Don't you think Open Carry is safer than CC?

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I generally can't stand Open Carry. However, it's perfectly legal in my state (VA) to do so. I support others' rights to do so because I don't know if my opinion will shift or not and I want it there should I choose to exercise that right.

I vastly prefer Concealed Carry. I exercise that right and I don't broadcast it.
 
I OC often even though I have my CCW, I just prefer a Galco High Rise holster. To each his own, but follow the first rule of a gunfight!
 
tinygnat219 said:
I vastly prefer Concealed Carry. I exercise that right and I don't broadcast it.
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Is it really a "right" if you have to pay a government to obtain their permission to do something?
 
Posted by easyg: In my humble opinion....

Open carry is like pinning a "shoot me first" sign on your back.
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I think that depends entirely upon the situation.

If the perps have not yet committed themselves to an attack, one would think that seeing an alert open carrier at the scene might well deter their action. Walking into a place in which there are several people carrying openly would very likely if not certainly do so.

The problem arises when the open carrier unwittingly stumbles upon a crime that is already in progress. If the criminal action cannot be aborted or delayed and someone comes in with a gun on his hip, an armed lookout or backup man will have little choice but to shoot a person before he can draw.

Examples? Few but they do exist, and I'm not yet at the point where I have to see historical data to recognize a risk that common sense would identify. As someone has said, would would you do in that situation?

Mas Ayoob wrote of a situation in which a clerk in a stop-and-rob that was being held up blurted out something that identified an arriving person as a policeman, and the guy was cut down immediately. We don't have ope carry here, but a man planning to murder the mayor and council members in a nearby community first shot a policeman outside and supplemented his armament with the officer's gun, and upon entering he council chamber, shot the policeman in the room first. Not a civilian situation? Well, the uniform better identified the targets, but that's about the only meaningful difference. Back to common sense.

Again, common sense does tell one that a perp given a choice will generally avoid messing with anyone known to be armed, but there may be an exception: three perps acting in very close quarters and needing an additional weapon may be willing to take the risk of grabbing one if they see it and think that the chances of success are high. May work, may not.

I would not open carry in town here if I could, but my main reason is the very prevalent and strong anti-gun sentiment around here. Many, many people still hold concealed carry in very high disdain.

I do not oppose the legalization of open carry. In places in which I've seen it I have thought it perfectly acceptable.

If I could carry openly when camping, I would do so. Probably a nice pro shop L frame (I don't have one now).

That brings up another point. (full disclosure: I am old). I believe that a civilian carrying a "barbecue gun" or a Model 1911 or brightly finished Python or N frame with nice grips in a leather holster would probably cause a little less concern than someone with a black H&K in a tactical holster. However, I think that the person's demeanor, expression, and dress would probably make more of a difference.
 
There was a guy on one of the forums who was(is) a prison guard. He said he asked his hard-core inmates if they would try to rob an open carrier for their gun. It was a unanimous NO. They reasoned it was far safer to just buy one for $50 on the corner than go against someone armed. That makes a lot more sense than to believe the bad guys are looking for a gunfight.
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A bit of BS. Street pricing for anything decent is as much or more than normal legal street pricing. I carried "open" for years working on the street. Every incident requires a constant attention to the firearm. As I had a security holster, removal by the uninformed was more difficult that most cc type holsters, many with no retention device at all. In a physical or verbal confrontation, security of the handgun is required for protection.

The training for CC and OC have different requirements in some cases. A case can be made for both in some cases. But I don't see it as a one type fits all.

To say the sight of a handgun causes fear in the criminal element...well, that just isn't the case for some. I've had some dirt bags simply laugh when confronted with the muzzle of a handgun. True, most will pick the easy target, but not all. As in all cases, the fact you have a handgun does not make one invincible.
 
I would be a very happy camper if I could carry openly. Very happy indeed. It is a flipping pain in the neck for me to conceal a handgun. 1) I'm female, 2) I'm curvy but slender, and therefore 3) I'm NOT into wearing 3X tee shirts. Additionally, when I wear a skirt or a dress I'm usually reduced to purse carry because I am not the least interested in a thigh holster. :rolleyes:

I could consistently carry a larger caliber handgun. That is a Good Thing.

Besides, the likelihood that someone is going to sneak close enough to take my gun away seems pretty farfetched. It seems to be more an urban legend on gun sites than anything anybody can substantiate. If I'm wrong, then please post links to substantiation. But if there's only been one or two ever, I still maintain that constitutes "farfetched".

Jan
 
True, most will pick the easy target, but not all. As in all cases, the fact you have a handgun does not make one invincible.
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This thread is now three pages long. Can you point to even one post in this or any other thread where anyone has made such a claim?

Also, open carry is just another method of carry. Don’t make the intellectually faulty argument that because it isn’t applicable in every situation it should be discarded. Every one of us should build a personal safety strategy of which firearms carry is one small part. No part in and of itself can support the whole, but all the parts are interdependent.

So how do you build your plan, by emphasizing rare or unlikely threats? I hope not! If you do (or claim to) then you wouldn’t leave your barricaded position inside your home. If you had to venture out, you’d be wearing full body armor and travel as part of a team. Of course, that sounds silly, right? We build our personal protection strategy to emphasize threats we face, prioritizing the most likely threats above the less likely or rare threats.

For example, in a well organized Hollywood style bank robbery (not the typical 99.8% of the time style bank robberies) open carry might not be the best choice. So do I discard the option of open carry? No, of course not! I am only rarely inside a bank, and coupled with the rarity of that style of robbery it would be foolishness to emphasize that threat above the more likely ones.

In Tacoma, the most likely threat for someone just out and about is, based on listening to a scanner of police calls, not on what the news reports, is the armed mugger. They see someone with an ipod or similar item, stop, pile out of their car, and rob the person using a gun, knife, or just a physical assault; and then take the item. This sort of crime occurs in parks and parking lots as well. Open carry deters this sort of crime, and I can testify to that as a firsthand witness.

Comparing a regular citizen’s open carry to a police officer or armed guard is nonsensical. I do not go towards crime, I move in the other direction. I also don’t grapple with criminal because I have no intention of making an arrest. These are not threats that are high on the priority list.

It’s silly to argue against open carry based on something that might happen, because anything might (and probably will sooner or later) happen. The proper question is, “What is the likelihood that something will happen?” Someone might spit in your eye and give you aids or hepatitis, but do you wear a face shield wherever you go? Someone might drop an anvil on your head from the second floor, then run down and take your wallet (and CC gun). Do you wear a helmet everywhere you go? If you’re going to argue that OC is a poor choice because someone might club you and take it, then you’re arguing for no other reason than that you like to argue.
 
Safer? I have no idea. But I wish that open and concealed carry were both legal and common everywhere. If it was common to see people carrying openly, and common knowledge that many more were carrying concealed, I suspect it would give criminals more pause. I think Heinlein was right: "An armed society is a polite society."
 
Is it really a "right" if you have to pay a government to obtain their permission to do something?
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Even my local gun shop guys (by the way one of them uses UN invasion as a selling point, but that is a different topic) refers to CC as a privilege, not a right.

I'm not sure how openc carry falls in NC, whether being a right or a privilege, but it doesn't require a permit, so I'd say more towards right. However, NC also has this dandy little law that bans carrying firearms off your property during natural disasters or emergencies. Under that logic it would be more of a privilege.


For the range I think open carry is more practical. At some ranges I'm sure if they saw you had a concealed handgun someone there would jump all over you for being unsafe. I got yelled at while at a public range for handling a sight. So its possible.
Camping is another time I'd think open carry is a good idea. Easy access if needed, but I don't think thats legal in most camp grounds in NC.

As far as being safe in general it entirely depends on the circumstances. Armed robbery in a buidling I'd want to be concealed. If it was a mugging on the street or something similar I think open carry would be a good deterrent, probably.
 
TexasRifleman said:
Anyone have any evidence that this actually happens? It very well might but I have never seen anything showing that it does. It's often used as a reason not to open carry but I'm not convinced it has any basis in reality.

Living in Texas I don't have a choice but I would OC if I could.
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I am not sure what evidence could possibly be around as I doubt any study has been conducted. Regardless it makes sense, especially in the scenario the poster gave about a gas station holdup. The first thing a bank robber wants to do is get a jump on the guard and disarm him because he is known to have a gun. If you are standing in line and the bad guys sees a firearm on your side, he is not going to ignore it/you and go about his business, he is going to shoot or disarm you then proceed.
 
Vector said:
The first thing a bank robber wants to do is get a jump on the guard and disarm him because he is known to have a gun. If you are standing in line and the bad guys sees a firearm on your side, he is not going to ignore it/you and go about his business, he is going to shoot or disarm you then proceed
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1. The armed guard: is a known target at a known location chosen ahead of time. Not applicable to a random citizen, at any random location, with a random chance of carrying a gun.

2. Look at my photo on post #35. If a bad guy is looking at each individual person in the bank close enough to pick out my handgun and shoot me because of it, that robber is taking way too much examining each individual customer than paying attention to the tellers and other security at the bank. The object is to grab and go, not stop and frisk customers.

3. The robber is much more likely to notice movement instead of a static object on a belt. It is much more likely that the robber would detect the movement of a person attempting to bring something out of concealment. In this instance - as in the instance referred to in post #30, speed is of the utmost importance. It is vital that the gun be presented and fired before the criminal has time to equate the movement to the action of procuring a gun. Retrieving a gun from under concealment increases movement and draw time and is more likely to draw the attention of the criminal earlier in the process.
 
i honestly dont have an opinion on the matter as some can open carry and others cannot
not just lawful reasoning here there are other factors that make it difficult for one or the other

myself i live in De (an open carry state) I also have my CCDW i have done both
the problem is even tho we are an open carry state a good portion of our population doesnt do it.. so when a non law enforcment officer (or someone who doesnt at least look the part) carries people get nervous (yes i have seen this first hand)
my wife for halloween last year went to her school as a cowboy (shes a 2nd grade teacher) she had a PLASTIC revolver on her side as a prop in full costume and Wa-Wa (convenience store) told her she couldnt wear that in there place of business so she went outside and threw the PLASTIC gun in the car they again told her she could wear that in there store (the holster) she was infuriated and left
that particular wa-was manager didnt aprove of open carry and felt that even an empty toy holster was too far (needless to say he was fired shortly after)

I myself was delivering pizzas in a bad neck of the woods and i had permission from my employer to carry in either open or CC manner
after haveing alot of dirty looks from people wondering why i have a gun on my hip and alot of lost tips im sure i decided to CC from then on
my logic was that the idiots who rob pizza boys would see a firearm and think about someone else but it lost me ALOT of tip money and a few customers

also i have open carried in my regular day life outside of work but people get nervous around a heavily tattooed toothless long facial haired guy with a gun
nvm the fact that if they knew me they would see that i am very rational and attempt to be as safe as humanly possible about firearms.. but thats the key point THEY DONT KNOW ME
so whats to stop them from calling a law enforcment officer and begin my huge hastle of explaining to the rookie how what i am doing is 100% legal here (i used to carry pamphlets about De open carry laws just for those that doubted)

i would love to live in an area that this practice was more common like arizona but here in delaware i almost have to stick with CC because we have a pretty even mix of anti and pro gun people and it is a true gamble who you will encounter

bottom line dad always said " ya never know what you'll see when you leave the house without a gun" so i just dont leave without it unless i have to and its usualy CC
 
I don't see where it is more or less dangerous.

When I open carry, I use a retention holster. I get the occasional stare or weird look. I've heard stories of ignorant managers questioning OC'ers or asking them to leave...without actually knowing state law or the actual business owner's policies. If it isn't posted, I can legally carry in NC; assuming it isn't gov't property or any other property listed in the statutes.

I prefer to ccw. Don’t ask, don’t tell.

That being said, if I were blindsided and physically attacked; I my open carry holster has a retention device and would likely stay on my hip. Most IWB ccw holsters don’t have a thumb break or retention device (outside of your belt’s tension, which is inadequate in a fist fight).

I’d say OC and CCW are equally safe.
 
That brings up another point. (full disclosure: I am old). I believe that a civilian carrying a "barbecue gun" or a Model 1911 or brightly finished Python or N frame with nice grips in a leather holster would probably cause a little less concern than someone with a black H&K in a tactical holster. However, I think that the person's demeanor, expression, and dress would probably make more of a difference.
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It has been my experience that a big shiny stainless steel N-frame draws far more attention than a black polymer autoloader, simply because the vast majority of people don't notice a black gun in a black holster against black pants, at all. But put a shiny revolver in its place, and suddenly a lot of people notice.
 
Welcome back. You haven't expressed an opinion as to all that has been written...
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Actually I appreciate you posting a picture. I think you dressed properly and presented a good image of gun ownership.

On the flip side, what if someone with less sense decides to go open carry in their gold chains and thug bandanna, and their low hanging pants? and just slip the gun down their 12 o'clock position? that would be a horrific image for our country.

There's no open carry here in Texas, but for those of you that live in a state where this is allowed, are most people doing it with proper manner?
 
NavyLT said:
1. The armed guard: is a known target at a known location chosen ahead of time. Not applicable to a random citizen, at any random location, with a random chance of carrying a gun.

2. Look at my photo on post #35. If a bad guy is looking at each individual person in the bank close enough to pick out my handgun and shoot me because of it, that robber is taking way too much examining each individual customer than paying attention to the tellers and other security at the bank. The object is to grab and go, not stop and frisk customers.

3. The robber is much more likely to notice movement instead of a static object on a belt. It is much more likely that the robber would detect the movement of a person attempting to bring something out of concealment. In this instance - as in the instance referred to in post #30, speed is of the utmost importance. It is vital that the gun be presented and fired before the criminal has time to equate the movement to the action of procuring a gun. Retrieving a gun from under concealment increases movement and draw time and is more likely to draw the attention of the criminal earlier in the process.
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My point was more related to the gas station example given by another poster. I just used the bank example to help people envision what a bank robber plans to do. Regardless your picture is a good example of how it is not always easy to spot OC depending on the gun, holster, type of clothing, etc.
Furthermore unless you are carrying on both sides, there is a 50-50 chance the random holdup at a gas station type store the robber will be on the opposite side of the gun unless he was casing the place first.

We do not have the option of OC in Florida so it would not be comfortable to me in public settings. I OC'd helping out at a garage sale once, and everyone either made comments or gave me looks. It is much easier for me to CC and if a scenario were to arise I'd be able to draw my weapon with ease unless the guy was staring right at me. Hopefully I will never have to find out.
 
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