Differences I noticed Between Gen4 G19 and Gen2 G19

[Apocalypse-Now]

I've heard that the extractor should just fall out when there's nothing left holding it in and mine certainly doesn't do that. After removing the entire extractor spring assembly and the firing pin safety parts, I have to pry the extractor out with a punch.

yep, the out of spec ones need to be pried out.

another note, i haven't read a single experience about the 0-4-1 spring that mentioned any issues whatsoever.

once you replace the extractor, and pop in the 0-4-1, i'd bet the farm it'll work flawlessly for you, my friend.

i wouldn't sell and take a loss. yeah it sucks that glock did seemingly no product testing before marketing the gen4 9mm's, and they keep puttin out bad extractors on top of that, but you can resolve all that and have a reliable weapon

a friend on another forum went and sold his gn4 g29 right before i posted about the 0-4-1 spring, and the bad extractors, and took a loss doing so. he wishes he kept it, might buy another.

(also, don't slam the mag so hard like the reaper said. it takes almost no effort to seat a mag properly)

 

[Apocalypse-Now]

Nice that we got a confirmation on the MIM.

my out of spec "dip" extractors didn't have the MIM "sprue". i'll bet you glock is experimenting with different types of production (based on cost, of course). that's why i'm thinking mine were cast. they only have the casting lines....whereas duffman's pics certainly look MIM.

 

[SGT Duffman]

Apocalypse,

When I called them back today they said they were on recoil assembly 04-1-1 or 04-1.1, however they number it, there are two 1's now. I asked him about 04-1 springs because that was the newest iteration I'd heard of, he said they're actually on 04-1 1 now, but they don't have any left and don't know when they'll be getting more. On the mag thing ya, I know, I carried it over from seating full mags with closed slides. Locked slides take nothing, but I still do it anyways. I do far more loading and unloading than mag changes on empties. I suppose I could change that if I shot every day. Old habits...

 

[Apocalypse-Now]

^^it's entirely possible that simply replacing the extractor may very well solve all your issues even without getting the new spring. todd green had nothing but probs with his gen4 g17 model, even after updating the spring. then he swapped out the extractor, and it's run perfect for 5,000 rounds so far

however, i would still request the newest spring from glock (it's free, so why not? lol). i've never heard of 04-1-1. i've seen a few pics of the 0-4-1 though. wonder if they just renamed the part number, or actually came out with a 50th spring update LOL


either way, i say keep that sucker. no sense in taking a loss, especially if you like it, and these options will almost assuredly fix it

 

[SGT Duffman]

I had them send me a new extractor which they're doing, and he put me on the list for a new spring when they come in. They're also supposed to be sending me an email with directions to send the pistol back for work should it be neccessary. I also ordered a Lone Wolf extractor to try out. If nothing else I'll have an extractor to compare to. The Lone Wolf is supposed to be identical to the older gen 3 extractors so it'll be interesting to compare them. I'll take some pics and bust out the callipers and go to work on the lot of them when I get them. Compare the 2 Glocks to each other, then both of them to the Lone Wolf.

I still haven't decided the guns fate yet, that will ultimately depend on what I can do about it's performance. If I can get it running the way it should have run out of the box I may keep it. I haven't decided yet because it's not running that way and I'm not sure yet if I'll be able to trust it. Only time and rounds will tell. Sucks having to fix something that's brand new though. Whole reason I got a 19 is because they're supposed to be the standard for compact 9mm reliability. Yet here we are.

 

[Apocalypse-Now]

I had them send me a new extractor which they're doing

so, they sent you one without making you seek out a cert armorerto order it for you?

you musta gotten the right guy on the phone LOL. happened to me once too with glock. it's about as rare as winning the lottery-you really lucked out


yeah i was pretty annoyed at having to purchase a new extractors for my brand new glocks as well. there's no way that glock doesn't know the extractors are bad. they probably had a zillion of them made, and don't want to trash them. i say that because it must be cheaper to deal with the occasional warranty issue rather than do that. many of the out of spec extractors don't cause reliability issues, just erratic extraction, and people don't call glock about it. same with the recoil springs--many didn't have any probs with the first one.

pretty crappy way of doing business for sure.

 

[SGT Duffman]

It's funny you mention the lotto. I know they don't like giving those things out, so after actually getting them on the phone twice today, after missing a call back from Glock . I bought some lotto tickets. First time for everything I guess. That's why I didn't get into MIM stuff with the guy I got when I returned their call. He was pretty cool with me. Said he'd been working there for like 21 years. Helped me check the extractor and told me about the springs. He had me break it down, then I told him it had the 03 spring before he told me why I was breaking it down. I guess he thought I'm not a complete idiot and can actually remove the 4 parts necessary to replace the extractor. Or maybe I am an idiot and he's waiting for me to void my warranty. Either way I should get an extractor and a recoil spring.

 

[Apocalypse-Now]

now that one time they sent the extractor directly to me for my g19--the glock rep sent the wrong one LOL

he actually sent a 40cal extractor (this was before i bought the g23). i was thankfully able to trade it out for the right one at my buddy's shop. the glock rep said he was also sending an ejector, which never arrived lol

glock is notorious screwing up parts ordering. if you do indeed get the right ones delivered to your home: buy more lottery tickets!! LOL


the rep told me that they literally have one lady that mails out the parts for the entire warranty dept! (and she's probably 110 years old lol)

 

[Apocalypse-Now]

another note, the 40cal extracto is almost identicanl to the 9mm one, and will fit in your g19. the way to tell the difference is the very tip of the claw.

the tip on the 9mm one has parallel edges, where as the 40cal's are slightly angled.

 

[SGT Duffman]

Um.... I don't suppose the .40 is marked with a 1 is it?

 

[SGT Duffman]

We'll see if I win the lottery this time around. If I do I might just buy Glock then I won't have to worry about parts. Then I'll change everything back to the way it used to be and charge raise the price of new pistols $10 to offset the expense of not using substandard MIM parts in the first place. I think it'd be worth $10 to not deal with this, how about you? Come to think of it, I could just save the $10 by ditching the double spring, the gen 4 frame, grip, and mag release modifications can stay, but the recoil spring was unnecessary. So no price change after all, I might even lower the price $10 since the extra machining process of boring out the front of the slide to accomodate the huge recoil assembly will be unecessary. MIM is also unecessary.

 

[SGT Duffman]

Still no e-mail from Glock....

 

[ForumSurfer]

I also talked to them about the slide releasing when a mag is inserted.

My gen4 17, my gen3 19 and my gen4 19 all do that if you slam the mag home with your hand on the heel of the mag. My buddy's gen3 17 does it. He also stated that his old department issue gen2 17 did the same thing, as well.

I never really thought of it as an issue, kind of a bonus to me.

Reaper is right, if you don't do it as hard...the slide doesn't go home. But it does that for me on nearly every reload when I'm pushing myself running drills. Honestly, I like that it does it. The first few times I didn't notice and I ended up racking out a round on reloads, I've since learned to just deal with it. When it works, great...when it doesn't slam home automatically I just rack it with my off hand as usual.

 

[SGT Duffman]

The Lone Wolf extractor came in today. I hit it with the calipers and checked some other things to see how it differs from the factory Glock. There are a couple significant differences, but most of the measurements were the same, but not all of them, and there were some geometry differences. When I get done editing the pictures I'll post link to them.

 

[SGT Duffman]

The Lone Wolf Extractor

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa348/SGTDuffman/LoneWolfExtractor.jpg

Glock Extractor

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa348/SGTDuffman/GlockExtractor.jpg

Glock and Lone Wolf from the loaded chamber side

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa348/SGTDuffman/GlockandLoneWolfExtractors.jpg

Loaded chamber indicator differences

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa348/SGTDuffman/GlockvsLoneWolfExtractor2.jpg

The extractors from the top

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa348/SGTDuffman/GlockvsLoneWolfExtractor3.jpg

The extractors for the bottom

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa348/SGTDuffman/GlockvsLoneWolfExtractor.jpg

Ectractor faces differences 1 and 2

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa348/SGTDuffman/GlockvsLoneWolfExtractor5.jpg

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa348/SGTDuffman/GlockvsLoneWolfExtractor4.jpg

Extractor face geometry differences

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa348/SGTDuffman/ExtractorFaces.jpg

Casting mark comparison between the 2 extractors

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa348/SGTDuffman/CastingMarks.jpg

 

[SGT Duffman]

Differences in taper between Glock and Lone Wolf.

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa348/SGTDuffman/Tapers.jpg

 

[REAPER4206969]

Good pics.

 

[voyager4520]

My G27, test-fired in Aug 09 has the MIM extractor. It cycles reliably and ejects cleanly but it really chews up the rim of the brass compared to that of my G23. The G27 extractor doesn't have that depression in the middle, but it does have in that same spot a little .5mm tall porous silver bump.

 

[SGT Duffman]

Voyager,

My Gen 4 G19 is chewing up the front of the brass.

http://s1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa348/SGTDuffman/?action=view&current=ChewedBrass.jpg

At first I thought it might have just been getting scuffed by hitting the ground, but ALL of the rounds are worn like that, and they're ALL worn the same way. Not a few here or there. It actually flattens the case mouth a bit as well. The only thing I can think is that as the brass is being extractor from the chamber and after the ejector starts pushing it out the side the extractor is holding on to the brass and it's getting drug across the slide a bit or something. If it was a chamber issue I'd expect the scratches to run lengthwise down the case and not side to side like that.

 

[SGT Duffman]

I still haven't heard from Glock CS as far as the Email with return instructions goes. Though I did miss a call from them this morning. So I called them back this morning and left a message for Anthony Burdett to call me back with no such luck. I also have not received the extractor or recoil spring assembly they said they would send. I don't know if maybe they're waiting for the recoil spring to send everything at once, or if they just told me they'd help me so I'd shut up and stop calling them. In any case this whole process is putting a very sour taste in my mouth for Gen 4 Glocks and all Glocks generally. I love my 21, but after having dealt with this, I don't think I would get another Glock. If I can't get this one working to the point where it can regain my trust, I don't know what I'm gonna do.

I'm tempted to get a gen 3 G19 in trade for the Gen 4, but I'm really growing to dislike and even hate Glock, so I don't know. I definitely don't want them getting any more money from me though. They're being made with the same crappy parts now anyways. All I wanted was a reliable compact 9mm with good mag capacity. I will not consider XD pistols, they're disgusting and a mile wide from the top of the slide to the bottom of the rail, they're also larger in every dimension and heavier. S&W and Ruger are also out on moral grounds. I won't support gun makers who support anti second amendment actions or legislation. Unfortunately I learned of Colt's anti 2A after buying it, so it squeaked by. I guess we'll see what happens.

 

[ForumSurfer]

I love my 21, but after having dealt with this, I don't think I would get another Glock.

I know what you mean. My gen4 has been nothing but reliable, but if my experience mirrored yours...I'd likely be an m&p guy. I've been down the XDM path, and I didn't like it.

Bad customer service always forces me to switch brands. I get so irritated playing phone tag that spending time with the product may cause hair loss. I've yet to deal with glock cs, so I'm still a happy customer.

 

[ny32182]

The only thing that really sounds out of place to me is the extractor should move relatively freely in the slide, given the FP safety, etc, are already removed and everything is clean. As you can see the pistol will still function even if it is gummed up. You have a new extractor now; I'd check to see if it moves easier in the slide, and if it does, I'd drop that puppy in and go shooting. Lone Wolf has a good rep; that exractor is likely more than good to go till the new OEM one comes in.

Dropping the slide by seating the magazine is fine; I try to get mine to do it by slamming the mag in; if it works, great, if not, just slingshot. If you don't want it to do it, don't slam the mag.

Most Glocks I've ever seen do that to the brass. I believe it is coming from contacting the edge of the ejection port on the way out, but you'd need a high speed camera to confirm. Either way it is inconsequential. The sizing die irons it out with no problems.

If it were me I'd replace the extractor and then do more shooting and less chatting, in order to discover if it actually works.

 

[SGT Duffman]

The Lone Wolf extractor has been installed, but it hasn't been shot yet. The Lone Wolf drops free and seems to be a lot better made. Gotta find more ammo. Would try it with reloads but I'm hesitant to use any reloads until I think I've got the reliability and extraction issues sorted out. I don't want any variables throwing things off. This is getting to be an expensive experiment. 500rds with nothing really to show for it. It's great to have the practice I guess, but not great if it's all for naught with a gun that may end up leaving the stable. Every change means starting over. I'm still tracking the total round count, but every time I change something, it's clock gets started over. Given all the problems it won't be finding it's way into a holster until it gives me a thousand trouble free rounds. So I'd like to make any changes that are going to be made, then leave it at that, and then start the round count again. Shooting in the interim seems like wasting bullets.

Here's a video of the difference when removing the extractors.

http://s1193.photobucket.com/albums...current=GlockExtractorvsLoneWolfExtractor.mp4

 

[Apocalypse-Now]

i think it'll work flawlessly with the lone extractor, duffman. this has been the case in every thread i've read about people replacing bad glock ones with that LW

My Gen 4 G19 is chewing up the front of the brass.

that's how my brass looks out of my gen4 g23 as well (even after the extractor change). many gen2's and gen3's will do that as well. some do and some don't. i even called glock about it, and they said it's normal.

 

[Smaug]

Then came the G19. The only ammo that has been fired through it is Winchester White Box 115gr FMJ.

As of yesterday the pistol has 438rds through it, all WWB.

Here is the problem. WWB is the most underpowered ammo out there. Glocks are designed to function reliably with most ammo, but especially self defense, police, and military ammo. (which is hotter than WWB) In order for +P+ ammo not to tear up the gun, the spring is probably a little stiff during break-in for cheap range ammo.

Since the first 100 rds I haven't had any more failures

This was my experience with my Gen 3 Glock 34. (competition 9mm model) I was upset at first too, after all, that's why I bought a Glock. It was going to be my all-around centerfire handgun: home defense, competition, target gun... I had no more failures after the first 100 rounds, even with WWB. I had to chalk it up to break-in and cheap ammo.

It is the ammo, not the gun. They are cost-cutting to try to offer the lowest per-box price. Powder charge is one area. Lighter bullets is another.

You have to adjust your expectations to today's cheap ammo, or start reloading your own.