Dinner with mom

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kamagong

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I had dinner with my mom last night, and during the meal we had an interesting conversation regarding gun rights and ownership. She asked me who I was going to vote for in next year's election, Obama or Clinton. I told her that I wasn't sure who I was going to vote for, but whoever it is will likely be a Republican. She was surprised, we're a Democratic family, and wanted to know why. I explained to her that I considered gun ownership and the right to bear arms the most important issue, more important than immigration, the economy, Iraq, etc. She wanted to know why.

I explained to her that one of the primary reasons I have a gun is self-defense. I informed her that the police in this country are under no duty to protect individuals, and even if they were, that I am loath to rely on others to preserve my own life. She replied that guns are dangerous. I countered by saying that people are dangerous, guns are merely a tool. "I have guns, are you afraid of me?" I asked her. She said, what kind of a question is that, or course I'm not afraid of you. I explained to her that a gun does not cause any violence, that it is the character of the man holding the gun that she needs to fear. I then made a passing reference to one of my cousins, who sad to say, is criminally inclined. I asked my mom if she thought he had a gun. My mom laughed and said of course he has one. I then asked if she would prefer that people like him and the police were the only people with guns, and that is what happens with gun control laws. I reminded her that the police are under no legal duty to protect individuals. This caused her pause of course. I then told her that I believe in good and evil, right and wrong, and that there are evil people in this world. I refuse to be prey to these predators. I also quoted Col. Cooper who said that "An unarmed man cannot fight evil, he can only flee from it." She nodded in agreement.

My mom then asked me why people should be allowed to own "high-powered" ammunition. I retorted with "why not?" High-powered rifles and ammunition are more effective weapons and they should not be monopolized by the government, despite its arguments to the contrary. Governments are self-serving entities, and those in power are often corrupt. I then made a few references to history, specifically to Nazi Germany and the Marcos-era Philippines. In both circumstances the government disarmed its citizens in its bid to consolidate power. I refuse to be in that situation, relying on wishful thinking and the government's magnanimity for my safety. The private ownership of firearms, whether pistols or military-style rifles, is a safeguard against tyrannical government action. I even made a reference to the movie Blood Diamond where the unarmed villagers were at the mercy of the government and paramilitary thugs. Again my mom nodded in agreement.

My final point to her was that the right to bear arms is a fundamental value and played a role in the formation of this country. The militia was composed of ordinary men, who used their privately owned guns to fight for liberty against the most powerful nation in the world at the time. And that without widespread gun ownership, independence from England likely would not have been possible. Gun ownership is part of the American heritage and it is because of this heritage that Americans remain so fiercely independent and subject to no one.

It was a pretty long conversation. My arguments for the 2nd Amendment could have been better presented, but I wasn't expecting it. Still, I couldn't pass up the opportunity to educated a non-gunnie. I think I got through, my mom called me this morning to tell me that she enjoyed our little talk last night.
 
Congratulations, it sounds like you did very well all things considered. Maybe it's time for a little bonding with Mom at the range if I'm not too bold to suggest. :)
 
Good for you and your Mom. If my Dad wasn't so fanatically (literally assault rifles only kill people) anti-gun I could probably have a talk like this with my parents. I think he blindly trusts government, but I'm not sure why.
 
You did good. Some people just blindly follow what is told to them but when you kindly challenge this it sometimes opens their eyes to a whole new world.
 
Meh. This is the one issue where I'm actually mad at my parents. They try to dodge the issue. Oh well, they believe in it in principle...which is more than some do.
 
Congratulations! Sounds like your Mom is a fair minded individual. You are fortunate, mine is not. Having a similar discussion with mine, you could hear the gates of her mind slam shut just prior to the tossing of talking points and personal assault when the talking points proved to be valueless.

Keep the flame alive, take good care of your Mom, she's alright! :)
 
Congratulations! Sounds like your Mom is a fair minded individual. You are fortunate, mine is not.
I guess it all balances out. My dad is an anti, and I will never convince him of the RKBA. He continually tries to get my mom to talk to me about my "obsession" with guns and knives. My mom shrugs her shoulders. According to her, she did her best to raise independent, thinking individuals. She's not going to interfere with my siblings and I now that we're older and have developed our own values.
 
My mom thinks [poltical name deleted] is the 'smartest woman on the planet' and [political name deleted] is bigger than [name of religious figure deleted]. I feel your pain, brother. Mom doesn't argue guns with her boys but she does argue politics.

My dad brought us up with the outdoors, hunting, et all - but they (mom & dad) grew up during the depression and all I ever hear is about how FDR / [name of political party deleted] 'pulled us out of the dpression'.

If [political name deleted] says he wants to outlaw civilian ownership or take away every gun but at the same time "honors the tradition of hunting" "believes in the second amendment" and "taking away your guns won't affect hunting" then mom believes that hook, line, and sinker.
 
Kamagong, sounds like you may have made some progress. Consider analyzing some of the buzz words during a future conversation. Commonly used descriptors like "high-powered" annoy me. If you destroy that buzz word for your mother by discussing some basics, that buzz word may cease to hold any power over her in the future when anti’s use it. Your argument was good, though.
 
Reminds me of a similar conversation I had with my Mom about 10 years ago. I am from the East coast and have a very liberal mother and brother. Mom came out to visit and we ended up having a conversation about owning guns and carrying one, while at a restaurant. I was sitting there carrying concealed while gently trying to explain to my mother (member of Daughters of the American Revolution) why firearms are not only desirable in the civilian population, but necessary for the preservation of liberty.

She allowed me to buy my first rifle when I was 14, but never really saw why I would want any more, especially not a hand gun. Can't say she has changed her view at all, but at 86 I don't suppose she will now.
 
I simply used this on my mom (who is Anti-). I don't carry for me. If all I ever needed to worry about was myself I would not have a CCW. I could get by fine with a rifle and shotgun. However in the modern depraved world we live in I am a responsible single parent. I am charged with protecting my daughter, and I intend to do just that. She hasn't brought up my guns again.
 
My Mom used to be a bit of an anti, but not so much out of fear, but more out of "trying to do the right thing". When I was growing up she had a pretty strict "no toy guns" policy. Well 26 years, and one EXTREME gun nut later, she realized how well that turned out. :neener:

Luckily she was never an "anti" anti, she just didn't really like them personally. My Dad died when I was 8, and she remarried a Vietnam Vet Marine a few years later. Well, with my constant badering and him backing me up, she full well understands the need (maybe not the desire) for guns. She used to make my step dad keep his guns at his father's house in Arizona, but I think she is actually going to let him buy one soon.

I probably won't ever take her shooting, and she does still feel kind of uncomfortable around them, but I'd say she converted rather well. Good for you on using logic to combat emotion and misdirection. and lucky you that your Mom was receptive. That is the biggest killer when talking with strict antis.
 
Good job, but keep after it. It took my mom and stepdad a decade of my pestering and finally a very uncomfortable situation a long way from nowhere before they recognized the need for firearms and adopted my Ruger Security Six.
 
Sounds like your mom is a reasonable person. I love to have these kinds of conversations, and have had a few myself. What drives me crazy are those who keep saying that the government is fine, and there is no reason to worry, you are just being paranoid. They'll be there for you, etc. They refuse to see, so there is nothing to say. I just try to get them to the range.
 
Ya gotta love the ubiquitous "high powered [assault] rifle" rhetoric.

When is the last time you saw/heard the press report any shooter using a "low powered" or "medium powered" rifle? In fact, where is there any definition of what a "high powered" rifle is, compared to ... ????

Is a .22 short low-powered enough? If so, does that make a .22LR at least medium powered? Once you go there, I suppose a .22 WMR must be the lower limit of "high powered," and anything larger/more powerful than that is so obviously unsafe and unnecessary that they should be banned from the planet.
 
hen is the last time you saw/heard the press report any shooter using a "low powered" or "medium powered" rifle? In fact, where is there any definition of what a "high powered" rifle is, compared to ... ????

To be fair, isn't High Power Rifle an NRA term for a kind of competition? I think - but I do not in fact know - that it includes .308 and .223 calibre rifles. So if the shooter is in fact using one of those, then isn't calling it a High Power Rifle correct?

Mike
 
it is unfortunate

that just belonging to a particular political party so inclines you (overwhelmingly statistically) to be antigun. Especially since that party portends to be "pro-civil liberty".

I really don't understand why this developed. I can only assume that the people pushing the anti agenda actually do understand the reality of it and have other motives - ie: gaining absolute control over the non-elite citizenry of this country.

How else does one explain this?

I am not blind regarding the other national party either - there are antigunners there too - just that they are the minority.

Glad to see that there are reasonable people that are simply lacking information and that when presented with it, come to see the logic.

I hope there are many many more like your Mom out there.
 
If it should come up again, you might consider relaying the following. Fireworks are illegal in the city of Tacoma. There are two times of year that fireworks are popular, New Years and 4th of July. This past Independence Day, I heard the dispatcher notify the police units that per Lieutenant So-and-so they were not going to dispatch officers for fireworks complaints. In other words, there was so much illegal activity that they didn’t have the manpower to respond.

Think about that! If something major happens, say a natural disaster or terrorist attack, and it overwhelms the police force, you will be completely on your own. We saw this in Louisiana during the last hurricane, a pretty major event. But to have the police declare that they don’t have the manpower to respond to citizens calls is very telling. On that same day, while the police were downtown patrolling the city sponsored Independence Day events en masse; a little girl was snatched from the alleyway behind her house where she was playing. The police response was as quick as it could have been, but they wouldn’t find her body for a week or so.

The police cannot be everywhere. People will carry a spare tire so as to be prepared for the minor inconvenience of having a flat tire, yet do absolutely nothing to prepare themselves for a mortal threat to themselves or the loved ones over which they are responsible. That seems pretty idiotic, no?
 
Good job! It's nice talking to fence sitters since they are open to honestly looking at both sides of the argument. Next time talk about the fun aspects of shooting as well and try to get her to the range on a nice day with a small caliber pistol or rifle.
I guess I'm fortunate that both my parents were raised in pro-gun households so I never had to explain the merits of gun ownership.
 
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