DOES HELLER RECOGNIZE A RIGHT TO CARRY ARMS!? - article

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bearing arms

I find it very interesting, as well, that while specifically not deciding about
carry outside the home, he pretty much seems to say you can.

"Since D.C. Code § 22-4504 (prohibition against carrying a pistol without a
license) and D.C. Code § 7-2507.02 (disassembly/trigger lock requirement) would
amount to further conditions on the certificate Heller desires, Heller’s standing to
pursue the license denial would subsume these other claims too." on page 8 of
the decision.

At the end, specifying only in-home, he decides against these statutes as well
as individual rights. Thus, it seems, he MIGHT favor unlicensed carry.

Also, he goes into "First, the word “bear” in this context is simply a more formal
synonym for “carry,”" in some depth (p.24).

And he mentions that by D.C.'s own argument, "The District appears to claim
that “keep and bear” is a unitary term and that the individual word “keep”
should be given no independent significance. This suggestion is somewhat
risible in light of the District’s admonishment, earlier in its brief, that when
interpreting constitutional text “every word must have its due force, and
appropriate meaning; . . . no word was unnecessarily used or needlessly
added.” Appellees’ Br. at 23 (quoting Holmes v. Jennison, 39 U.S.
(14 Pet.) 540, 570-71 (1840)). Even if “keep” and “bear” are not
read as a unitary term, we are told, the meaning of “keep” cannot be
broader than “bear” because the Second Amendment only protects the
use of arms in the course of militia service. Id. at 26-27. But this proposition
assumes its conclusion, and we do not take it seriously."

The judge may not take it seriously, but could we use the argument that
DC said themselves that since keep cannot be broader that bear, if you can
keep it you can bear it?

And, he spends much time on military small arms being much of the intent of
the wording. Such as referring to the Baretta pistol. Now, I know they make
revolvers, but he seems to be referring to the 92F that was the side-arm of
choice for the military for a while.
 
Yet I am damn tired of my rights being denied.

So am I. But I feel it's necessary to warn people of the risks.

In my case, filing a CCW app with a California sheriff from my Tucson home address involves no risk at all to me. One interesting twist: a sheriff can ask the state attorney general for a written opinion of a legal question. That would be a way for a sheriff to buck-pass legal liability. And if the AG's office supports the discrimination against out-of-staters, he can be sued (personally!) in Federal court under 42USC1983.
 
unless you were able to claim federal law was somehow involved.

Is not the Constitution federal law? That document claims so.
You would have to convince a judge that the state law was in conflict with some federal law or the US Constitution. The state supreme court is the highest judge of state law and what is or is not constitutional according to the state constitution. Federal courts do not have any jurisdiction there at all.

For instance, the state supreme court of CA could decide that the state's constitution does indeed already incorporate the 2A as has been suggested. It could also decide it does not. The federal courts would not be able to rule on that particular issue.

The federal court system would decide if the 2A applies to a state via some kind of incorporation via the 14th amendment, for instance. It is very unikely that a state court would unilaterally incorporate a federal constitutional amendment against that state. However, once it became a matter of fact that the 2A was incorporated, it is almost certain they would abide by it.
 
In my case, filing a CCW app with a California sheriff from my Tucson home address involves no risk at all to me. One interesting twist: a sheriff can ask the state attorney general for a written opinion of a legal question. That would be a way for a sheriff to buck-pass legal liability. And if the AG's office supports the discrimination against out-of-staters, he can be sued (personally!) in Federal court under 42USC1983.
In fairness to the sheriffs, they have limited power under the state CCW law to issue CC permits to non-residents. If that power is not granted to them, they just can't do it.
 
In fairness to the sheriffs, they have limited power under the state CCW law to issue CC permits to non-residents. If that power is not granted to them, they just can't do it.

Wanna bet?

If state law is unconstitutional, their first duty is to the constitution.

That said, there's an easy way out: they can ask for an AG opinion. Not many people in California can do that but as elected constitutional officers, sheriffs are among the people who can pose legal questions to the state AG that the AG *must* answer.
 
Jim, does this mean CA might turn into a Mass style ccw system?

If you bring a lawsuit and get recognition of your AZ ccw I mean.
afaik, it is easier for out of state folks to get Mass ccw then it is for Boston residents.
 
Massachusetts' style of gun licensing is also unconstitutional as well.

It being unconstitutional and unfair etc hasn't ever even been a deterrent to CA before, why would this be any different?
I think CA would rather be forced to only recognize other States CCW than issue on a shall issue basis, if only to be able to "blame" red States like Bloomburg does.
 
It being unconstitutional and unfair etc hasn't ever even been a deterrent to CA before, why would this be any different?
I think CA would rather be forced to only recognize other States CCW than issue on a shall issue basis, if only to be able to "blame" red States like Bloomburg does.

Read the cases that depended on the 2nd NOT being an individual right, in order to understand how seriously Heller changed the landscape.

Read Fresno Rifle and Pistol v. Van De Kamp, or Silveira, or any number of other examples of "dead law".
 
ilbob said:
The federal court system would decide if the 2A applies to a state via some kind of incorporation via the 14th amendment, for instance. It is very unikely that a state court would unilaterally incorporate a federal constitutional amendment against that state. However, once it became a matter of fact that the 2A was incorporated, it is almost certain they would abide by it.

Not to be too picky, but the afore mentioned has been done.

"It is contended, that this article of the code, is in violation of the constitution of the United States, and of this state. The clause in the constitution of the United States, that it is said to be in violation of, is the 2d article of the amendments: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." O. & W. Dig. 7. The clause in the constitution of this state, which it is said to violate, is the 13th section of the bill of rights: "Every citizen shall have the right to keep and bear arms, in the lawful defense of himself or the state." O. & W. Dig. 14.

The object of the clause first cited, has reference to the perpetuation of free government, and is based on the idea, that the people cannot be effectually oppressed and enslaved, who are not first disarmed. The clause cited in our bill of rights, has the same broad object in relation to the government, and in addition thereto, secures a personal right to the citizen. The right of a citizen to bear arms, in the lawful defense of himself or the state, is absolute. He does not derive it from the state government, but directly from the sovereign convention of the people that framed the state government. It is one of the "high powers" delegated directly to the citizen, and "is excepted out of the general powers of government." A law cannot be passed (p.402)to infringe upon or impair it, because it is above the law, and independent of the law-making power."
- Texas Supreme Court Decision, Cockrum vs State of Texas, ---- 1859​

It's also interesting to note that this preceded the Fourteenth Amendment.

Woody
 
Texas has an RKBA clause in it's constitution. California doesn't, or rather doesn't appear to. The closest CA comes is in the clause which calls the US Constitution (and presumably amendments) "supreme".

As Amar showed in some of his law review articles, even after Barron v. Baltimore said that states didn't need to honor the BoR, some state courts ignored it and honored the BoR separately from US Supreme Court support. This case seems to be one of those. It won't make much difference today, unfortunately.
 
I thought there was at least a recognition in CA constitution of "hunting and shooting" on public land?
 
I can't find a cite, but

I seem to remember that CA Constitution mandates that public land be open for camping, shooting , fishing , hunting.
which is why we can open carry at campsites unlike TN e.t.c

The closest CA comes is in the clause which calls the US Constitution (and presumably amendments) "supreme".
 
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