Dogs, Guns, and Hearing Protection?

[twofewscrews]

So, my dog is a 9 year old 110ish pound Lab mix. He was part of an accident litter, mom is 100% Lab and the dad is unknown, that my girlfriend got in Missouri from a hunter. He does not care about gunshots. When he was a puppy they spent an afternoon shooting shotguns off the front porch. The pup went to the other end and took a nap once he realized he wouldn't be getting any attention for a good while. As far as I know he was never trained or introduced to gunshots or guns prior to the shooting shotguns off the porch. He was adopted when he was still a wee little pup so I'm relatively certain he was not exposed to gunfire prior to this but I can't be 100% sure. The guy was specifically breeding hunting dogs so its possible but I've been told he was too young for that kind of training.

I recently got a Maverick 88 (12 gauge) and was worried about bringing him to the local public range for one reason. I don't have or know of any doggy earplugs or muffs, or really know if dogs will get hearing damage from gunshots. Dogs have a weird ear thing that reacts to noise and closes up when something too loud is near them. Gunshots are theoretically too fast for the ear thing to react to, but there's nothing that proves it.

What are your experiences with guns, dogs, and hearing protection? Do gun dogs lose their hearing from gunshots? Does the position of the dog in relation to the gun make a difference? Are there doggy earplugs and earmuffs? Am I just being overly concerned for my pooch?

 

[J-Bar]

Dogs have a weird ear thing that reacts to noise and closes up when something too loud is near them.

Please give me your reference for this.

All mammals have a stapedial or acoustic reflex to protect the nerves from being damaged by very loud sounds that get loud gradually. But the reflex cannot protect the acoustic nerves from a sudden onset loud sound, like gunshots. The reflex, which involves tightening the tiny muscles connecting the three tiny bones in the middle ear, reducing the force transmitted from the eardrum to the oval window, cannot react fast enough to protect against damage from a nearby gunshot.

I know of no unique structure that only dogs have.

Retired veterinarian here.

 

[FROGO207]

Can I swap spots with your dog! He looks like he has an awesome life so far. No, I do not know other than dogs in our family went towards deaf as they got ancient and they were not hunting dogs.

 

[twofewscrews]

Please give me your reference for this.

All mammals have a stapedial or acoustic reflex to protect the nerves from being damaged by very loud sounds that get loud gradually. But the reflex cannot protect the acoustic nerves from a sudden onset loud sound, like gunshots. The reflex, which involves tightening the tiny muscles connecting the three tiny bones in the middle ear, reducing the force transmitted from the eardrum to the oval window, cannot react fast enough to protect against damage from a nearby gunshot.

I know of no unique structure that only dogs have.

Retired veterinarian here.

Thanks for the correction. I guess that answers the question of whether gunshots will harm a dogs hearing or any mammal I guess. I can't tell you where I heard it but most likely somewhere on the interwebs at a late hour.

Before you retired did you encounter any dogs who had their hearing damaged by gunshots? If so, do you know the circumstances that led to it? I assume if the dog is in front of or next to the firearm when it is discharged the dog is more likely to get hearing damage then when the dog is behind the firearm or off to the side.

Do you recommend or know of any products to protect dog hearing? IE, doggy earplugs or muffs

 

[twofewscrews]

Can I swap spots with your dog! He looks like he has an awesome life so far. No, I do not know other than dogs in our family went towards deaf as they got ancient and they were not hunting dogs.

Unless you got the voodoo secret from Chucky before he got was vanquished you're out of luck my friend.

I've had the same experience with aging dogs, although sometimes I swear they're just taking advantage of you thinking they're deaf to do as they please

 

[J-Bar]

An internet search yields dog ear plugs and ear muffs for sale. I have no experience with any of them. Perhaps a soldier who handled a dog in a war zone can provide input based on personal experience.

The hunting dogs in my veterinary practice, to my knowledge, never wore hearing protection in the field. They probably experienced some hearing loss from nearby gunfire, but could still respond to their owner's commands. I just don't know how practical these ear plugs and muffs are. Hearing tests for dogs are not like hearing tests for humans. Researchers can measure evoked cortical responses to auditory stimuli in a laboratory setting, but that requires anesthesia and surgery. Not practical for a hunting companion.

Old dogs that have never been near gunfire can go deaf just like humans do. So aging, not just gunfire can affect hearing too.

I appreciate your desire to protect your pet. I took my field dogs hunting and they looked forward to it. They would get excited when they saw my shotgun, and even more excited when they saw game birds and I took a shot.

My recommendation is to enjoy hunting with your dog at every opportunity. As you age together, those memories will be priceless. So you both go deaf. It happens.

 

[.308 Norma]

Old dogs that have never been near gunfire can go deaf just like humans do. So aging, not just gunfire can affect hearing too.

Yep, our 13 year-old cocker/springer cross, Ruger is all but totally deaf now (he can still hear it if I whistle real loud) and we've made every effort to keep him away from gunfire ever since he was a pup. That's because Ruger has always been terrified of gunfire, fireworks and thunder.
Of course we've heard numerous ways to break a dog of gun shyness. But why? Ruger has always been just a pet - although it used to be comforting to know that he could hear whenever someone turned into our driveway because Ruger would "sound the alarm." Still, if we wanted a hunting dog, we'd go buy one - one with shorter hair that wasn't as likely to pick up every burr in this part of the state.
Anyway, I wrote in another thread about how my American Legion Post performed the gun salute and raised the flag this year at a Memorial Day gathering in Downey - a small town about 15 miles south of here. My wife was there with Ruger, and she said Ruger didn't even move when we fired the guns (7, M-1 Garands with blanks), but he went berserk when the 50 or so Harley riders (the local POW/MIA motorcycle club) revved their engines. I'm pretty sure that was because Ruger could more "feel the thunder" rather than hear it though.

 

[WheelGunMan]

I had a Black Lab that used to lay at my feet when I would go shooting. As she aged her hearing went...she would respond to hand signals after I got her attention with a loud clap of my hands. This thread has evoked great memories of her and the time we spent together.

 

[Riomouse911]

My Dads Weimaraner accompanied us on quail hunting trips to Northern Arizona for many years. We once tried to put rubber booties on him for the thorns and he hated them, I think he would’ve gone nuts if we tried to plug his ears with muffs.

I don’t recall him showing signs of hearing loss as he aged and ultimately passed away. It could be that he wasn’t as close to the shotguns firing as duck-blind dogs are and the report wasn’t as sharp at that distance? (Who knows?)

It certainly is a concern though.

Stay safe.

 

[entropy]

Start with a .22 fired a distance away from the dog. Other side of the barn, something like that. Observe their reaction. Work up to 12 ga. slowly, and when he's comfortable with that, bring him to the gun club during Trap or Skeet, but keep him farther away at first. He'll soon hardly notice the shots, like you do at the range.
After his first time hunting, he'll probably start jumping up and down when he hears shots, or you even get your gun out. My pheasant hunting buddy's dog does.

 

[twofewscrews]

Start with a .22 fired a distance away from the dog. Other side of the barn, something like that. Observe their reaction. Work up to 12 ga. slowly, and when he's comfortable with that, bring him to the gun club during Trap or Skeet, but keep him farther away at first. He'll soon hardly notice the shots, like you do at the range.
After his first time hunting, he'll probably start jumping up and down when he hears shots, or you even get your gun out. My pheasant hunting buddy's dog does.

\

I was more concerned with damaging his hearing. He doesn't care about gunshots either due to genes or previous experience. I've brought him to the public range once already, along with my Ruger 10/22 and Maverick 88, and he knew what to do even though he was never trained for it. He instinctively understood not to go beyond the firing line and didn't seem bothered at all by the gunshots.

 

[twofewscrews]

My Dads Weimaraner accompanied us on quail hunting trips to Northern Arizona for many years. We once tried to put rubber booties on him for the thorns and he hated them, I think he would’ve gone nuts if we tried to plug his ears with muffs.

I don’t recall him showing signs of hearing loss as he aged and ultimately passed away. It could be that he wasn’t as close to the shotguns firing as duck-blind dogs are and the report wasn’t as sharp at that distance? (Who knows?)

It certainly is a concern though.

Stay safe.

When we were living in NYC we tried putting booties on him because of all the salt they used on the streets, he refused to go anywhere with then on. We also briefly had a food muzzle net thing for him. He broke it in all of ten seconds. I've looked at the earmuffs and plugs for dogs and they either seem to be complete garbage material wise or they have design flaws. I was hoping to find something to protect his ears but it seems that distance from the firearm is the most effective option.

 

[hso]

dogs will get hearing damage

distance from the firearm is the most effective option

Also, your dog doesn't have a role on the range while you're shooting and may be at risk of a ND that he doesn't need to be subject to.

 

[twofewscrews]

your dog doesn't have a role on the range

I see you're not a dog person

 

[hso]

I see you're not a dog person

Not at all. I love my dog (far better than I love most family members).

Because I love him I won't subject him to unnecessary risk.

 

[1942bull]

Dogs do get hearing damage from gunfire. This brief article addresses that study.
https://www.newsarchive.msstate.edu...and-hearing-msu-studies-gun-noise-effect-dogs

Hearing protection for dogs is available. On Amazon search for dog hearing protection.

 

[Speedo66]

Consider yourself lucky if your dog is ambivalent to gunfire.

My Wheaten terrier, pictured here, does not tolerate fireworks or thunder well. Poor thing shivers and attempts to get into the smallest space he can find.

 

[shoobe01]

If you insist on range time esp, then don't forget about eyepro also.

One I have seen in use (like, mil dog handlers) is combined eye/earpro. They work together to be a complete system. Here's one, I think there are others:
http://www.elitek9.com/K-9-Eyes-and-Ears-Basic-Kit/productinfo/A159/

Getting them to wear this is an entirely separate training experience. Some dogs won't take it at all. You might even start with a Gentle Leader to get them to tolerate head-mounted stuff with a reward (I get to go for a walk!). But anyway, then very short timeframes, with some reward, even just running around, playing fetch, etc. depends on your dog's reward structure, while wearing them. Will be weeks or months before they can go for hours in the field with their PPE on.

 

[MacAR]

My experience is thus: whenever my gun goes off, my dog goes in the direction I've shot, looking for something to fetch back. As you can imagine, this makes target shooting a little bit of a pain. But she's learned now that if I'm at the bench, there's nothing (usually) to fetch. I will add, that while I do love 'ol Sam very much and enjoy hunting with her (and we've hunted over a lot of this area), I wouldn't consider taking her to a public shooting range. And, it's not because I think she'd be in the way or cause trouble. It's because you can't ever tell what kind of idiot is gonna be there, and if someone hurt or shot my dog, accidentally or otherwise, well... it wouldn't be very pretty. So she stays on her porch when I go to do things like that. For her own safety, and the safety of others. I'd encourage you to consider that angle of things.

Mac

 

[.308 Norma]

My Wheaten terrier, pictured here, does not tolerate fireworks or thunder well. Poor thing shivers and attempts to get into the smallest space he can find.

Yup, before he went deaf, our dog, Ruger used to go hide in the bathtub when thunder rumbled. And he seemed to prefer it if I'd sit in the tub with him, and hold him in my arms until the storm passed.
Years ago, my wife bought Ruger one of those tight-fitting coat-like things called a "Thundershirt." It helped, but until he went deaf, Ruger still headed for the bathroom every 4th of July when there were fireworks shows in Inkom and/or Lava Hot Springs - both towns 10 miles away in different directions.
At any rate, there are charts on the internet that list breeds of dogs that are most subject to congenital deafness as they age. It looks like Dalmatians usually head the lists. However, Cockers (which is what Ruger is) aren't that far behind, unfortunately.
Not that we wouldn't have brought Ruger home anyway even we would have known he was likely to go deaf when he got old. He's still the best dog we've ever had.

 

[Zack856]

Dogs can go deaf from gunfire just like we can. Theres also a correlation between white dogs and a higher chance of deafness. Tons of white bull terriers and dalmatians are deaf. I've got two deaf dogs and it's a pain to get them into the house. Both are mostly white. I got the one trained on hand signals but the other one is mostly blind as well. I wouldn't do anything to compromise their hearing when you can just get a deaf dog. I'd loan ya my Parsons because she's completely deaf but she's too quick. She'd kill everything in sight before you could get the safety off.

 

[hso]

https://huntingpup.com/hearingprotection/

 

[Speedo66]

And he seemed to prefer it if I'd sit in the tub with him, and hold him in my arms until the storm passed.
Years ago, my wife bought Ruger one of those tight-fitting coat-like things called a "Thundershirt." It helped, but until he went deaf, Ruger still headed for the bathroom every 4th of July when there were fireworks shows in Inkom and/or Lava Hot Springs - both towns 10 miles away in different directions.

Yeah, he's got a Thundershirt, and as you say, it seems to help somewhat.

He can hear thunder coming from who knows how far away, and starts going into shivering mode long before we hear any. Of course, I'm half deaf myself. The military, a LE career, motorcycle riding, plus this gun hobby helped that along quite well.

 

[stillquietvoice]

My wife and I had a German Shepard, Nathan. At 3 mo old we took him to a cw reenactment, he found an injured rabbit, hit by a car, in a wooded area near our encampment. Has my second Sargent put it down with an 1858 Remington. They was his first exposure to gunfire. The next day, I recovering from surgery, went to watch a battle. We observed from behind an artilary battery, 4 5 in guns outgoing and 3 5 in guns incoming. The first shots from those cannons didn't even phase him, he sat there like, ok do what's the big deal. 6 months later I was able to join the fight, he knew I was out on the field, WA OK until I went down, he broke away from my wife, bolted acrossed the field and laid on top of me. Wouldn't let anyone near me. After that he had to be by my side or had to stay in camp.

 

[entropy]

If you insist on range time esp, then don't forget about eyepro also.

One I have seen in use (like, mil dog handlers) is combined eye/earpro. They work together to be a complete system. Here's one, I think there are others:
http://www.elitek9.com/K-9-Eyes-and-Ears-Basic-Kit/productinfo/A159/
View attachment 1008428
Getting them to wear this is an entirely separate training experience. Some dogs won't take it at all. You might even start with a Gentle Leader to get them to tolerate head-mounted stuff with a reward (I get to go for a walk!). But anyway, then very short timeframes, with some reward, even just running around, playing fetch, etc. depends on your dog's reward structure, while wearing them. Will be weeks or months before they can go for hours in the field with their PPE on.

Wouldn't that be CPE? (Canine Protective Equipment)

Our Rat Terrier can't stand fireworks, though he's better than when we got him. Then he'd shoot under the bed as fast as he could. Now he curls up in Mommy's lap and she puts the afghan over him.