Don’t let “gun violence” go unanswered.

[Elkins45]

I think this belongs here.

You usually don’t get the opportunity to correct flawed reporting, but with the current trend of reporters posting their stories to social media platforms we have the opportunity to maybe move the needle a bit.

One of my pet peeves is the term “gun violence” because we all know guns are inanimate objects and therefore incapable of violent acts. Whenever a reporter uses the term on any sort of social media post I have gotten in the habit of chastising them, asking them why they don’t report drunk driving deaths as “car violence” or drownings as “water violence” since they think blaming the object is appropriate.

Maybe if we do it enough it might sink in.

 

[Ivy Mike]

We all know that guns don't actually commit violence. It's kind of a trite thing to say really.
Just makes gun owners sound stupid when they say guns don't kill people, people kill people. Because a quick glance at the FBI's uniform crime reports will quickly tell you that people with guns do the vast majority of the killing.

 

[Tommygunn]

*Sigh* Good luck. I know you're right. You know you're right. We know you're right.

But you're assuming a bunch of ink stained hyenas and media myrmidons with the collective IQ of a sand flea can be ejumakated.

 

[Elkins45]

*Sigh* Good luck. I know you're right. You know you're right. We know you're right.

But you're assuming a bunch of ink stained hyenas and media myrmidons with the collective IQ of a sand flea can be ejumakated.

That’s one of the positives of social media. Maybe you can’t educate the reporter, but the people reading the comments might just have their horizons expanded.

 

[Old Dog]

We could argue semantics 'til the cows come home... but the print media and the mainstream television and internet news reporting is essentially preaching to the choir. Its audience, those who absorb what's "reported" as gospel are typically incapable of critical thinking and assign guns as the cause of violence. This is no more clearly demonstrated by our election results and by the fools those few that actually vote put in office.

We know violence is a behavior, and that the guns do not cause violence. But, alas, the populace choses to remain ignorant -- so long as credit comes easy, a new motor vehicle can be bought by anyone, the latest I-Phones and Galaxy phones are released on time, there's ready access to cool video games (G*d forbid anyone should desire to live in the live world rather than spend the majority of their waking hours in virtual reality) and Starbucks keeps pumping out their favorite macchiato, critical thinking and reasoned civil discourse becomes more and more obsolete.

 

[Ru4real]

That’s one of the positives of social media. Maybe you can’t educate the reporter, but the people reading the comments might just have their horizons expanded.

I think the biggest positive to social media is that I’m not on it!

 

[SharpDog]

I think the biggest positive to social media is that I’m not on it!

I agree ... just teasing

We could argue semantics 'til the cows come home...

There are cows ?

But seriously, If all of us would actively do what we can it might change.

Donate to NRA, SAF GOF your local politicians / political party.

Go and ecucate a new shooter.

Every little bit helps.

 

[whisler]

If you doubt that "every little bit helps" (or hurts), just look what has happened to, and in, our educational system. Over a period of many years we have gone from educators warning about the dangers of socialism to those extolling its virtues. Anything we can do is absolutely a help, especially if it is done repeatedly and over a long enough period.

 

[SharpDog]

If you doubt that "every little bit helps" (or hurts), just look what has happened to, and in, our educational system. Over a period of many years we have gone from educators warning about the dangers of socialism to those extolling its virtues. Anything we can do is absolutely a help, especially is done repeatedly and over a long enough period.

In the last 3 mos I have converted my leftist friend (his words). He told me tonight that he and his girlfriend are going to get their carry permits. He has gone from a dedicated leftist voter to undecided at this point and is now bringing up pro-gun topics with me. He already bought his first pistol which I taught him how to own and shoot and tomorrow he said he will contact me to start looking for an AR.


Not 6 mos. ago I was arguing with him over anti-gun issues

 

[Ivy Mike]

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u....018/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls

Just in case anyone wants actual statistics. We are all aware that guns don't kill people but people take a look at this data and quickly realize that guns make it far easier to kill someone.
So when you think you're giving someone valuable information by telling them guns don't kill people, they roll their eyes at you because such a statement is basically meaningless. Nobody is afraid of a gun jumping up and killing someone.

 

[SharpDog]

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u....018/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls

Just in case anyone wants actual statistics. We are all aware that guns don't kill people but people take a look at this data and quickly realize that guns make it far easier to kill someone.
So when you think you're giving someone valuable information by telling them guns don't kill people, they roll their eyes at you because such a statement is basically meaningless. Nobody is afraid of a gun jumping up and killing someone.

Not too many are afraid of cars either (e.g. drunk drivers)



https://www.responsibility.org/alco...statistics/drunk-driving-fatality-statistics/

However, I did forget about the constitutional amendment about the right to drive cars ...

 

[Ivy Mike]

Not too many are afraid of cars either (e.g. drunk drivers)

However, I did forget about the constitutional amendment about the right to drive cars ...

Your what-about argument doesn't really help matters.

 

[SharpDog]

Your what-about argument doesn't really help matters.

How about the what about the constitutional amendments. Standard defelection tactic muddles your original point about relying on the data.

The data as compared to what ?

 

[Ivy Mike]

How about the what about the constitutional amendments. Standard defelection tactic muddles your original point about relying on the data.

The data as compared to what ?

Has anyone seriously proposed repealing the 2nd Amendment? Unless I missed it recently, I haven't seen the House or Senate call for an amendment.

 

[SharpDog]

So, your argument is based on 'we haven't tried that yet' as proof that that is not your goal ...

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/103/hjres81/text


Admittedly this is state-specific ... but it points to intent.

https://rightwingtribune.com/2019/03/09/repeal-the-2nd/

 

[SharpDog]

Biden's opinion is that he's not 'taking anything away' as long as yuou have your handful of hunting cartridges or shotgun shells to shoot.

Which, of course, completely misses the entire point of the second amendment. (this exchange starts @ 2:00 in)

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Has anyone seriously proposed repealing the 2nd Amendment? Unless I missed it recently, I haven't seen the House or Senate call for an amendment.

https://www.businessinsider.com/second-amendment-john-paul-stevens-calls-for-repeal-2018-3
This someone seems pretty serious.

https://fee.org/articles/lawmakers-in-hawaii-propose-repealing-second-amendment/
So do these someones.

 

[Archie]

Just in case anyone wants actual statistics. We are all aware that guns don't kill people but people take a look at this data and quickly realize that guns make it far easier to kill someone.
So when you think you're giving someone valuable information by telling them guns don't kill people, they roll their eyes at you because such a statement is basically meaningless. Nobody is afraid of a gun jumping up and killing someone.

I do not agree with your thought. Every anti gun nitwit claims less guns will result in less crime. A claim that is historically and statistically untrue, not just idiotic.

NONE of the anti gun people care about enhanced sentences for those committing crimes. The trend to release all criminals without bail of any sort is championed by the same nitwits blaming firearms. Encouraging criminals while punishing productive people seems to be the desired result of all this.

 

[Archie]

Two responses come to mind.

"Gun Violence" is misleading. There is 'violence' which is a desire/thought/plan of action of a human being. 'Guns' do not generate violence, people do. The same idiots who champion the neutering of the electorate do not shout about 'Knife Violence' or 'Automobile Violence' or 'Baseball Bat Violence'.

The idea that 'guns' cause violence means those who espouse such a position think guns have 'evil spirits'. The 'evil spirits' take over human minds and cause the owner to do vile things. Second Amendment supporters should demand large bundles of tax money be funneled into exorcisms; to remove the 'evil spirits' from guns.

 

[Hartkopf]

Guns make is slightly easier for people to murder. If guns did not exist, knives, hammers, bats and pipes will get used.

Nobody says knives, hammers, bats and pipes kill.

How about medical mistakes? That’s the real danger.

 

[SharpDog]

Well I'm planning to go hunting in the middle of the night with a Wraith riding on a Black Panther which wull be held cativr by my BOG Drathgrip and it's all black ... scary

 

[Ivy Mike]

https://www.businessinsider.com/second-amendment-john-paul-stevens-calls-for-repeal-2018-3
This someone seems pretty serious.

https://fee.org/articles/lawmakers-in-hawaii-propose-repealing-second-amendment/
So do these someones.

John Paul Stevens was a supreme court justice and died last year.

Yes, there are always a few extreme types out there. You see them on both sides of the aisle where some want to outlaw guns and others want to be able to own high explosives. But the point is that the 2nd Amendment isn't going anywhere short of the collapse of the whole country. The extremist arguments halt any sort of meaningful discussion on issues that face our nation.

 

[Ivy Mike]

I do not agree with your thought. Every anti gun nitwit claims less guns will result in less crime. A claim that is historically and statistically untrue, not just idiotic.

NONE of the anti gun people care about enhanced sentences for those committing crimes. The trend to release all criminals without bail of any sort is championed by the same nitwits blaming firearms. Encouraging criminals while punishing productive people seems to be the desired result of all this.

I don't think they claim it will result in less crime, but it will result in fewer murders. That part is undeniable when you see just how lopsided the figures are. Guns make it easier to inflict a lethal wound, that's why they were invented. We see that where other weapons are used, the numbers of murders are far lower.

The trend to release people without bail is not because they think it encourages criminals, nor does it harm productive people. Bail is unfair to poorer people in this country. It can deprive them of their ability to earn a living and hold them in jail for lack of money. You literally have a system that punishes people more because they are poor and don't generally miss court dates anyway. You end up with situations like Kalief Browder who was arrested for stealing a backpack, held in Rikers Island for three years and refused to plead guilty. Eventually, prosecutors dropped the charge. 3 years in jail because he refused to plead out and couldn't post bail.
That isn't justice.
There is good reason why we more liberty-minded types have a problem with sentencing enhancements in many cases. It's because they get used capriciously to force defendants to plead out, rather than risk incredibly harsh sentences while being defended by overworked and underpaid public defenders. That isn't justice.
We have realized years ago that harsh sentences don't reform people and generally just make them more likely to reoffend. If you want an improvement in crime, address poverty. If you want to reduce recidivism, reform the corrections system. Harsh penalties don't work.

 

[entropy]

But the point is that the 2nd Amendment isn't going anywhere short of the collapse of the whole country.

That used to be considered impossible. There are a whole lot of people who are not so sure about that now. I have known for many years that it not only is possible, it was planned many years ago, and barring a pre-emptive counter-revolution, will happen.

You end up with situations like Kalief Browder who was arrested for stealing a backpack, held in Rikers Island for three years and refused to plead guilty. Eventually, prosecutors dropped the charge. 3 years in jail because he refused to plead out and couldn't post bail.
That isn't justice.

It is if everyone is held to it, which is what would be fair. The bail system should never have been instituted in this country.

 

[Ivy Mike]

Guns make is slightly easier for people to murder. If guns did not exist, knives, hammers, bats and pipes will get used.

Nobody says knives, hammers, bats and pipes kill.

How about medical mistakes? That’s the real danger.

People already use knives and hammers and pipes. Those types of weapons are counted in the FBI criminal statistics I posted. There are far less non-gun murders than gun-murders. People use guns because they work and it's easier to kill with a gun.

The point I was originally trying to make is that the 'guns don't kill people' is completely vacuous. While it is technically true, it also doesn't convey any useful information. Nobody is making the claim that a gun is going to hop up on its own and murder someone.