how many of you under 30 ever heard of it?
I always thought a .38/45 Clarke in a ramped 1911 using cut down 7.62 NATO brass and loaded to .357 Mag velocities would be a neat gun. What you didn't know about that one either?
-kBob
Scores went down in the FBI before the S&W guns started having safety issues.
For a gun for individuals I suppose the 10 is fine, but for agency use, not so much. The .40 let them have a "9mm" frame and a "bigger" bullet.
Anyone even remember the .41 AE? Same concept. Caliber that starts with .4 in a "9mm" sized gun. It was going to be "THE THING" in defensive pistols. Be honest how many of you under 30 ever heard of it?
I always thought a .38/45 Clarke in a ramped 1911 using cut down 7.62 NATO brass and loaded to .357 Mag velocities would be a neat gun. What you didn't know about that one either?
-kBob
kBob
Member
Oh and I have thrown Mk II, M26, M33, and various smoke and chemical grenades and this is not as much fun!
Nothing like "cooking off" a then 30 some odd year old grenade before throwing it! Gets the blood flowing.
I may have been underwhelmed by the 10mm because of earlier experience with the .44 Automag. All that stuff moving and doing things and an explosion right there in your hand!
I have always desired to try a Mars Pistol but no big lotto win yet...
-kBob
Nothing like "cooking off" a then 30 some odd year old grenade before throwing it! Gets the blood flowing.
I may have been underwhelmed by the 10mm because of earlier experience with the .44 Automag. All that stuff moving and doing things and an explosion right there in your hand!
I have always desired to try a Mars Pistol but no big lotto win yet...
-kBob
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