30mag
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cheap.
Don't know what is the fascination is with Russian firearms?
- Thread starter hinton03
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ThrottleJockey72
member
I don't want more, I just want the value of mine to go up!!! So please, throw them away!
5knives
Member
Hmmm,
OP in Germany, ever go hunting in the winter time? In sub-zero weather?
Ever notice you can wear gloves (nice warm gloves) and still use any of the Comblock firearms? How many U.S made firearms (military or sporting) can you do that with?
Ever ask yourself what the Russians were using when they regularly cleaned our clocks in virtually every international rifle match? All through the forties, fifties and most of the sixties. they weren't buying Remchesters and tweaking them.
My Makarov will feed empty cases from the magazines, much as i love the 1911's I've never seen one that could do that, and in over fifty years playing with them I've seen a few.
Issue accuraccy, acceptance criteria for the AKM was prox 12" at 300 meters for 50% hits on human size target, Acceptance for the M-16 was 6" at 100 yds, prox the same as the AK, Mosins and SKS did better, Acceptance for the M14 was ... 6" at 100 yards.
My VEPR in .308 , from the bench w/4 power scope and radway green will shoot 1-1 1/4 moa all day long at 100, 200 and 300 I haven't had a 500 yard range for many years.
Lots of reasons to respect and/or value the Russian firearms.
Don't believe I've repeated any of the (accurate) comments made before me.
I remember during WWII the armchair 'Experts' were guffawing at the little Jap soldiers with their cheap, ugly "little" 6.5 mm rifles, "hardly more than a .22" was one I still remember.
My Dad didn't think they were 'pip-squeak' cartridges, nor did my uncles, my later step-father, and the Guys I served with later, veterans from Guadalcanal on through Korea, didn't laugh at them either. Nor at the Chicom and Russian weapons used in Korea.
That experience helped convince me that the reason we so often find arrogance combined with ignorance is that they are in fact two sides of the same coin.
The Combloc weapons can have a lot going for them, but 'throwaways' they are not.
People that like them should buy, shoot and collect them, people that don't ... shouldn't.
All JMHO, as always, Others MMV, that's fine too!
Regards,
OP in Germany, ever go hunting in the winter time? In sub-zero weather?
Ever notice you can wear gloves (nice warm gloves) and still use any of the Comblock firearms? How many U.S made firearms (military or sporting) can you do that with?
Ever ask yourself what the Russians were using when they regularly cleaned our clocks in virtually every international rifle match? All through the forties, fifties and most of the sixties. they weren't buying Remchesters and tweaking them.
My Makarov will feed empty cases from the magazines, much as i love the 1911's I've never seen one that could do that, and in over fifty years playing with them I've seen a few.
Issue accuraccy, acceptance criteria for the AKM was prox 12" at 300 meters for 50% hits on human size target, Acceptance for the M-16 was 6" at 100 yds, prox the same as the AK, Mosins and SKS did better, Acceptance for the M14 was ... 6" at 100 yards.
My VEPR in .308 , from the bench w/4 power scope and radway green will shoot 1-1 1/4 moa all day long at 100, 200 and 300 I haven't had a 500 yard range for many years.
Lots of reasons to respect and/or value the Russian firearms.
Don't believe I've repeated any of the (accurate) comments made before me.
I remember during WWII the armchair 'Experts' were guffawing at the little Jap soldiers with their cheap, ugly "little" 6.5 mm rifles, "hardly more than a .22" was one I still remember.
My Dad didn't think they were 'pip-squeak' cartridges, nor did my uncles, my later step-father, and the Guys I served with later, veterans from Guadalcanal on through Korea, didn't laugh at them either. Nor at the Chicom and Russian weapons used in Korea.
That experience helped convince me that the reason we so often find arrogance combined with ignorance is that they are in fact two sides of the same coin.
The Combloc weapons can have a lot going for them, but 'throwaways' they are not.
People that like them should buy, shoot and collect them, people that don't ... shouldn't.
All JMHO, as always, Others MMV, that's fine too!
Regards,
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5knives:
"Ever notice you can wear gloves (nice warm gloves) and still use any of the Comblock firearms? How many U.S made firearms (military or sporting) can you do that with?"
I don't see your point; are you saying that the AK should be revered as a wonder gun because it has a large trigger guard? First Com block firearms are not hunting rifles and yes in my 4 years in the 6th Infantry Division in Fairbanks Alaska I hunted in the winter and carried an M16 in the winter. I had no problem accessing the trigger on the M-16 with trigger finger mittens on.
"Issue accuracy, acceptance criteria for the AKM was prox 12" at 300 meters for 50% hits on human size target, Acceptance for the M-16 was 6" at 100 yds, prox the same as the AK"
I have never fired and M-16 variant that could not shoot 2 MOA and most were closer to MOA, conversely I have never seen AK that could shoot the 4 MOA you describe as acceptance criteria for the AKM.
"Ever notice you can wear gloves (nice warm gloves) and still use any of the Comblock firearms? How many U.S made firearms (military or sporting) can you do that with?"
I don't see your point; are you saying that the AK should be revered as a wonder gun because it has a large trigger guard? First Com block firearms are not hunting rifles and yes in my 4 years in the 6th Infantry Division in Fairbanks Alaska I hunted in the winter and carried an M16 in the winter. I had no problem accessing the trigger on the M-16 with trigger finger mittens on.
"Issue accuracy, acceptance criteria for the AKM was prox 12" at 300 meters for 50% hits on human size target, Acceptance for the M-16 was 6" at 100 yds, prox the same as the AK"
I have never fired and M-16 variant that could not shoot 2 MOA and most were closer to MOA, conversely I have never seen AK that could shoot the 4 MOA you describe as acceptance criteria for the AKM.
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wally
Member
True.
In your dreams for anything in "issue" configuration. You've confused the tweaked free floated bull barrel match guns with the M16.
15" group at 300 yards is more than good enough to inflict causalities.
--wally.
30mag
Member
Few people laugh at a gun that is pointed at them.
bottom shelf
Member
I just returned from 2 weeks n Siberia. From what I saw, this is definitely not true.
Acera
Member
Actually for winter shooting, in full mittens (no trigger finger exposed) you can shoot the M-16 where you can't shoot the AK.
Take a tip of a bullet, depress the latch on the trigger guard and swivel it down onto the front of the pistol grip. There you go, easy access to the trigger even with bandaged hands. Pretty clever design.
Take a tip of a bullet, depress the latch on the trigger guard and swivel it down onto the front of the pistol grip. There you go, easy access to the trigger even with bandaged hands. Pretty clever design.
An M39 is a Finnish rifle, although its receiver and bolt are of Russian origin.
I own more than a dozen Russian weapons, long and short, military, hunting and target guns. None of them is junk. Some, like the Saiga M3 and the Mosin-Nagant M44, are not very accurate, but they have other virtues, already stated above. Some are extremely accurate, like the TOZ 35 free pistol. I have shot traditional military pistol matches with a Nagant M95 and a Tokarev TT-33, against Lugers and Lahtis, and won.
Restorer
Member
hinton03, one question I haven't seen asked yet is what specifically were your negative experiences with Russian weapons. For example, my Yugo 59/66 had a failure to feed problem; I fixed it with a $1.00 stainless washer on the gas valve...no problems since then. Were they problems of fit and finish or functional problems?
Just found this thread.
Many shooters here seem to think that most Russian guns are ugly.
I don't happen to agree and I've read the whole thread and wondered why no one has mentioned the TOZ (thanks, finally, ojh) or the Baikal, both of which are scary accurate and responsible for Russians having taken home a respectable number of international medals, including some olympics.
Love my SKS (even though it was made in PRC, it was designed in Russia) and I just acquired a Baikal and expect to love it, too.
Functional, yes, ugly, no way!
w
Many shooters here seem to think that most Russian guns are ugly.
I don't happen to agree and I've read the whole thread and wondered why no one has mentioned the TOZ (thanks, finally, ojh) or the Baikal, both of which are scary accurate and responsible for Russians having taken home a respectable number of international medals, including some olympics.
Love my SKS (even though it was made in PRC, it was designed in Russia) and I just acquired a Baikal and expect to love it, too.
Functional, yes, ugly, no way
!w
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