Domestic abuse victim wants handgun BUT...

[AlexanderA]

Ask her straight out if she's mentally prepared to kill her ex if he threatens her. If her answer is "no" -- and it looks as though that's the case -- then a gun has no part in this equation. She's likely to wave it around, get it taken away from her, and then used against her.

I would suggest having her and the kids stay at an undisclosed location until the whole matter blows over.

 

[HexHead]

She's her own worst enemy.

 

[Sam1911]

She's her own worst enemy.

See, that's the sort of hyperbole that just makes this absurd. She might have an negligent discharge. Statistically speaking, that's VERY unlikely. (Lots of untrained people own guns and DON'T, generally, fire them inadvertently.) She doesn't want to go shoot the gun in practice. That doesn't mean she's necessarily going to act negligently with it, otherwise.

She MIGHT not scare the guy off and MIGHT have the gun taken away and used against her. Well...so what? If he didn't use the gun, he'd use something else. Killed by an abusive ex is killed by an abusive ex, no matter what the implement, or who's.

She MIGHT meet him at the door with that gun and send him racing for the next county, and follow up with a police report that puts him in the pokey for violating his restraining order.

She MIGHT get "lucky" and discharge a shot into his sternum as he's rushing her with a knife. Or get "lucky" and put one through his thigh or shoulder or FOOT when he's trying to bludgeon her -- anything to slow him down and cause him to lose heart/focus.

The idea that she's "her own worst enemy" is just (meaning no disrespect) [strike]stupid[/strike] ridiculous.

 

[Thermactor]

If she wants a handgun but doesn't want to practice with it then I recommend that you point her away from firearms.

She's more of a danger to herself and her children if she gets a gun and doesn't know how to use it.

 

[Baron66]

Would you give a non-driver (who refuses to learn how to drive) your car keys in case there was an emergency where they needed to drive somewhere? No, of course not.

Buy her a few bottles of pepper spray: one for the car, one for the purse and a couple for the house.

 

[whatever]

Thanks for the replies folks. Even if she wouldnt shoot it in practice I would make darn sure I taught her proper handling (and dry fire practice too). Also, any firearm I gave her would come with a proper gunvault-like safe to keep out of the hands of her kids.

Also, I will obviously do everything in my power to get her to visit the range a few times. I just hope the whole abuse thing bloww over quickly...seeing the effects on thise little girls is heartbreaking.

 

[Agsalaska]

I have been in your shoes before. There are not any real good answers. In the end my answer was a good taser.

 

[Zach S]

So, I agree this is a very bad situation. (The potential risk to her kids has be quite worried.) BUT, I would NEVER be the guy who denied her access to a firearm, or even refused to lend her one in a moment of need, just because I didn't think her skills were up to snuff.

Sam, I always slow down and read your posts, since you have a habit of bringing up excellent points...

This is the very definition of a catch 22. Lack of training, practice, and desire for either one, puts her and her children at risk. But, with the ex, they are at risk anyway...

Sounds like the OP is pretty insistent in showing her proper handling, and providing gunvault to keep little hands off of it. Some basic instruction does got a long way, but hopefully the need wont arise for it.

 

[Warp]

I'd say a large container of OC. 4oz minimum for the house, big riot style optional.

And get her to a range at least one time. Seriously. Ask her if she would trust somebody who has never driven a vehicle to drive her child to the hospital just because somebody told them how the steering wheel and pedals work while sitting in the driveway.

What a mess. Instead of a hand gun take the advise of the Vice Pres. Get her a shotgun, perhaps one with the pistol grip and no stock. Dont need a lot of practice to hit with a # 5 or smaller load.

Please make note of this poster's 'name'.

This is about the worse possible "advice" one could give on the situation.

I can only hope that he is intentionally trying to ruffle feathers with such ridiculous 'advice'

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I feel for her situation. Domestic violence is certainly a serious problem and many times we don't do enough to address it.

However, someone who refuses to go to the range and practice isn't getting a gun of mine. Period.

 

[RustyShackelford]

0....

I say 0.
If this post is true & the female family member won't train with or apply for a CCW then I would not give her any firearms.

I've posted often on this forum & others that; guns are not toys, props, fashion or political statements.
Firearms are lethal weapons that can injury or kill.

This may be a "false flag" or "catfish" type post.
I wouldn't think any responsible forum member would give a loaded firearm to a untrained adult.

 

[tarosean]

If she is willing to spend a couple hours learning send her to an NRA Handgun Basics class.

 

[Trent]

Revolver. Easiest to use under stress.

And INSIST on a couple hours at the range for familiarization, safety lesson, and live-fire practice BEFORE you bring it to her.

Period.

 

[Trent]

This is an awful situation, and I'd normally never be one to say that a gun is a talisman, or a gun can be "relied on" by someone who won't train.

However... the undeniable fact is that relatively untrained people (little old grannies, kids, spouses of gun owners...lots of folks) DO use guns to defend themselves thousands of times every year.

Yes, they do.

But this isn't a case of "grabbing the husband's / father's gun while he's away and using it to defend themselves."

This is "I want to bring a dangerous instrument in to my home for an unknown period of time, which I don't know how to use properly."

One is an act of negligence on the part of the husband/father for never providing necessary training, that works out OK. (It could just as easily not work out OK and result in a tragedy.)

One is an act of negligence on the part of the original poster, if they follow through and deliver said gun and ammo to the abused, without any training or round-ever-fired.

Both are preventable.

My 8 year old daughter has gone through a boiled down version of NRA basic pistol with me. So has my 10 year old daughter, my 15 year old daughter, my 15 year old son, my 17 year old son, my wife, my grandfather, my grandmother, and even my mentally disabled sister who can't even OWN guns.

Why???

If they are going to be around firearms they are going to respect them, understand how they function, understand how careless handling can result in great danger to those around them, and so that (in an extreme situation) they can protect their lives.

There is NO excuse for handing a gun off to someone who has never, ever been around guns and doesn't know the basic rules of gun safety, safe handling, and storage.

ESPECIALLY if there's small children involved.

If she wants to take responsibility for her own protection and keep a firearm in the home, she BETTER be willing to take responsibility for her and her children's safety and submit to a safety lesson (including live fire, loading, unloading operations), safe storage, and the basic fundamentals of "bullets can shoot through walls and still kill your children on the other side, even if you can't see them..."

I'd never just hand over a gun to someone who has never been trained. Ever. Not unless they are in one of my classes, and I'm training them. I've done that plenty of times, but they're there to learn, and I'm there to teach....

 

[Warp]

Curious...how do you guys feel about FFL's selling guns to people who don't show proof of training?

 

[JohnKSa]

This is "I want to bring a dangerous instrument in to my home for an unknown period of time, which I don't know how to use properly."

Sort of. It's really:

"I want to bring a dangerous instrument in to my home for an unknown period of time, and I don't WANT to know how to use it properly."​

I run across this attitude in people who are basically opposed to guns and violence. They think they can benefit from having a gun but want to remain "pure" and so don't want to have to actually learn anything about the gun or how to use it.

I'd want to talk to her some more to find out exactly what she plans to do with the gun. It sounds suspiciously to me like she wants a magic talisman that she can wave at the danger to make it disappear. That could work, but it can be a very dangerous strategy against someone who sees through it.

 

[Trent]

Curious...how do you guys feel about FFL's selling guns to people who don't show proof of training?

Happens every day.

The difference there is it's commerce. (And you get civil immunity / indemnity in most every state as an FFL).

This is different, though. This guy KNOWS the person and he'll need to live with the outcome if anything goes south.

"Because it's OK for them to do it" does not relieve one of the duty of adherence to the direction a moral / ethical compass points.

My remarks aren't intended to be taken lightly - my uncle Kevin killed himself with a negligent discharge of a firearm that *I* sold him as an FFL.

So I've been there, dude.

This guy needs to listen to what I'm saying.

 

[wannabeagunsmith]

Why don't you stay there at her house with guns? I am sure she would feel better that way and maybe her kids having a positive male role model around would be good as well.

 

[Field Tester]

Why don't you stay there at her house with guns? I am sure she would feel better that way and maybe her kids having a positive male role model around would be good as well.

How is that a viable solution to the problem at hand? The OP may have their own family to take care of. Beyond that, anything past a few days becomes a real nuisance.

What needs to happen is an honest open discussion with the different options and scenarios presented by several people in this thread and for the victim to see what she is most comfortable with.
Fortunately for her there are several classes that are free or very low cost that will help her to prevent being a victim in the future.

OP,
I hope she is open to a few more suggestions. If need be, print out this page for discussion and show her what minds educated in this field already know. She has several options available to her, but she needs to put forth the effort to adequately protect herself and her family. If that's only 30 min of education or hours worth, it's up to her. But she needs something if it's only just to show she can be somewhat proficient with your firearm for a box or two.
If not, tell her you don't feel comfortable lending your firearm and the reasons why and then let her know where the nearest FFL is.

This way you're insulated from any far reaching legal action, but you're also morally covered.
You can lead a horse to water and all that.

 

[Davek1977]

I would never give a firezrm to someone not willing to put the time and effort into learning to use it. If she truly desires protection, she will make that concession. Putting a gun in the hands of someone untrained to use it is dangerous, and a liability I wouldn't risk despite the danger she faces. A gun is worthless without training, and is as much of a danger as as helper in untrained hands. I wouldn't give someone the keys to a Corvette that has never driven before, and the same logic applies here

 

[MEHavey]

...she is adamant that she does not want to shoot it unless she is forced to....

I can then virtually guarantee the gun will be taken from her, ...and then used on her (if not here kids as well.)

Don't have it even in the house.

 

[TomJ]

See, that's the sort of hyperbole that just makes this absurd. She might have an negligent discharge. Statistically speaking, that's VERY unlikely. (Lots of untrained people own guns and DON'T, generally, fire them inadvertently.) She doesn't want to go shoot the gun in practice. That doesn't mean she's necessarily going to act negligently with it, otherwise.

She MIGHT not scare the guy off and MIGHT have the gun taken away and used against her. Well...so what? If he didn't use the gun, he'd use something else. Killed by an abusive ex is killed by an abusive ex, no matter what the implement, or who's.

She MIGHT meet him at the door with that gun and send him racing for the next county, and follow up with a police report that puts him in the pokey for violating his restraining order.

She MIGHT get "lucky" and discharge a shot into his sternum as he's rushing her with a knife. Or get "lucky" and put one through his thigh or shoulder or FOOT when he's trying to bludgeon her -- anything to slow him down and cause him to lose heart/focus.

The idea that she's "her own worst enemy" is just (meaning no disrespect) [strike]stupid[/strike] ridiculous.

I completely understand her wanting a gun to protect herself, and don't disagree with that. Assuming there's a real threat to her, and I see no reason to doubt her, I'd go as far as to encourage her to obtain a gun, as she not only has the right to protect herself but the obligation to protect those kids. What bothers me is her refusal to learn how to use it. Something's not right, and I can't advise giving a gun to someone under those circumstances.

I don't mean to sound callous towards her situation, as I've had family members in similar situations. It's an awful experience to live through, but she needs to meet the OP halfway and learn how to handle the gun. She doesn't need to become an expert, but she does need to understand the basics.

Finally, I would make sure every other legal option was exhausted, including moving in with a friend or family member or finding a shelter, so the husband can't find her. In addition to being the right thing to do, if she does need to protect herself with a gun, her attorney is going to want to point to the fact that she tried every available option to avoid the situation, and using the gun was the last resort. She does not want to be seen as "laying in wait" for him, as she can be prosecuted. Those kids need at least one parent around to raise them.

 

[Sav .250]

If she won't shoot it to practice, how in the heck will she do so should it become necessary?

Very true.

Having a weapon does not make you save. Especially, if you don`t know how to use it!

 

[45_auto]

A cousin of mine was in a similar situation in the early 1970's. Newborn baby, abusive husband.

She separated from her husband, took the baby (less than a year old at the time), and went to live with her sister in the sister's apartment. Bought a S&W Model 66. Had never fired a gun, never fired the M66. No training courses anywhere at the time.

Couple of weeks later the husband came over one evening. Cousin wouldn't let him into the apartment. He grabbed a fire ax and started chopping and kicking his way into the apartment, screaming stuff like "If I can't have her no one will".

Cousin called police, told husband she had a gun, go away.

He came through the door with the ax, she shot him 6 times and killed him.

Big court fight afterwards because he had a $1,000,000 life insurance policy with her as beneficiary. His parents sued her trying to get some of the money. They lost.

I have a hard time believing that she and her child would be better off today if she didn't have the gun.

 

[Potatohead]

Pepper spray or a stun gun.

Yea, that oughta get him good and ticked off..