Does using a bench-rest = cheating????

Status
Not open for further replies.
There's two subjects here:

Benchrest at the range: go for it! See what your rifle can do. Let your kids enjoy hitting 400yd shots.

Benchrest while "hunting": This is kind of like going to Turner's ranch to "hunt" buffalo. You show up in your truck, shoot your rifle from your bench rest, the tractor comes out and picks up the buffalo that you "hunted" and takes it to the butcher who will promptly make a lot of buffalo stakes and a "trophy" head. :barf:

I take hunting seriously. My grandpa was 74 and would still go out in the field, with nothing but a rifle and compass. He couldn't hike very far, but he sure didn't stay in his truck or use a tree stand! He taught me that real hunting is the act of pursuing an animal (stalking), then killing it as quickly and humanely as possible. If the shot was so far that he needed a rest for stability... he'd get closer to the animal.

I'm not going to say tree stands/bench rests are cheating... but I will say you are not a true hunter until you've actually stalked your game. Anyone can sit in a tree and take a shot, very few people can track a specific animal, get up close and make a good kill.

BTW - Archery hunters who stalk... that's the pinnacle of hunting IMO.
 
Most bowhunters consider using a modern rifle cheating. Makes me wonder about some of these "holier than thou" attitudes.
Click to expand...
This has nothing to do with bow hunting or holier than thou attitudes.

It`s a simple conversation about when enough is enough with our technology in firearms today. Also the fact of leaving at least some sport in the sport. The ease of accurate shooting with a vice is also part of this discussion. The term cheating was the simplest word to use for the question. Lets try not to make this personal
 
a piece of equipment that allowed the rifle to be placed in it and secured by clamping the rifle in place so it could not be moved in any direction
Click to expand...

By that definition of a "bench rest", I wouldn't consider using one in the field to be "cheating". It would, however, be highly impractical unless you could persuade your game animal to walk right into the cross hairs at exactly the right range and pause for a moment while you pull the trigger. ;)

With my luck, the deer would walk just short of the cross hairs, dance a little jig, and stick his tongue out at me for good measure if he saw me using such a contraption in the field. :D
 
Hey sacp81170a, you should see the equipment that I`m refering to. It`s not stationary. The rifle is stationary but the vice turns 360 degrees and has a quick clamp that allows the north to south movement. Another one that I`ve seen is built so that you actually sit in it.
 
Many good posts. Rondog, For Freedom, Brighamr, etc.

Where do you draw the line? Baiting, salt licks, electronic calls, blinds to mention a few. I personally don't hunt because I've yet to find anything that tastes better than a good steak or bird from the local butcher shop.

I do have a fondness for those water critters, yellow perch and walleye, from Lake Erie. They are tough to find (fish finder) and bring down (spanners or snagging in the Maumee River) but limits can be had regardless of the trials and tribulations.

Goes to show that we all have different ideas as to what's proper when it comes to hunting, fishing, etc. Better equipment has changed the way some hunt. To each their own. The bow and arrow guys probably laugh at the stuff the gun guys haul around. If I was good with a spear, I would probably laugh at the B&A guys.

Unless you want to do the thong (post #21) thing, none of us should be badmouthing what others do. As long as it's humane and there isn't friendly fire involved.

JMO.
 
I have never used a lead sled, which is mainly what you are referring to. I think they are best just for finding your most accurate load, if it is too close to call yourself.

I used to shoot competition, small-bore 3-position. It provided great satisfaction when the good targets were fired. Over the years, my lust for it sort of died off. I began to accept what I was physically capable of shooting off-hand, and still wanted more. My days of wearing heavy leather shooting jackets in the 90 degree sun were persuading me in certain ways. Now I have found what I love to do most: long-range bench shooting at 300 yards or more. I use sand bags as my rest, and they still provide a large human element you need to control. So I definitely see nothing wrong with a rest such as bags for learning better form.
 
The rifle is stationary but the vice turns 360 degrees and has a quick clamp that allows the north to south movement. Another one that I`ve seen is built so that you actually sit in it.
Click to expand...

Humor aside, I've seen those advertised by Caldwell, among others. Looks pretty cool, and it would work fine for shooting anything where you could load it into your pickup, drive up to your hunting spot, unload and set it up without disturbing the game. I'd probably use one if I was out shooting prairie dogs, but unless you had a purpose built stand like they have at some of the hunting ranches in Texas, it would be impractical for most other hunting. Can't remember what program it was on, but I remember seeing a hunt they were putting on for disabled vets where some of 'em were using something similar(God bless 'em). Cheating? Nah, not from the look on some of the guys' faces when they got their deer or their hog.

Anything that makes the sport accessible to more people is good for hunting as a whole. I'm a big fan of technology, but I'm also a big fan of skills and fundamentals. Hook 'em on the sport first, and then reel 'em in to the fundamental skills, to borrow an analogy from fishing. We weren't all cut out to be Natty Bumpo. On the other hand, I've humped far too much gear up and down some pretty rough terrain to want to carry any more than I need to. Others may have differing opinions, and they're welcome to them. ;)
 
I'll use bench when I must, but I try to go prown if/when the range master will allow me to.
 
Well, most of us are prone to making occasional spelling misteaks. :)






(And, of course, these misteaks would go well with the prowns.)
 
Well it all has been said, but Ill try as well..........

MTMillitaman did very good, a ways back.

IMO, a bench rest at 40yards from a deer with a 22lb 50bmg is way overkill, I think we all agree.

A "normal" hunter at 400 yards off hand is unethical.

Somewhere in the middle is where most of us are. I'll use the best rest possible to check zero each year. I'll admit I don't shoot nearly enough from field positions, currently working on it. (on a side note I like moderate calibers and am working to get better rifles in that direction.)

In the field, no matter what rest on a white tail I like 150 yards and closer. I'll happily use a pack bag, tree or whatever right down to 50 yards, I'm too darn good at screwing up when the heart rate is up there.

As for disabled, youth or any other * shooter, what ever tripps the trigger is good for me right down to pulling a rope on the remote controlled gun as long as we are having fun.

Shooting at paper, competition or what ever is all good, I dont' care as long as powder is getting burnt.

Thanks for reading, great topic.
Tony
 
If the hunter toting a bench and vise makes a humane kill and doesn't exceed his tag limit, what's the problem?

Some people view it as a "sport" (competition between you and the deer, competition between hunters as to who can get the highest "scoring" animal, whatever). Some other people view it as a way to get outdoors, enjoy God's green earth, and take home some very good high-protein food.

I'm not a hunter (can't afford to be, financially), and if I were, I don't see myself toting a shooting bench around. But in my opinion, as long as you're not poaching or otherwise violating regulations, then you're not cheating, because it's not a game, IMO. Use whatever equipment you want.

It's not like there aren't enough deer to go around. To the contrary, many states are having trouble getting hunters to kill enough deer, because fewer people hunt these days.
 
If you want to shoot at the range i am a member of you will sit at a bench and use at least sand bags on the front, the town has built up around us we can't afford to free hand or stand and shoot. You will be ask to leave if caught shooting off hand with a rifle. We have had several incedents where we were accused of shooting through a house, ballistics proved them false, but there are thoes who want us shut down even if by lieing about a incedent.
 
You know this comes up abotu twice a year. I wish you guys would give it a rest (PUN intended).

Why is it any of your business how, what or why I shoot. Maybe you would have more fun is you mind your own business.
 
The club I belong to has a very strict rule about muzzle control. They haven't required shooting from a rest, yet, but I believe it's entirely possible if we have even one witnessed "over the berm" event.

(It's a couple of miles to the Interstate, and that isn't far enough...)

Meanwhile, we appear to do both rest and offhand shooting. I see most shooters at the High Power range shoot at 100 yds and go home. Some also put up targets at 200 yds, and some shoot offhand at the gongs at either 100 or 200 yds.

I am one of the ones who likes to adjust or verify the scope is working correctly using a rest, look at the group size through the spotting scope, then shoot a few offhand at the gong.

It's 12" at both ranges. I am pleased to report that most of our members can reliably hit the 100 yd gong, and usually hit the 200 yd gong. Perhaps 80% hits on the 200 yd.

Now this isn't competition shooting by any means, but I think it's OK.

I try to do my part to maintain and encourage use of the gongs. The offhand shooting at gongs is a nice, informal measure of "rifleman".
 
Why is it any of your business how, what or why I shoot. Maybe you would have more fun is you mind your own business.
Click to expand...
WOW!! LOL Didn`t know that I was talking to you on a personal basis. Not minding anyone`s business, just having a discussion. And as I`ve read every single post it seems that generally speaking, most are in agreement. It`s not like I said that people use such devices because they can`t hit the side of a barn without them or anything. LOLOL
 
To me personally it comes down to one word: sportsmanship. Target shooting is target shooting and I don't care if you have 8 different bubble levels and a 140x scope on your gun. Hunting should be just that. If you don't have to hunt for it you are just harvesting game, nothing wrong with that as long as you call a duck a duck. Sitting in front of a pile of corn with a pop up bench table in a fenced enclosure is a farce of hunting. If that is what you do to get venison and it legal, happy harvesting. Just don't expect me to tell you what a mighty hunter you are. I don't care how many points it has.
 
Personally, I only use a bench or sled for sighting in. After that, I use either a sandbag or shoot offhand. Sighting in establishes the level of accuracy of the rifle and the ammo; after that is accomplished, then I am the variable in the accuracy equation.

As far as hunting goes, I wouldn't NEED a rest. The last time I actually went, 5 years ago, the darn deer literally walked up to me, less than 30 feet away. I had to wait 5 minutes while it stood there looking at me, waiting to see if I was going to FEED IT, otherwise I'd have risked putting a slug through the chest into the intestinal cavity.....kinda took all the fun of waking up at 3am to be in the field just before first light.
 
Plinky said:
You know, that is true. Also, you can say that it takes more skill to make the shot off hand but the fact is, off hand shooters are simply willing to accept much worse accuracy and stand a higher chance of wounding the animal
Click to expand...

Master of Arms said:
Thats the biggest bunch of BS that I`ve ever heard. Most guys that don`t use a bench are excellent shots. It has nothing to do with excepting less accuracy. Since we`re smearing here, if anyone is a less accurate shooter the guys that have to use benches are the ones who would fall into that category. I`ve never used a bench in my life while hunting and 99% of my kills were with ONE shot. I`d guess to say that the majority of true sportsmen would agree.
Click to expand...

Umm, which part pray tell is BS? That shooting from whatever rest you have is more accurate? Or that the more accurate shot will generally result in a cleaner kill? I am not a "Master of Arms" so I have to ask. If these rules do not apply to you that's fine but they do apply to pretty much everyone else. I am not slamming anyone, it's just a statement of fact.

I am glad that you have made clean kills. That shows that you know your limits and don't take bad shots. Good for you. Some hunters are not as responsible.

As for the original post about the portable benchrest hunter, I have never seen such a thing and it would seem like more of a hindrance than an aid. It could be that he is such a skilled hunter, he has to carry this large device on his back just to give the deer a chance.
 
You could say the same thing about rangefinders and taking some of the sport out.

I like to shoot from a bench to test a gun. If I sight in a scope, I want as much human error out of the final settings as possilbe just like the rest of you folks. I'm not into using a vise to lock in my firearm. I use bags mostly.

IF a bench rest were feasible, I'd use a bench to hunt whitetail deer or varmints from. It is about first seeing the quarry, evaluationg distance and possibly conditions, aiming, and taking the shot. If a bench works for you in the field, go for it. All that said, unless you hunt out of a box blind, I doubt you will have the convenience of a bench to shoot from at wild game. You may not have any rest at all.

I try to shoot from a rest when deer hunting. I practice with and without a rest. 22 rifles are good tools to develop these shooting skills. I need a good rest when I shoot with my 480 SRH with a scope. I take a monopod with me. I guess you could call it a portable "bench rest" as it is an artificial support for your firearm.

So there is no rule for hunting as far as how you steady your firearm to take shot at game.
 
The last time I actually went, 5 years ago, the darn deer literally walked up to me, less than 30 feet away. I had to wait 5 minutes while it stood there looking at me, waiting to see if I was going to FEED IT, otherwise I'd have risked putting a slug through the chest into the intestinal cavity
Click to expand...

Putting on my animal psychologist hat here for a sec, clearly this deer was despondent and was trying to commit "suicide by hunter". Shame on you for taking advantage of the poor thing! :neener:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

H
  • Locked
What kind of rest/ bags/ bench do you use?
2
Replies
30
Views
3K
Casefull
Casefull
T
  • Locked
Shooting from Bench, cheating/unskilled??
2 3
Replies
72
Views
3K
pooch
P
MCMXI
  • Locked
What am I doing wrong with my Marlin Guide Gun in .45-70 shooting off the bench?
2
Replies
33
Views
2K
Asherdan
Asherdan
A
  • Locked
My 5 y/o son's first 10 rounds
Replies
21
Views
609
Armymutt
A
B
  • Locked
new round from Federal the Fusion
Replies
0
Views
373
billykaldrich
B
Back
Top