Double check everything when you are training...embarrassing story

[joel.favre]

Well, I did something extremely stupid today.
I was at home, alone, my wife and son had gone out to get groceries. I figured that while they were gone I would go over what I would do in case of a bump in the night, since this is new house and I am not 100% familiar with it yet.
I got out my home defense gun, which stays loaded and I dropped the magazine. Now right here is my first mistake. I know that my weapon is loaded, with one in the chamber, but I was expecting an important call, so when the phone rang right then, I put the pistol down, without fully clearing it and answered the phone. When I was done with the call, I came back to the bed where I had placed to pistol and, seeing the magazine out, didnt think anyting more about it.
I grabbed the pistol, and a new flashlight, a surefire G2 that I wanted to get a feel for and holding both of them, I started to "clear" the house. The Surefire has a momentary switch on the back, so the plan was to use the momentary to illuminate the target only when I had to, so the flashlight in my left hand, pistol in my right I came to the hallway and, having already decided that I would "see something, illuminate, and fire" I proceeded to blow a 9mm hole in the wall.
Now, this is not surprising, because obviously I hadn't cleared the weapon properly. What did surprise me is that I didn't use the flashlight...at all, and I had not meant to "fire" until I got a good sight picture on the picture on the wall. So now I have a problem, I basically did something really dumb (not properly clearing the weapon) but I also uncovered a glaring fault with my own reactions and coordination regarding my flashlight. I am now not 100% sure that I could reliably use the light and gun together, because what I think happened is that instead of pressing with my thumb on the light switch, my brain sent the wrong signal and I jerked the trigger. I am not real sure what to make of this. Not only is it incredibly embarrassing, for the hole in my wall, but also it is making me doubt myself and realize that I need much more training and practice with the use of a light and weapon together, something I have not done before today. This is making me think about what would happen if I do hear something in the night that turns out to be my son or something, and instead of shining a flashlight at him, I put a similar sized hole in him?
Overall, a very disconcerting and unhappy day for me.

 

[Old Shooter]

Well, you practice in order to learn and I guess you learned something from this. This is one case where a magazine disconnect safety would have done some good.

Practice some more and think about your actions in clearing your house, the comment about putting a hole in your son is worth deep consideration. A lot of folks recommend safe room, hunker down and wait for the 911 response or for the potential BG to make a move of some sort.

I'd leave the hole in the wall unpatched. If a BG is sneaking around and sees it he may have second thoughts about proceeding any farther.

 

[joel.favre]

Old Shooter:
Yeah, this has really put some things on the table to consider and be aware of. As far as a safe room and hunkering down, that is the plan, my wife and I both go to my sons room, which is the next door down the hall, and wait there with the phone and the gun on the door. The plan doesn't always work though, so I try to keep in my mind that I may run into a BG on the way to his room.

 

[jhallrv4]

Furthermore, I'm guessing that as you said you "jerked" the trigger, the 9mm hole isn't anywhere near where you expected it to be. Hey, I would have most likely done the same thing. NONE of us train enough.

Jeff

And, aren't you glad the family wasn't home? I know I'D NEVER hear the end of that one. Heck, even now, the spouse says EVERY time I forget the tiniest detail..."and you FLY"? I'm getting SO tired of that. She's right, of course, still...

 

[unwise11]

did your mother ever tell you not to play with guns?
Mine still does, as im 14. but i practice clearing when alone. ususally without pulling the trigger, always unloaded.
you couldve killed someone.
and if going to practice indoors keep slide back or cylinder open.

 

[joel.favre]

jhall:
Yes, the hole is far from where I was aiming, since I am nearly 100% certain that in my mind I was turning on the flashlight, not pulling the trigger.
JDmorris: I understand what you are getting at, but I do insist on the "training how we fight" attitude I am immersed in, so I dont believe that it would be of as much value to me to simply have a weapon with the slide locked back. DRY firing is also a large part of my drills, which is hard to do with the slide locked(or a round in the chamber).

 

[unwise11]

well, I dry fire a bit, but after removing the bolt of my bolt action, checking the shotgun, or double checking dads 9mm.
so I am also guilty.
I'm about to buy a G2 aswell, how do you like yours?

 

[amd6547]

My HD weapon is always loaded...even when it isnt. If I clear it and set it down for a moment, I check chamber when I pick it up again. Always.

 

[Six]

I feel that spending $15 on a yellow plastic blade-tech practice barrel is one of the best investments I ever made.

Secondly, I really like having a weapon mounted light.

Just out of curiosity, with your flashlight in your left hand, was the left hand supporting your right hand a la Harries?

 

[Old krow]

If I clear it and set it down for a moment, I check chamber when I pick it up again. Always.

My g/f has this rule. Of course, since she has the rule I also have the rule. If for whatever reason the gun leaves our hands it gets checked. I personally think that it's a good practice to get into.

For the flashlight, I go to an indoor range since their lighting seems to be a little dimmer normally. It's probably not "great" training, but it helps me a little with familiarization. I figure that I'll go in there one evening and ask them if they will turn them down even more to practice.

 

[mustang_steve]

Practicing a clear with your real firearm is bad news. You should get a polymer replica for such wargames. Or at the least get an airsoft of your real pistol.

The other is to never leave a pistol loaded without the mag in it. I'm such a sitckler for this that I only own pistols that have slide-stops. If the mag is out, the slide is locked back or the pistol is stripped down. No exceptions. this way if it's not stripped or locked back, I assume it's loaded. This is the safest operating mode IMO.

 

[Oyeboten]

Well, you did not hit anynoe or hit a Water line in the Wall, so...


Totally Classic mis-hap when it comes to practicing with an Automatic and not remembering to thoroughy clear the Pistol first, or, to totally inspect for 'clear' any time it is set down or re-Holstered for a moment.


Many years ago, I shot my TV...had been doing unloaded practice dry-fire draw-and-fire exercises, using characters on the TV show that was on...was all done, replaced the Magazine, chambered a round, set the Safety, re-Holstered...then, forgot I was 'all done', resumed 'practce' and, of course, "BANG!" Got the TV.


These are constructive learning experiences, and, also, they affirm the 'Rule' that one never points an Arm at any one, nor at Windows, when dry fire 'practicing'.


Glad you and yours are okay!


A little Spackle, and the Wall is no worse for wear...and, a valuable Lesson learned with dramatic emphacis.

 

[PROTEUS]

We learn from good and bad experiances. Fishing it's funny but with a handgun it's scarry. I have never had a mishap or close call. Knock, Knock. I have carried a handgun for several decades. I still have to check myself at all times while handeling a gun. Following your own safety rules are paramont. Do the same thing every time without fail. Index that trigger finger at all times. IDPA may be your best move. It will teach gun control, clearing a wepon and make you base reactions on situations. Im glad your OK Joel! Practice, Practice, Practice.


Making it a better world, one scumbag at a time!

 

[uspJ]

I'm not going to be one of those guy's who's going to lecture you about the potential disaster you had. You allready know that, have recognized your mistakes and realize you need more training. As long as you continue to train you'll be doing more than many who would look down on you for your error.

The only good thing to come from AD/ND's is that is certainly makes you take a look at your safety handling alot more seriously.

I've been there myself and luckily my pride was the only thing injured...ok, that and my night stand:banghead:.

 

[788Ham]

Several years ago, I pulled one about like you have. My neighbor across the street was over with his son we had talked about revolvers previously when fishing. I'd gone and got the Ruger SBH 357, unloaded it before coming into the room. I handed it to Chuck, he looked it over and handed it to his son Eric, when thru looking at it, Eric handed it back, we talked some more. I was going to put the SBH away, first I reloaded it, went to lower the hammer, it stopped, thinking the hammer was all the way down, I released my thumb, BOOM! I shot a hole thru 4 large books in the bookcase, thru the floor and into the crawl space below. Unbeknownst to me, the hammer had a large burr on the inside, hanging up, took it to a gunsmith and had the burr smoothed, then sold it, I never trusted it after that! Chuck didn't think much of it either! LOL

 

[bigfatdave]

I am now not 100% sure that I could reliably use the light and gun together, because ... ...

I'm not sure you can use the gun alone.

Pick up a gun, check the status of the chamber - EVERY TIME

Get some snap-caps or a dummy gun / training barrel, and never, ever, for any reason, in any circumstance, assume a gun is not loaded.
No mechanical device can compensate for checking the chamber, no special storage method* can tell you a gun is NOT loaded. A storage method for guns that ARE loaded may be practical, never fool yourself into thinking a special storage method means "not loaded" for a functional gun.

*possible exceptions: disassembled works, and maybe a chamber flag that holds the gun open enough to see the chamber

 

[joel.favre]

To all, thanks for the responses and suggestions,
JDMorris: The G2 is nice, but I would actually recommend a weapon mounted light, along with a backup light of the mag variety. After my incident today I believe that may be the direction I take. I say Maglite over surefire simply because as a backup light it doesnt need the extreme power to blind an assailant, and mags last much longer on two more available and less expensive batteries.
788Ham: Malfunctioning guns never command the same level of trust from me either, I have had to return weapons to the arms room for small things, and I didnt feel safe with them after that.
bigfatdave: I am also of the opinion that a HD weapon needs a light to be of real use. I know the mistake I made with the chamber and feel very stupid about that, and I think maybe snap caps might help with my peace of mind, since that gives a second visual reference that the weapon is safe, since I dont own any red ammunition.
Lesson learned thankfully no one was hurt except my pride, and I hope that you can all learn from my mistake and not do the same stupid things I did.

 

[Bovice]

^I knew somebody would come galloping in on their high horse.

Remember what happened, remember why it happened, and don't let it happen again. It looks like you've got that under control.

I think you should separate trigger control/fundamentals training from tactics training when you're not on a range. Why do you HAVE to do both at the same time inside the house? Like others have said, use a dummy gun or an inert training barrel for when you practice your sweep. Practice dry-firing separately. Put both together when you're on a range. If you do some looking, you can probably find a place near you where it's acceptable to do just that. That way if the gun goes off, you can play it off like you meant to and save some face!

 

[bigfatdave]

bigfatdave: I am also of the opinion that a HD weapon needs a light to be of real use. I know the mistake I made with the chamber and feel very stupid about that, and I think maybe snap caps might help with my peace of mind, since that gives a second visual reference that the weapon is safe, since I don't own any red ammunition.

I re-read my above post, and it may have come off a bit overly rude, rather than snarky.
I only intended a bit of rudeness, and I'm glad you took the real point about putting bright red non-ammunition things into the chamber well.

Lesson learned thankfully no one was hurt except my pride, and I hope that you can all learn from my mistake and not do the same stupid things I did.

So, the burning question ... where did the bullet come to rest?
And how loud was it in the house?

 

[joel.favre]

Bigfatdave: no issue, I assumed you were sticking highroad, and the bullet went through two layers of sheetrock (both sides of a wall), two of my wife's aprons (I am still hearing about that), a thin interior door, hit the backsplash in the kitchen and came to rest on the counter.
LOUD.
Bovice: very good advice, I do believe that those two sides of practicing will never be combined again.

 

[W.E.G.]

You screwed-up big time.

You know you did it.

Everybody else knows you did it.

There is no epiphany, or profound realization to be gained.

Count your blessings and don't do it again.

You have to be a lot better than you were today.

BTW, language like "my brain sent the wrong signal" is a cop-out from accepting full responsibility.
You chose to leave a round in the gun.
THAT was the primary mistake that led to this accident.

 

[joel.favre]

W.E.G.: You know, I am really trying to read your post and see what there is to be gained there, but I can't see anything, rather similar to what you seem to find in my situation. I am aware I made quite a large mistake, and I think that I made that point clear. I fail to see anywhere that I try to shirk from the responsibility of my own actions. I guess that some people refuse to learn from others mistakes and prefer to act as if they don't make their own.
I really appreciate all the tips and advice from the other posters, but fail to see the contribution you have made to this discussion of a bad situation.

 

[bigfatdave]

If you're looking for an upside ...

free peephole! Now you can know what's going on in the kitchen.
Dishes being done? Stay away!
Cookies coming out of the oven? Get in there!

 

[Zoogster]

I always check a gun that has been out of my hands.

Memory is like that, you have loaded, unloaded, cleared, and done such simple mundane tasks so many times it would be easy to even improperly recall doing something like unloading it another time as having just done it.


I go a step further than just cycling the action, I like to either visually look into the action or feel the chamber with my finger.
Extractors don't always work, you can rack a slide or cycle an action and have the ammo remain in the chamber. Rare, but it happens.

I am now not 100% sure that I could reliably use the light and gun together, because what I think happened is that instead of pressing with my thumb on the light switch, my brain sent the wrong signal and I jerked the trigger.

Not at all uncommon of a hazard, and a very good topic for situation and tactics.
This is the exact reason they do not have less lethal options mixed with lethal options on a single platform for police even though it would be quicker and more convenient.
Like beanbag rounds in an underslung barrel on a regular carbine. Or a gun that can shoot taser darts with another button and fire bullets with the trigger.
Rail mounted tasers, rail mounted beanbag or tear gas launchers etc
Such platforms and accessories have been designed, and they typically fail to sell because they will get people killed.
As you can see even just expecting to turn on or off a light (or laser) while pointing a gun at or around people can result in firing the gun instead.
There is known cases where police carrying a taser in a holster have even drawn their real gun and shot people, intending drawn the taser and shoot them.
(The real number of such accidents is higher than official record, because admitting lethal force was an accident results in prison time and loss of a career, while claiming the accidental lethal force was intentional to counter a perceived lethal threat may not.)


Now consider you were calm, knew what you were doing, and had no stress up until you fired that gun.
Far easier to do the right thing than in a real situation.
In fight or flight response blood leaves the forebrain and digestive tract to go to muscles and releasing chemicals, the forebrain that controls a lot of your thought process is accessed far less and is more sluggish.
This means you are in essence "dumber" when in fight or flight mode.
A person that can operate their flashlight or other buttons and switches while not operating the wrong one perfectly in training can fire the gun by complete accident in fight or flight mode.
It can work 100% of the time in training, and never be known as a potential hazard until done in the field.
In fight or flight mode the signal from your starved brain can easily become "manipulate gun" when it was intended to be "manipulate the flashlight switch/button on the gun". Hand/finger manipulates the gun and the gun fires.

When you are pointing a gun at someone while under stress planning to operate any other buttons or switches on that weapon is a recipe for disaster. Whether it is the safety, a light switch, a laser, etc

Yet many people plan and train to do exactly that while completely calm, without stress or adrenaline, and with a forebrain operating at 100%.

 

[23Glock]

Well, not much to be said about the ND. Just be glad you didn't ask a member of your family to hide and play "bad guy". Clearing a weapon is a mindset that needs to be learned. I'd recommend Front Sight's 4 Day Defensive Handgun class (or some similar school) which would give you two things (among many others): 1) ingrain administrative handling of your weapon, 2) low-light training.
Front Sight teaches a "chamber check/Mag check" administrative procedure after every load and unload. You do it SO much over the course of 4 days that it becomes unconscious.
I recently took a friend to this class who is a LEO. After the first day he said "The first thing I'm going to jettison when I get home is this stupid 'chamber check/mag check'". After 4 days it became so unconscious that he said he now doesn't feel good about picking up his duty weapon until he does a chamber check/mag check. Again, it's a mindset that needs to be learned.
As far as low-light tactics - here again, training. Use of a flashlight in a tactical scenario is NOT intuitive. You have to learn how to use it properly. You could write a book on low-light tactics, so it's impossible to cover here. Suffice it to say, you need to learn the layout of your house in the dark because the flashlight is only on for 2 seconds to scan for a threat. Then it goes off and you MOVE. Operating a flashlight and your trigger finger at the same time requires training and practice. You will NOT be able to do it under stress unless you have practiced it to unconscious proficiency - even then, it's dicey.