Do you really think there is that much advantage to carrying a full sized pistol?

[WrongHanded]

If you had to defend your life with a handgun, is the one you're carrying the same one you'd want to be using?

 

[ATLDave]

If I had to defend my life with a handgun, I'd rather use my limited-division USPSA blaster, but thumb rests and magwells genuinely do pose obstacles to concealed carry!

 

[bangbang01]

If you had to defend your life with a handgun, is the one you're carrying the same one you'd want to be using?

Most soldiers in a firefight on the battlefield would prefer a battle rifle over an assault rifle; however most soldiers would rather hump 10 miles in extreme conditions with an M4 than a than an MK14. It's all about compromise.

To answer your question, if someone had a gun on me or my family, and I had to make that split decision, I would much rather have a 6" GP100 with full house magnum HP ammo than a Ruger LCP, but since I wear business casual, and I'm technically not allowed to carry at work.................

 

[ATLDave]

Not a bad analogy, but not perfect. Setting aside terminal ballistics, the M4 has some other, possibly-offsetting advantages in the firefight, such as lower recoil and perhaps faster handling. There's really not any offsetting advantage to the smaller pistol.

But the gist of your point is correct. The hassle factor is a perfectly relevant consideration.

 

[WrongHanded]

Most soldiers in a firefight on the battlefield would prefer a battle rifle over an assault rifle; however most soldiers would rather hump 10 miles in extreme conditions with an M4 than a than an MK14. It's all about compromise.

To answer your question, if someone had a gun on me or my family, and I had to make that split decision, I would much rather have a 6" GP100 with full house magnum HP ammo than a Ruger LCP, but since I wear business casual, and I'm technically not allowed to carry at work.................

There are absolutely compromises to be made. In your case, concealment sounds like the major concern in the workplace. But when dressing around the gun is more of an option, I can understand why some choose a full size pistol.

The point of carrying a gun is to defend myself and others. I want a gun with me. But that gun needs to be as effective as possible, in my hands. So whilst concealment and comfort of carry are factors, I won't carry an LCR when I can carry a GP100.

 

[strangelittleman]

There's been a couple of topics recently that covered small concealable handgun choices and the one thing that popped out to me were the number of choices out there that actually handle like full-size service pistols.

In the past, concealable compact autos and snub revolvers that fired full power service rounds ( ie; 9mm, .38Spl and up), were quite a bit more difficult to shoot accurately than a full-size handgun when loaded with serious defensive ammo, the recoil, combined with rather bad ergos and the traditional, poorly designed small sights further hampered one's ability to manipulate the weapon effectively.......
In the past, many noted Instructors have stated one should only carry a full-size handgun for defense and I have always thought the same.

But, in the last decade and a half , I think there have been some real improvements in small pistol design that have greatly expanded the performance envelope of the compact and sub-compact pistol and revolver.

I believe one of the best early examples of this new generation of "high performance compacts", was the Star M43 FireStar 9mm. The FireStar came along circa 1990 and was a small, all-steel, SAO locked -n-cocked 7 shot auto ( w/ a 3.4"bbl) that had reversed slide to frame fit much like Star's M28 & M30 and the CZ75. It was /is a wonder of engineering.
This was the first sub-compact auto that made me think, "This little gun really can punch above it's weight class!"

The next time I had the same thought was after firing my older brother's 2.25" 9mm Ruger SP101 revolver. That little BUG shot like a K-38 target revolver! Low recoil due to well designed grips, great sight picture, solid frame made for a small BUG that would give it's owner the same confidence of a 4" service revolver.

Since then, the excellent line of Khar products have come along and helped to define this new class of "go anywhere concealed, with full confidence" guns as have the "Baby Glocks G26-36", particularly my favorite of the Baby Gs, the G29 & 30.

In just the past few years, this class has really come into it's own, just look at the examples:
Springfield EMP
Walther PPS & CCP
S&W M&P compact series & Shield.
Ruger SR9C & LC9 (s)
SIG 239, 290 & the new 224
S&W Night Guard series of revolvers
Ruger SP101 series & LCR/LCM, and Wiley Clapp GP100
Berreta PX4 subcompact & new NANO.
Glock 42, 43
And a few others I know I've forgotten....

I've always been something of a throw-back traditionalist and when it comes to CCW, only full-sized service pistols would do, the smallest auto I would even consider carrying was the Browning Hi-power, CZP01 or Walther P5 and when it came to revolvers my size cut-off stopped at the 4" S&W K-frame......but then I had to go and mess it all up............

Back in 2009, I saw the S&W Night Guard series and just had to have a 386 light-weight scandium framed 7 shot snub .This gun, once and for all, made me a believer in little guns that can consistently punch way above their weight class.

This "high performance compact" revolver has been my steady off-duty (now retired) companion for 8 yrs now and I really don't think I'll ever go back to carrying a full-sized handgun off-duty on a regular basis, only on occasion do I carry a full-size sidearm.

You owe it to yourself to take a serious look at a "high performance compact" auto or revolver. I believe it really does give the best of both worlds.

 

[bangbang01]

Not a bad analogy, but not perfect. Setting aside terminal ballistics, the M4 has some other, possibly-offsetting advantages in the firefight, such as lower recoil and perhaps faster handling. There's really not any offsetting advantage to the smaller pistol.

But the gist of your point is correct. The hassle factor is a perfectly relevant consideration.

The element of surprise. Not only does nobody know if you're carrying, but a lot of people will suspect you're not carrying. If someone is threatening you of others with a firearm they're probably going to be far more likely to see a guy wearing a big Hawaiian shirt or a fanny pack as someone that is possibly armed than some guy wearing a pair of shorts and a form fitting T-shirt.

 

[CDW4ME]

If you had to defend your life with a handgun, is the one you're carrying the same one you'd want to be using?

This , assuming pistol selection not limited by work attire.
If work / work clothes only allows a pocket 380 then that is the best one can do.
However, when one can dress as they please it becomes what they are willing to do.

I disdain having to tuck in my shirt, so when not at work dressing to conceal a full size pistol is not a problem.
All summer, even with 100+ heat index, I carried (concealed) a 1911 very easily wearing a untucked polo and shorts.
Running errands, shopping, church, ect... I even wore the "big" pistol on casual 9 mile bicycle rides.
For summer, change the t-shirt in pic to "wife beater" (A frame undershirt) + loose fitting untucked cover shirt (polo / floral print, ect...) 1911 disappears.

 

[ATLDave]

But, in the last decade and a half , I think there have been some real improvements in small pistol design that have greatly expanded the performance envelope of the compact and sub-compact pistol and revolver..

True. But it remains fairly clear that none of those quite match the performance of a larger gun.

All you have to do is watch new shooters come into/through USPSA or other "practical" shooting disciplines with compact pistols... and then watch how much better they shoot a few weeks later when they cave in and bring a Glock 17/34 instead of their 19, for instance. Will that ever matter in a real fight? No, but most of us will never be in a real fight anyway.

 

[bangbang01]

There's been a couple of topics recently that covered small concealable handgun choices and the one thing that popped out to me were the number of choices out there that actually handle like full-size service pistols.

In the past, concealable compact autos and snub revolvers that fired full power service rounds ( ie; 9mm, .38Spl and up), were quite a bit more difficult to shoot accurately than a full-size handgun when loaded with serious defensive ammo, the recoil, combined with rather bad ergos and the traditional, poorly designed small sights further hampered one's ability to manipulate the weapon effectively.......
In the past, many noted Instructors have stated one should only carry a full-size handgun for defense and I have always thought the same.

But, in the last decade and a half , I think there have been some real improvements in small pistol design that have greatly expanded the performance envelope of the compact and sub-compact pistol and revolver.

I believe one of the best early examples of this new generation of "high performance compacts", was the Star M43 FireStar 9mm. The FireStar came along circa 1990 and was a small, all-steel, SAO locked -n-cocked 7 shot auto ( w/ a 3.4"bbl) that had reversed slide to frame fit much like Star's M28 & M30 and the CZ75. It was /is a wonder of engineering.
This was the first sub-compact auto that made me think, "This little gun really can punch above it's weight class!"

The next time I had the same thought was after firing my older brother's 2.25" 9mm Ruger SP101 revolver. That little BUG shot like a K-38 target revolver! Low recoil due to well designed grips, great sight picture, solid frame made for a small BUG that would give it's owner the same confidence of a 4" service revolver.

Since then, the excellent line of Khar products have come along and helped to define this new class of "go anywhere concealed, with full confidence" guns as have the "Baby Glocks G26-36", particularly my favorite of the Baby Gs, the G29 & 30.

In just the past few years, this class has really come into it's own, just look at the examples:
Springfield EMP
Walther PPS & CCP
S&W M&P compact series & Shield.
Ruger SR9C & LC9 (s)
SIG 239, 290 & the new 224
S&W Night Guard series of revolvers
Ruger SP101 series & LCR/LCM, and Wiley Clapp GP100
Berreta PX4 subcompact & new NANO.
Glock 42, 43
And a few others I know I've forgotten....

I've always been something of a throw-back traditionalist and when it comes to CCW, only full-sized service pistols would do, the smallest auto I would even consider carrying was the Browning Hi-power, CZP01 or Walther P5 and when it came to revolvers my size cut-off stopped at the 4" S&W K-frame......but then I had to go and mess it all up............

Back in 2009, I saw the S&W Night Guard series and just had to have a 386 light-weight scandium framed 7 shot snub .This gun, once and for all, made me a believer in little guns that can consistently punch way above their weight class.

This "high performance compact" revolver has been my steady off-duty (now retired) companion for 8 yrs now and I really don't think I'll ever go back to carrying a full-sized handgun off-duty on a regular basis, only on occasion do I carry a full-size sidearm.

You owe it to yourself to take a serious look at a "high performance compact" auto or revolver. I believe it really does give the best of both worlds.

My wife carries a Glock 42, and it's actually pretty darn accurate for what it is. She has a flush fitting 7 round magazine which gives her 7+1, and being that it's far more stout than other polly 380's it can be loaded with high pressure ammo that get's it pretty close to 9mm range. We purchased some Underwood +p 380 Gold dots that are not far behind the critical deference 9mm I load in my Keltec pf9.

And yes, I am well aware there is no such thing as actual +p 380.

 

[ATLDave]

The element of surprise. Not only does nobody know if you're carrying, but a lot of people will suspect you're not carrying. If someone is threatening you of others with a firearm they're probably going to be far more likely to see a guy wearing a big Hawaiian shirt or a fanny pack as someone that is possibly armed than some guy wearing a pair of shorts and a form fitting T-shirt.

I think the vast majority of people are oblivious to anything other than open carry. Among those who are trying to pay attention for predation purposes, far better for them to suspect that you are carrying.

 

[bangbang01]

This , assuming pistol selection not limited by work attire.
If work / work clothes only allows a pocket 380 then that is the best one can do.
However, when one can dress as they please it becomes what they are willing to do.

I disdain having to tuck in my shirt, so when not at work dressing to conceal a full size pistol is not a problem.
All summer, even with 100+ heat index, I carried (concealed) a 1911 very easily wearing a untucked polo and shorts.
Running errands, shopping, church, ect... I even wore the "big" pistol on casual 9 mile bicycle rides.
For summer, change the t-shirt in pic to "wife beater" (A frame undershirt) + loose fitting untucked cover shirt (polo / floral print, ect...) 1911 disappears.
View attachment 771324

To each his own, but that just looks super uncomfortable.

 

[bangbang01]

I think the vast majority of people are oblivious to anything other than open carry. Among those who are trying to pay attention for predation purposes, far better for them to suspect that you are carrying.

That's a double edged knife IMO

I have a friend of a friend that got knocked cold and had his gun stolen from him after his stupid GF bragged to some people she worked with that he packed heat. Long story short, these two thugs at a new years party in 2000 laid him out on the back porch of this house while he was smoking a cigarette and stole a stainless Beretta 92 from him after hearing that he was carrying it. Granted, only a complete idiot gets drunk while carrying a gun or doesn't leave a party when shady people start to show up, and his stupid GF and her big mouth didn't do him any favors, but it just goes to show that there are stupid crazy people out there that aren't as afraid of guns as your typical rational human being.

A bonus to this story is that one of the guys that jumped him is serving life for rape and kidnapping.

 

[ATLDave]

I think you should carry an antique pepperbox derringer in your undies. Imagine the surprise they will feel when you grope yourself and come up with that!

 

[Klint Beastwood]

I feel this post has been answered. See my first post.
It’s really in your eyes if you see it as an advantage.
If you are are in the military and think it’s a rank game, then get out of the regular infantry or stop being a pog.
If you are thinking muzzle velocity, weight and recoil doesn’t help control follow up shots, mag capacity mattering, the ability to have a longer sight radius, etc is not an advantage than that’s your opinion. If it’s not enough for you to think it’s THAT much of a difference to matter, well than that’s you opinion. No big deal. Most people here aren’t assualting the hill tops in any case so it doesn’t really matter.
Now if you only carry a gun in a way off ccw then yes, a small gun has an advantage. However that was not actually question.
The question vague and general in nature asking...again...in general if there was an advantage to having a full size vs a more compact size. The answer is subjectively yes.

 

[ATLDave]

The question vague and general in nature asking...again...in general if there was an advantage to having a full size vs a more compact size. The answer is subjectively yes.

Actually, the answer to that question is objectively yes, as a little time with a shot timer would reveal.

The much more individualized and somewhat subjective question is whether that advantage is worth the "cost" of obtaining it.

 

[Klint Beastwood]

Actually, the answer to that question is objectively yes, as a little time with a shot timer would reveal.

The much more individualized and somewhat subjective question is whether that advantage is worth the "cost" of obtaining it.

I can get behind that. I try to be partial to those who have off the wall situations I suppose. Part of the game with Internet crowds if you will.

 

[Kleanbore]

Let me start of by saying that I absolutely believe there is a HUGE advantaged to carrying a full sized service pistol if you work in LE or basically any field that requires one to carry a gun for a living.

With that being said, is there really that much of an advantage to carrying a full size 1911 or Glock 17 over something like a S&W shield or a little snubby 38 for 99% of the scenarios that a regular private citizen might encounter.

A police officer may lawfully use or threaten deadly force (1) to defend himself or herself, when it is immediately necessary to do so, against the imminent use of deadly force by someone else, or (2) under some circumstances to prevent the exam of a "dangerous person whan there is no other way.

A private citizen may lawfully use or threaten deadly force (1) to defend himself or herself, when it is immediately necessary to do so, against the imminent use of deadly force by someone else.

The circumstances under which the necessity arises may differ. Th sworn officer does not have the luxury of avoiding situations.

Once the need to use daily force arises, however, there is no reason to expect that the needs of the officer will differ from those of the citizen.

While anything is possible, the odds that one would ever need anything more than 5 rounds in a capable caliber are literally less than dying from getting hit in the head with a coconut or being struck by lightning.

Do you have any basis at all for that assertion?

When looking at most gun confrontations that take place the average is right around 3 yards, 3 rounds, and 3 seconds according to the so called experts.

Often repeated, never substantiated, and completely incredible unless the target is always stationary.

 

[bnolsen]

if you open carry, absolutely carry a full sized pistol. Otherwise its just easier to be able to make a smaller pistol work in a concealed situation and work *comfortabley*. Now I *do* have a glock 20 that I can conceal, but I have the right holster with the right cant in the right place that fits my body type, doesn't dig into my leg, lets me have fairly free motion and doesn't print like crazy when I bend over. Too bad a spare mag prints like mad, I really should just order a horizontal mag carrier. I choose to carry my hk usp 40 compact as I feel it has a good balance of size, power and capacity.

 

[MikeInOr]

The first thing every self defence class I have ever heard of teaches is "Don't act like a victim". I firmly believe that, at least for me, carrying a concealed firearm allows me to walk down the street with more confidence. As a citizen the only reason my concealed weapon will ever see the light of day is if my life or the life of my loved ones is in direct danger. If I am walking somewhere that I feel uneasy my hand is in my front pocket wrapped around my LCP or CM9 ready to be drawn. I can not keep a 1911 in my front pocket and I can't walk around with my jacket and shirt pulled up and my hand on said 1911 and be anything near inconspicuous when I feel uneasy. So for me a smaller easier to conceal easier to access weapon is a better choice. Because I feel more comfortable with a smaller easy to access gun I am going to project more confidence and be less likely to attract the attention of the population looking for a victim to pray on.

If I were open carrying I would choose a bigger gun. In both my car and my truck I have easy access to a bigger gun. For walking around town a smaller weapon is a better choice for me.

As for the people that claim to conceal carry a 1911 and 4 extra magazines everyday, everywhere they go I really question if they do actually have a gun on them at all times? I know if my carry piece was that big and heavy I wouldn't have it on me at all times.

But it is up to each person to decide what works for them and not the responsibility of all the nameless people on the internet to tell me what and how I should be carrying!

P.S. I had a dentist appointment this morning. I had my exam and teeth cleaning performed with my LCP in my front pocket. Do people really have a full sized 1911 on them when they are tilted back in a dentist chair having their teeth worked on or cleaned?

 

[Old Dog]

I could provide an affirmative answer to the OP's question based solely on my daily casual perusal of my region's daily news ... typically, and especially when our young gang-bangers are involved in shooting situations, there are almost always well over three shots fired. I don't carry a firearms based on the most likely bad situation I could encounter; I carry based on the most likely worst-case scenario.

Our local patrol officers who confiscate firearms from our local bad characters subsequent to a crime or incident of unlawful carry find a lot more full-size handguns than mouseguns. The Glock 19, for whatever reason, certainly has found favor with a lot of criminals in my area.

My feeling has always been that if one cannot find a reasonably concealable and effective way to carry a full-size handgun (and I consider examples such as Glock 19s, SIG P-229s, etc., to be full-sized), one is simply not trying hard enough. While this may mean one cannot continue a lifestyle of being a slave to the current cutting edge of urban fashion, one should be able to figure this out ...

Still trying to figure out why one would not understand that there's a significant advantage to carrying a full-size handgun.

 

[Old Dog]

P.S. I had a dentist appointment this morning. I had my exam and teeth cleaning performed with my LCP in my front pocket. Do people really have a full sized 1911 on them when they are tilted back in a dentist chair having their teeth worked on or cleaned?

No. I had on a SIG-P229 Legion during my dental appointment last Friday ...

 

[Kleanbore]

Otherwise its just easier to be able to make a smaller pistol work in a concealed situation and work *comfortabley*.

The key question is, how well will it "work" when it actually has to be used?

Grip size, balance, sight radius, the handling of recoil, and the relationship between the trigger pull weight and the weight of the gun give the advantage to the larger gun of over the smaller one.

How large? Depends upon what works for the individual. I carry a Ruger American Compact. The full size version would likely serve me better in an emergency, but carrying concealed always involves some compromises

 

[MikeInOr]

No. I had on a SIG-P229 Legion during my dental appointment last Friday ...

How were you concealing your P229 so it wasn't obvious to the dentist and hygenist?

 

[Danoobie]

Not a bad analogy, but not perfect. Setting aside terminal ballistics, the M4 has some other, possibly-offsetting advantages in the firefight, such as lower recoil and perhaps faster handling. There's really not any offsetting advantage to the smaller pistol.

But the gist of your point is correct. The hassle factor is a perfectly relevant consideration.

IMO, there's a new "hassle factor" emerging. That's SJWs, who, if they notice your CC pistol, may try anything. I used to carry full size in public. I
fully believe there is a distinct advantage to having a full-size pistol. But I've scaled back, and increased the conceal, specifically to make it
very hard to detect, and nearly impossible for others to access. CC in public is nice, but I now save the full-size for where the real danger lies: at home.
Here, one is all by oneself, and if you are lucky enough to be able to summon help, well, the LAST time I called the sheriff, they took nearly an
hour to show up, as they were on the other side of town. How much better might they do in an emergency?