Double Barrel Defense Shotguns?

[Kendal Black]

We may have achieved proof by exhaustion.

My granddaddy kept a double barrel behind the door. I have an automatic.

If one is determined to go the double barrel route, quality is better than features. If the fancy ejectors hang up when you need them, they are of no use at all, so a good gun without the features is better than a cheap gun with bells on her toes.

 

[tkopp]

I have one of the two-trigger 20" Stoeger side by sides. Thanks to the length of the stock it's no shorter than any of my 'defensive' rifles or shotguns, all of which come with super-short stocks. It has plenty of other things going for it though; it's lightweight, breaks down into 3 pieces no longer than 20" each, shoots clays perfectly well, and can put a slug on target at 25 yards from an unsupported standing position without much trouble. Thanks to its portability I could see bringing it broken-down on a trip to safeguard a campsite or a seedy motel room.

 

[Kendal Black]

Thanks to its portability I could see bringing it broken-down on a trip to safeguard a campsite or a seedy motel room.

That is the best stated case. Best knapsack and suitcase gun ever invented.

 

[Cokeman]

Don't O/U double barrels usually come apart into two pieces pretty easily?

 

[armoredman]

CZ has a nice 20" 12ga coach gun, a Turkish import rebranded, Huglu IIRC. I wish they had a 20ga version my wife could use.

 

[Kendal Black]

Don't O/U double barrels usually come apart into two pieces pretty easily?

Same deal. Unclip the dingus on the underside of the forearm, remove the wooden part, tip the barrels forward and lift. You're done.

There are variations, but this is the usual scheme.

 

[Cokeman]

It would be nice to get one like the Escort and get the long and short barrels.

 

[Cokeman]

CZ has a nice 20" 12ga coach gun, a Turkish import rebranded, Huglu IIRC. I wish they had a 20ga version my wife could use.

?

 

[RugerMcMarlin]

ZZZZ

 

[Panzercat]

@Cokeman

Sorry about that. Thought I there were a few O/Us in that link.
That said, kendal found the shotty i was initially looking for, but forgot the manufacturer's name. At least you're getting a better reception than the last time this topic was broached.

I think the end synopsis there was the pawnshop being the best option :\

 

[Cokeman]

I looked at it last night and again this morning. And I think I like it, a subtle artistic blend of traditional O/U, and Liberal offending ugly black gun. Yup,
I want one.
Do dey make it wit pistol grip?

Which one?

 

[RugerMcMarlin]

zzzz

 

[Cokeman]

Did you fall asleep?

 

[goon]

The thing I don't like about the Stoegers is that the rifle sights on them seem to be permanently fixed.
At least give me windage adjustment. That way, no matter what, I can zero one barrel for slugs.

Overall, I'm one of those guys who'd like a SxS hammer gun for the traveling gun role. It bring as lot to the table and I'd like not having to stress any springs. When you break a hammerless gun down you leave the action cocked - I'm not aware of any way to lower the hammers or to quickly recock them before reassembling in the event that you needed the gun working really quick like.

Are the Baikal hammer guns still imported/available?

 

[MCgunner]

I bought a Felix Sarasqueta 12 gauge SxS in 1971. I still have it. It still shoots great. I've stored it mostly unloaded for all these years and there's nothing wrong with the hammer springs. If it ever breaks, it's a wall hanger, because there are no parts for it. I don't use it anymore, anyway. It's not steel shot compatible and I have better dove guns and it kicks like hell, anyway. I like my SxS 20 or my gas operated 12 gauge Winchester for doves now days and have choices for waterfowl.

Anyway, I'd not be concerned with the hammer springs. I've heard on this board, though, that you could pull the triggers on snap caps on most guns like my Spartan coach gun, take the forearm off, load it, put the forearm back on, and the hammers would not be cocked. You then must open the action and close it with the forearm on to cock the hammers. I've yet to try this, though, as one of these days I'm going to make me some snap caps from spent brass and shoe goo, just haven't gotten around to it.

 

[MCgunner]

I just got curious and went and found a couple of spent 20 gauge cases from last dove season to snap my Spartan on with the forestock off and, sure 'nuf, the above procedure works. It is now stored under my bed hammers down loaded with 3 buck. Just gotta remember before I have to use it, to break the action and close it and I'm good to go. Safely stored, not even an exposed hammer it can fall on.

 

[RugerMcMarlin]

I would be in serious trouble with an uncocked hammerless double, mostly because I've never even heard of this problem with leaving them cocked. I might be in a hurry when I'm going to get it. I can see pulling the trigger twice then whacking BG with it ,before I remember why it won't go off. At the time, they were invented, hammerless doubles were viewed as an improvement over hammer guns. I can see the arguement in favor of hammer guns being left uncocked. Trying to do that with a hammerless gun is backing up.
With a hammerless gun it requires the leverage of opening the gun to cock it.
The springs are gobs plenty heavy enough. I will leave mine, cocked.

I guess its like these people that are scared of cocked and locked 1911s. some guys leave them hammer down/empty chamber. some leave them cocked and locked, and ready to rock.

 

[Pfletch83]

You forgot to finish the rest of the line....Doc.

Not to derail the topic,.. but how short can a break action scatter gun's barrel be modified to a shorter (but still legal) length?

would 18.5 with a full stock be fine or would it need to be a 19 or 20 inch barrel (just wondered)?

 

[RugerMcMarlin]

18.5 if it still has a full stock. only needs to be 27" overall.

 

[1911Tuner]

Gunner...Before you close a hammerless shotgun on loaded chambers, ya might wanna check to see if the firing pins are protruding through the breechface. If they do, you may be in for a nasty surprise when you close it.

 

[MCgunner]

Done thought of that, Tuner, and they're not protruding. Apparently the Baikal has rebounding hammers.

With a hammerless gun it requires the leverage of opening the gun to cock it.
The springs are gobs plenty heavy enough. I will leave mine, cocked.

There's not a leverage problem with my two doubles, weight of the barrels will drop and cock the guns. However, in 40 years of hunting with hammerless double guns, cheap ones at that, I've NEVER seen a safety fail. Yeah, there's always a first time, I guess, but I think you're safer with a cocked and locked hammerless than an exposed hammer gun which might fall on a hammer and bust the sear and go off. Personal opinion. But, I kinda like the hammers down thing on mine. I think opening and closing it before the action starts won't be a problem for me since I can walk and chew gum pretty well. I'm going to store it that way for now, anyway. It's a safe room gun and we have an alarm system on the house (saves on insurance), too, to give me time to get ready before someone can break in two door locks with the alarm going off. It'll be noisy and I'm a pretty light sleeper.

Personal call as to how you store your shotgun, but I don't think, in light of the fact that I can store the gun hammer down as an option, that a hammer gun has ANY advantage over a hammerless as a home defense shotgun. It's faster to break and close the gun that cock two hammers and with the hammers down, if you're the paranoid type, the gun is safer than having exposed hammers that the gun can fall on and go off even though the gun isn't cocked. For me, since I don't do cowboy shooting and do a lot of bird hunting with my doubles, hammer guns are worthless. Give me the hammerless and I'll decide how I wanna store it.

 

[moonpie]

i have personally had two safety issues with cocked and loaded guns when i was younger and dumber. the first was with a 22 bolt action remington the second some years later with a stevens 12gauge double. a worn sear and firing pin on the rifle caused it to "bump fire" when jarred. a similar problem with the 1970s vintage shotgun resulted in both barrels firing with the pull of one trigger. we thought we had a handle on this by firing the wild side first , but a distinct CLICK when closing the action on an empty chamber quickly retired the gun for repairs. twenty years of industrial maintenance have taught me that any part can break, any link can sever, and any safety device can fail. the scars on my body prove the "safety between my ears" needs to be checked regularly for proper function. no advice is offered or implied . this is just an "it happened to me" post

 

[RugerMcMarlin]

Yeah, thats what I meant, I might be chewing gum. ja

 

[Vince45]

I used to be an R/O at a range and we had a speed shoot on bowling pins with pumps ,
plenty of people short stroked them from the pressure of competition let alone a home invasion. If youre gunna have a double it should be hammerless and ejector to get those next two cartridges in and ready to shoot again if required . With the Stoeger you
could mount a mini torch on the top rail and a bayonet on the bottam rail !

 

[MCgunner]

One reason I like using my hunting guns for home defense is familiarity with LOTS of use. I don't always NEED to practice as during hunting season I am putting lotsa rounds down range, and then there's the club country doubles shoots. Short stroking my pump wouldn't be a problem for me as i'm used to shooting "under pressure" of marauding ducks. I know the ducks ain't shootin' back, but neither is the paper in a match. I do a LOT of hunting and have been for 50 years. Familiarity breeds confidence.

But there's less going on with the double and for me that's a good thing as I can walk and chew gum, but toss in pumping a shotgun and, well, I'm not sure.... Anyway, I'm quite familiar with both and own both, but shoot my double a little more often now days as I hunt doves a lot and like to play with it on country doubles off season. Also shoot a 10 gauge H&R on geese, a break open if only a single shot. It has a hammer, though. Well, there ya go, spit out that gum....

Moonpie, you speak wisdom and that's why I'm storing the gun hammers unsprung now that I know it can be done. It's a new gun, fairly new, but mechanical things CAN fail. Just because they haven't for me, don't mean it's impossible. On the hammerless gun stored hammers down, cocking is a simple flick of the lever, close the action again. Don't have to reach up for two hammers, seems faster to me, though I have no timer nor hammer gun to prove anything. At any rate, stored hammers down, it's safer than an exposed hammer gun in that there are no hammers exposed for it to fall over on or fall on if dropped.

Last thought, even when i've stored my double loaded, cocked, and locked, I've stored it under the bed, lying on the ground where it can't fall, barrels pointing at the wall. Yeah, loaded guns get my safety hackles up, regardless, and I have the unsprung gun in that same stored position. No sense giving brother Murphy a break, eh?