Does dry fire practice really help?

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helitack32f1

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I have contemplated this question for awhile now and figured I would ask it here. So, here's the deal, I am probably one of the most deadly accurate dry-fire pistoleros on the planet. In the evening as I sit and watch TV, I inevitably have a Glock 17 in hand and dry fire throughout the evening. As for real shooting, I maybe fire one real round of ammo for every 500 dry fire "rounds".

When it comes time to actually have a bang result from a pull of the trigger, I just do not see any advantage to dry firing. It seems to me that the fact that dry-firing is not accompanied by a brief, loud moment of violence is an almost insurmountable obstacle to any real improvement because the very real and loud violent result of every trigger pull shocks the system to the point that all is forgotten.

Once the real shooting begins it seems as though the awesome trigger control I have worked so long and hard on goes out the window, replaced by flinching and trigger jerking and I am wondering if that is because there really is no similarity between dry fire and real, costly ammo usage?
 
If you can pull the trigger while dry firing and not have the sights move from your trigger pull, you can do the same thing with a round loaded on the range. Try doing some dry fire at the range. Also you can load snap caps and live rounds mixed together in a mag with your eyes closed and then when you shoot on the range you will be able to trick yourself into thinking the gun wont fire when you pull the trigger.
If the noise is the main issue then i would suggest doubling up on ear pro to minimize the shock
 
Dry firing is tedious, for sure. Watch Game of Thrones and 'kill' all of the evil characters, starting with Joeffrey. Puts a bit more entertainment into the exercise.

In a real defense scenario, I agree that all of those dry fire sessions will amount to squat. It is other training/experience that will kick in when those things happen.
 
It helps to keep your trigger pull consistent and helps overcome (me, anyway) the flinch or mistakenly trying to compensate for a lift, twist, or expecting the recoil.
That goes hand-in-hand with live fire later.

As for adrenaline-fueled defensive shooting, not so much. But it could improve your range shooting, which in turn could improve your defensive shooting.
 
As we practice & plan so we do in real life. Dry fire is just that. And we should all do a ''walk through'' of all places, in our homes. Such as, scenario; if a bad guy comes into the house through the garage and we're in the bedroom, I will do ''XX XXXXX, and XXX".

Go through your house in live fire mode just once & get back with us, let us know how that works. Or not.
 
If done properly dry firing definitely helps. But do it wrong and you are training your body to repeat bad form when live firing. Olympic shooters do it. I doubt they would do it if it wasn't effective.

But why stop at dry firing? Are you practicing your draw stroke with a cold gun? Are you practicing mag changes and malfunction drills with a cold gun? If no, why not?
 
Plan2Live said:
If done properly dry firing definitely helps. But do it wrong and you are training your body to repeat bad form when live firing.

+1. To get any benefit, you've got to practice quality dry fire. Mindlessly dryfiring in front of the TV isn't going to do you much good.

helitack32f1 said:
Once the real shooting begins it seems as though the awesome trigger control I have worked so long and hard on goes out the window, replaced by flinching and trigger jerking and I am wondering if that is because there really is no similarity between dry fire and real

There seems to be more difference between real and dry fire than there really is because you're distracted by the bang, flash and recoil. The execution of a shot is the same, whether there's a live round in the chamber or not. Recognize the bang, flash & recoil as a distraction, and don't get distracted.

Also, dry fire goes well beyond trigger control. There are countless drills to work on your draw, reloads, movement, etc, to the point where it becomes something you don't have to think about at the range.
 
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Consistent with what others have said, to be useful dry practice needs to be real practice, not just repeatedly pressing on the trigger.

Practice doesn't make perfect. Only perfect practice makes perfect. If you want to accomplish something with your dry practice, you'll want to concentrate on what you're doing and do it in a serious, disciplined way. Five minutes of disciplined dry practice a few times a week will be more beneficial than hours of daily clicking the gun at the TV.

And it has happened that folks starting to engage in dry practice have been wrong about their guns not being loaded. So it's a good idea to remember (1) "All guns are always loaded"; and (2) "Never let the muzzle cover anything you're not willing to destroy."
 
I'm a big fan/believer in dryfiring, it really does help.

Add a LaserLyte cartridge (or similar) and you've now got instant feedback. Really helped with my 1st shot times/accuracy when combined with a timer with a par-time. Add a flashlight, and you're now working low-light presentations. I use this combination to work room clearing etc.

Literally, for the 1st shot other than recoil it's close to the real thing.

Also, once the cartridge is inserted in your chamber, there's no way for a live round to find it's way in.

Chuck
 
Great video klausman! From a guy who gets paid to shoot and doesn't have to pay for ammo...he still does 100 dry fire shots to every one live! He also mention "proper" dry fire and quality.
 
If the right dry-fire practice method is used, it is definitely beneficial.

I started with a D.A. revolver. I put a coin on the barrel & practiced until I could pull the trigger D.A. quickly without the coin falling off. Then I practiced it on a target on the wall with the coin. It doesn't have to be a real target; even a blank piece of paper or business card will do.

It definitely cements the "Straight Back Smooth Trigger Squeeze" into your brain & you'll notice better accuracy at the range. It helps you isolate your trigger finger from the other fingers. It also strengthens your trigger finger - which is necessary even on a gun with a light trigger. The less effort you require to pull the trigger, the more steady your hold will be.

It really doesn't take hundreds of dry fires; 10 or 20 minutes/day is sufficient.
 
Dry fire sessions should have a goal, you don't just sit in the chair watching TV and shooting, that's entertaining but it's not true dry firing. You need to make a conscious decision about what you want to accomplish;

Are you working on sight alignment today?
Are you working on trigger control?
Are you working on drawing the weapon?
Are you working on returning the weapon to the holster?
How long can you hold the weapon on target without shaking?

There are a lot of things that you can work on. Eventually you need to do dry fire drills creating scenarios that you might expect in the real world. Sitting in the chair and dry firing at the actors on TV is only teaching your muscles and mind to react to an attack by your TV.
 
helitack32f1 said:
Once the real shooting begins it seems as though the awesome trigger control I have worked so long and hard on goes out the window, replaced by flinching and trigger jerking and I am wondering if that is because there really is no similarity between dry fire and real, costly ammo usage?
Actually if you just analyze what you've just posted, you can see that there is no connection between the lack of "bang" and your deterioration of trigger control during live fire.

If you are indeed practicing correct trigger management technique, the noise and recoil of a live round going off can have no effect on your flinching or jerking...because the sound of the shot occurs after the trigger breaks.

If what you have practiced disappears when shooting live rounds, it is more about mental management of expectations than trigger management technique
 
I am strongly in favor of dry fire for training because I believe the secret to accuate shooting is "keep the sights lined up and squeeze the trigger" and dry firing provides a lot of help in doing that.

But, I don't like the idea of dry firing at people on TV for two reasons: 1) I don't generally like shooting, even simulated, at people, and 2) if somehow a live round does get fired, the result will be expensive.

Jim
 
Exactly what MrBorland, Justin, and Frank Ettin just summed up, you must be conscious of what you are doing without any distractions (TV Off wife and kids in bed) Make certain your firearm is unloaded and the ammo is in another room. Then check to make sure the firearm is unloaded at least another time. Then assume a proper stance and grip, get a proper sight picture, then insert your trigger finger into the trigger guard, and squeeze that trigger directly back. Note I've placed a dime on top of the back strap just before I prepared get in to my stance and grip and got a sight picture; if the dime falls from the gun when the trigger if pulled you're doing something wrong.

Once at a range you might have a friend load your weapon with some live rounds and some dummy rounds and see if you can't find out what you're doing wrong. In other words if you're anticipating recoil, which sounds to me is basically what your experiencing, that is something you are going to have to overcome to become a proficient marksman. I could go on and on but I believe that dry firing definitely improves marksmanship immensely.
 
Actually if you just analyze what you've just posted, you can see that there is no connection between the lack of "bang" and your deterioration of trigger control during live fire.

If you are indeed practicing correct trigger management technique, the noise and recoil of a live round going off can have no effect on your flinching or jerking...because the sound of the shot occurs after the trigger breaks.

If what you have practiced disappears when shooting live rounds, it is more about mental management of expectations than trigger management technique

This is not entirely true. It is true on the first shot but after that, your body realizes that the next time you pull that trigger, it will bang and recoil and therefore will anticipate that upon the next squeeze, and it is likely that if one has shot before, they will already be tensing up in preparation for the soon-to-come violence even on the first shot.

My thought on all this is that the environment of actually shooting the gun is so different from the dry firing experience that it is possible that dry firing is of little help when it comes to the real thing. There is so much that is different. Not only is there the anticipation of recoil and anticipation of loud noise and how your body reacts and prepares for that, there is slide movement, recovery from the vertical movement of the front of the gun, recovery from the rearward impulse of the recoil, there is the pressure and possible discomfort of trigger finger on the trigger from the recoil. And possibly other things.

As for those of you that have mentioned the quality of dry firing, and the other things and scenarios that should be practiced as well, I realize that those thoughts are true but this discussion was simply just focused essentially on the ability to improve ones trigger pull through dry firing.

Having said all of that, your last paragraph sums it up perfectly. Maybe the answer is, one must combine dry fire with figuring out how to deal with the mental management of expectations.


Of interesting note is that, as I was contemplating this question the other day, I saw someone has introduced a dry fire simulator that recoils!
 
This is not entirely true. It is true on the first shot but after that, your body realizes that the next time you pull that trigger, it will bang and recoil and therefore will anticipate that upon the next squeeze, and it is likely that if one has shot before, they will already be tensing up in preparation for the soon-to-come violence even on the first shot.
<snip>
Having said all of that, your last paragraph sums it up perfectly. Maybe the answer is, one must combine dry fire with figuring out how to deal with the mental management of expectations.

To paraphrase Gordon Liddy, the trick is not *minding* that it's about to make a hellacious bang. Easier said than done, but it can be done.

Maybe Pavlovian conditioning could train us to enjoy the noise: after each shot, have your girlfriend pop a chocolate chip into your mouth. ;) Someone should do this experiment.
 
helitack32f1 said:
This is not entirely true. It is true on the first shot but after that, your body realizes that the next time you pull that trigger, it will bang and recoil and therefore will anticipate that upon the next squeeze, and it is likely that if one has shot before, they will already be tensing up in preparation for the soon-to-come violence even on the first shot.
Actually it is completely true. Each shot is a separate process, the error is in thinking of them as a continuous one.

None of what you have written is anything but management of expectation...especially since you've then added:
this discussion was simply just focused essentially on the ability to improve ones trigger pull through dry firing.

...but then you add this:
My thought on all this is that the environment of actually shooting the gun is so different from the dry firing experience that it is possible that dry firing is of little help when it comes to the real thing. There is so much that is different. Not only is there the anticipation of recoil and anticipation of loud noise and how your body reacts and prepares for that, there is slide movement, recovery from the vertical movement of the front of the gun, recovery from the rearward impulse of the recoil, there is the pressure and possible discomfort of trigger finger on the trigger from the recoil. And possibly other things.

Dry Firing is the key to trigger management, and trigger management is the key to accuracy...whether done slowly or at speed. There is no difference between trigger management in dry fire or live fire.

Anticipation is a mental failing that you need to learn not to give in to. Everything else you've mention falls under recoil management and is simply a matter of grip and arm geometry.

Without having ever seen you shoot, but just reading your description of your experience, I would venture a guess that you overgrip your gun and utilize isometric tension.

A dry fire simulator that recoils won't solve your jerking issue. That is meant to address splits between trigger presses and trigger reset in parallel issues
 
helitack32f1 said:
...My thought on all this is that the environment of actually shooting the gun is so different from the dry firing experience that it is possible that dry firing is of little help when it comes to the real thing. There is so much that is different. Not only is there the anticipation of recoil and anticipation of loud noise and how your body reacts and prepares for that, there is slide movement, recovery from the vertical movement of the front of the gun, recovery from the rearward impulse of the recoil, there is the pressure and possible discomfort of trigger finger on the trigger from the recoil....
Part of learning to shoot well is putting all of that out of your mind. None of that is that bad.

Shooting well involves both physical and mental control. Dry practice, properly done, can help develop and make habitual the physical skills. It can also help lay a foundation for the mental side.

Focus on the front sight. Concentrate on the front sight and pressing the trigger straight back smoothly with only the trigger finger moving while maintaining a hard focus on the front sight. Press the trigger by gradually increasing the pressure on the trigger. Ultimately the gun will fire, but you won't know exactly when. That's what Jeff Cooper called the surprise break. By keeping focus on the front sight and increasing pressure on the trigger until the gun essentially shoots itself, you don’t anticipate the shot breaking.

Many people are uncomfortable with the idea of the gun firing "by surprise." They feel that when using the gun for practical applications, e. g., hunting or self defense, they need to be able to make the gun fire right now. But if you try to make the gun fire right now, you will almost certainly jerk the trigger thus jerking the gun off target and missing your shot; or you will anticipate the shot breaking and flinch. That's where the "compressed surprise break" comes in.

As you practice (perfectly) and develop the facility to reflexively (without conscious thought) apply a smooth, continuously increasing pressure to the trigger the time interval between beginning to press and the shot breaking gets progressively shorter until it become indistinguishable from being instantaneous. In other words, that period of uncertainty during which the shot might break, but you don't know exactly when, becomes vanishingly short. And that is the compressed surprise break.

Here's an interesting video in which Jeff Cooper explains the compressed surprise break. While he is demonstrating with a handgun, the same principles apply with a rifle.

It may help to understand the way humans learn a physical skill. In learning a physical skill, we all go through a four step process:

  • unconscious incompetence, we can't do something and we don't even know how to do it;

  • conscious incompetence, we can't physically do something even though we know in our mind how to do it;

  • conscious competence, we know how to do something but can only do it right if we concentrate on doing it properly; and

  • unconscious competence, at this final stage we know how to do something and can do it reflexively (as second nature) on demand without having to think about it.

To get to the third stage, you need to think through the physical task consciously in order to do it perfectly. You need to start slow; one must walk before he can run. The key here is going slow so that you can perform each repetition properly and smoothly. Don't try to be fast. Try to be smooth. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast. You are trying to program your body to perform each of the components of the task properly and efficiently. As the programing takes, you get smoother; and as you get smoother you get more efficient and more sure, and therefore, faster.

I have in fact seen this over and over, both in the classes I've been in and with students that I've helped train. Start slow, consciously doing the physical act smoothly. You start to get smooth, and as you get smooth your pace will start to pick up. And about now, you will have reached the stage of conscious competence. You can do something properly and well as long as you think about it.

To go from conscious competence to the final stage, unconscious competence, is usually thought to take around 5,000 good repetitions. The good news is that dry practice will count. The bad news is that poor repetitions don't count and can set you back. You need to work at this to get good.
 
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9mmepiphany said:
...Dry Firing is the key to trigger management, and trigger management is the key to accuracy...whether done slowly or at speed. There is no difference between trigger management in dry fire or live fire.

Anticipation is a mental failing that you need to learn not to give in to. Everything else you've mention falls under recoil management and is simply a matter of grip and arm geometry.....

I'd like to just mention that a few years ago I was lucky enough to have a lesson from 9mmepiphany. He's a fine teacher and knows what he is doing.
 
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