Dillon powder measure bars

K

KY DAN

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Joined
Jan 10, 2019
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857
First off don't talk me out of this, I know what I want lol.

I want powder bars for a dillon style powder measure that have fixed/ interchangeable bushings for certain loads.

I HATE adjustable bars as creeping has always been a issue despite additional wavy washers and carefully monitoring.

My last batch of 1000 45 acp went from 5 grains of bullseye to 6 grains around the 600ish round mark. Still a safe load of lead BUT WAY TOO HOT AND SNAPPY for my tias 1911.

I think I can build these on a milling machine out of brass , if anyone has attempted this before please share the experience
 
jmr40 said:
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If I see something that I like and can get it at a price I like then all the better. I always bring cash and often something to sell or use as trade bait. But I no longer go expecting to come home with anything.
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Bosn Ski said:
Never knew that creep was an issue. I have noticed fluctuations on longer runs and attributed it to low powder in the measure.

Going to keep an eye on creep and this thread. Intuitively, a fixed bushing seems very interesting.
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Creep is a very real thing and unfortunately a "everyone" brand issue.

I have always appreciated star universal powder systems due to their ease of use and accuracy.

I know people will say powder lot to lot variations will cause the need for adjustments..... I have not encountered a unsafe variation to date so I am willing to risk my luck.
 
I'm not completely convinced that "creep" is the issue. Some powders just don't measure well in the Dillon system.

On the other hand, I'm wrong all the time. I hope the OP will keep us posted.
 
I disagree about the creep also but that shouldn't be a reason to hold you back from your project.

I would expect brass to work well for a powder bar. It is soft but should be much harder than any powder so the powder should not be able to deform it when the bar guillotines the little bars of powder in half. Aren't the original bars make out of aluminum?

The rectangular void that measures the powder is rectangular so it can be adjusted. Since the void will be fixed is there a better shape for the void to be? I don't know, just thinking out loud.

I wonder if you could get the same results by adding a set screw to a Dillon powder bar to eliminate the creep? Or some super glue or lock tight to keep the internal bar from moving? Or maybe fill in the unused void with and epoxy so it can't move? Or just drill a hole through the outer powder bar and inner powder then put a pin through them so there should be no way for them to move.

Just some random thought, I would like to hear your results!

Zygodactyl said:
Rather than reinvent the wheel. Couldn't you adjust it to the charge you want and epoxy the standard bar to keep it from moving? You could even use red loctite to prevent the screw from moving.
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I didn't see your post until after I posted but this is pretty much exactly what I was thinking when I read the original post. Great idea! My apologies for restating your post. :)
 
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KY DAN said:
I HATE adjustable bars as creeping has always been an issue despite additional wavy washers and carefully monitoring.
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I’m surprised your measure actually changed that much. Of the 5 Dillon measures I have, none have moved unless I wanted them to. Now the drops will vary slightly while the initial dump of powder in the hopper settles, and it may waver a bit when the level gets low, but not by a grain, only a tenth or two.
Hornady sells a powder insert that is adjustable but once set is locked by a nut and oring. A very cost effective way to have set volumetric throws.

I think you’ve got a great idea for a bushing type adjustment. I would think once you have an idea for how large a volume for a specific powder drop charge, you could 3d print an insert. Maybe you could come up with a lego type arrangement where snapping on or off a block would change it by a little. I’m staying tuned to see what you do.
 
Powder Bar is dillon factory

Powder was Alliant Bullseye

I agree with modifying an existing bar , a old ipsc shooter I meet a while back had drilled and pinned his dillon powder slides on his old RL450.

It's not an original idea just a idea lol
 
Op is not dealing with creep of the powder measure as much as the powder settling, increasing it's bulk density, and thus increases the drop weight. Put an extra baffle in the powder hopper will help more than going to fixed bushings. I have over 50,000 RDS through my xl650 and have never had the adjustment change on it's own.
 
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If your powder bar is changing an entire grain of bullseye, I would certainly stop using it until I figure out the problem.

I put ‘witness marks’ on stuff I set and want to see at a glance, they haven’t moved. The wave washer underneath the bolt head is what keeps it from turning and I don’t use knobs or anything that makes it easy to inadvertently change adjustment once I have it set.

0CABADAA-E161-48EF-A6A4-EF2AB37F616C.jpeg

I have some that have remained at their setting for decades, I don’t adjust bars for my most common loads but I am still too cheap to buy a ton of measures, I just keep bars preset and swap them, like this.



Only time my powder check systems have gone off lately is because of stepped 9mm brass.



If I had one that did move on me, I would probably set it, then remove it and apply a drop of this to the adjustment threads and reinstall once cured.



If I just wanted to build a bar, I’d probably use aluminum, as aluminum bars have worked on Dillon measures for me for over 35 years but I also haven’t seen an entire grain change….you know what, pull your measure off and check to see if the collar sleeve is still in there, mine look like a flanged delrin bushing.

0A1E7C87-64F0-4208-B7ED-EFE13641E4D6.jpeg

I had one fall off when I emptied the measure back into the powder jug and then cycled the measure to get the last bit out, dropping it into the container as well, fished it out with the bent end of a coat hanger. They will do some goofy stuff if it’s not there.

Its what pushes on the funnel/expander, without it, it doesn’t stroke the bar correctly. Pencil tip is on it here.

A25389A9-0C9F-47CB-A3C5-F9B2CFF77D86.jpeg
 
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Creep, or thread backlash, is definitely a thing with the Dillon measures. In my experience it generally shows up as a 0.2 gr. variance (always more powder) as you progress. A full grain would be pretty extreme.

My solution is, once everything settles in and it starts throwing consistently, I don't touch it. I've read that you should only adjust in one direction to minimize the backlash, but I can't remember which way is best.

I just set up my 550 to load .30 carbine recently. Set the measure to throw 14.6 WW296. Measured a few near the end of the batch and they were closer to 14.8. That's still a safe load so I'm going to leave it there.

ETA: To avoid confusion, the "problem" only occurs with the initial setup. Once it settles in, throws will be as consistent as any measure on the market.
 
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Laphroaig said:
Creep, or thread backlash, is definitely a thing with the Dillon measures. In my experience it generally shows up as a 0.2 gr. variance (always more powder) as you progress. A full grain would be pretty extreme.

My solution is, once everything settles in and it starts throwing consistently, I don't touch it. I've read that you should only adjust in one direction to minimize the backlash, but I can't remember which way is best.

I just set up my 550 to load .30 carbine recently. Set the measure to throw 14.6 WW296. Measured a few near the end of the batch and they were closer to 14.8. That's still a safe load so I'm going to leave it there.
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Backlash in the adjustment screw thread is a thing though very minor. With the way that bar works it is best practice to setup and start with a powder change above your desired weight and turn it down to the desired weight. This pushes all the backlash out in the increasing direction so, assuming the screw does not turn, the charge can only get lighter not heavier. The shearing action of the bar as it slide under the powder hopper also pushed the adjuster out keeping this backlash tight in the increasing direction.
 
Are you sure the thrown powder weight variation is not due to powder column height? Pressure of liquids is rho X gravity X Height. While powders are not liquids, they are not exactly solids in terms of pressure. The pressure pushing powder into the bar is directly related to column height in the powder horn.
 
Slamfire said:
Are you sure the thrown powder weight variation is not due to powder column height? Pressure of liquids is rho X gravity X Height. While powders are not liquids, they are not exactly solids in terms of pressure. The pressure pushing powder into the bar is directly related to column height in the powder horn.
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Exactly, this is why powder baffles are a thing. The baffle support that weight of the powder higher up in the hopper and they reduce this pressure at the bottom keep the powder from packing as much. Powder is not a liquid, though in bulk it behaves like it. The baffle take advantage of the fact that it is not a liquid to help alleviate this problem to a great degree.
 
One other thing I find with Bullseye I get more consistent charge drops for pistol cases using Dillon's extra small charge bar compared to the standard small charge bar. Same with a titegroup and a few other high bulk density powders.
 
KY DAN said:
I want powder bars for a dillon style powder measure that have fixed/ interchangeable bushings for certain loads.
.
.
I think I can build these on a milling machine out of brass , if anyone has attempted this before please share the experience
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One solution with Dillon powder bars would be to drill and tap the side of each bar for a small set screw that would “pin” the slide in place and still be adjustable if the need ever arises.
 
My Dillon powder bars don't drift. Small bar with WST powder with dramworx hopper with baffle last session I loaded 200 45acp cartridges and first measured 4.24gr and #s 2,3,4,5,25,50,75,100,125,150,175 and 200 all threw 4.08-4.10gr according to FX120i, no adjustment. First throw of the session always throws 4.2-4.3
 
lordpaxman said:
Now the drops will vary slightly while the initial dump of powder in the hopper settles, and it may waver a bit when the level gets low, but not by a grain, only a tenth or two.
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The powder baffle in the bottom of the powder hopper is there to keep a consistent drop no matter how full the powder hopper is. Stacking theory physics says it should work for this purpose. If you never let the powder get low enough to expose the baffle the downward force (gravity) on the powder above the measure bar should not change.
 
mcb said:
Exactly, this is why powder baffles are a thing. The baffle support that weight of the powder higher up in the hopper and they reduce this pressure at the bottom keep the powder from packing as much. Powder is not a liquid, though in bulk it behaves like it. The baffle take advantage of the fact that it is not a liquid to help alleviate this problem to a great degree.
Click to expand...

I have baffles in all my powder measures, and charge weight still varies by column height.
 
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