Drill Rifles for Civil Air Patrol Cadet Honor Guard

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farmallmta

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This may be a bit off-topic, but it IS rifle related so I hope you'll forgive the modest meander away from the intent of this forum.

My son is the Cadet Commanding Officer of our local Civil Air Patrol Cadet Program. He would like to upgrade their Honor Guard from silly little toy "rifles" made in China to actual, albeit non-firing, rifles. They perform Guard duties and Ceremonial duties on Veterans Day and Memorial Day, as well as in local parades.

Everybody in the local CAP squadron is hoping for military rifles of American manufacture. Unfortunately, he has been unsuccessful in getting donations of deactivated rifles of any type through the US Government programs. CMP sells rifles that would do nicely, but for WAY more than the kids will be able to afford. CMP has not been willing to donate any rifles for free or reduced price. The uniformed services provide drill rifles to ROTC/JROTC units, but, they tell us, none to services besides their own even if that means destroying deactivated drill M-14's/M-1's/1903's that have been returned as surplus from their ROTC or Veterans groups. So far we've been unable to get the Air Force to donate drill rifles to a non-ROTC unit such as CAP. Which I find odd, but that's the status as of now.

My question is, does anybody know of any donors of true rifles (non-firing is fine) of American manufacture? Does anybody have a magic telephone number of some mysterious/shadowy source within a government organization that we could contact? Anybody have 10 or so drill rifles laying around they want to go to a good home? LOL. Anybody have $4G laying around they need to get rid of and need a nice tax deduction? LOL.

Right now it looks like the best they'll be able to do for cost reasons is Hungarian Steyr M95 rifles in nice condition. They'd have to buy them, but at a price they can conceivably raise donations towards. They ARE nice rifles and look good, but they're not American arms, which is a bit of a downer since the CAP is honoring American servicemen and women.

Any helpful pointers or ideas are very welcome! Thanks in advance for anything you can shed light on!
 
My question is, does anybody know of any donors of true rifles (non-firing is fine) of American manufacture?
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last year the CMP had deactivated drill rifles. id either contact them, or go straight to the CAP to see if they can help you

dont buy the Hungarians. its just not proper to act as essential an agent of the state, carrying a foreign rifle even if its just parade
 
Yes there is a way that M-1 Garands can be obtained free of cost from
the Army. They are set to shoot 30-06 blanks and even clips and blanks
were free. I obtained six for a Marine Corps League Honors squad, and
provide Military Honors by request for fallen vets. They were pretty rough
looking. The metal reparkerized, and the beat up wood stocks were
replaced with new Boyds. These stocks were for the most part (2 needed
a small amount of wood removed from the trigger group area) drop ins.
It has been several years back, but the orginial request was processed
by the Army Transport and Storage in Mich. They are mailed from the
Alabama arsenal. The rifles still remain property of the US Army and need
to be keep in a secure Armory. I have that info packed somewhere, but
will be busy until mid winter.:D
 
hoppy sez:

_____________________________

last year the CMP had deactivated drill rifles. id either contact them, or go straight to the CAP to see if they can help you

dont buy the Hungarians. its just not proper to act as essential an agent of the state, carrying a foreign rifle even if its just parade

_____________________________

Check out these completed CMP auctions:

1903 drill rifle in terrible shape: $2,505 final bid price. Ouch!

http://auction.odcmp.com/auctions/detail.asp?id=33&pic=0#img

and this one:
M1 plugged rifle, final bid $4,210 OUCHHHHH!!!!
http://auction.odcmp.com/auctions/detail.asp?id=35


Yes, it's ironic that some American Honor Guard squads honoring American Servicemen/women must use either toy rifles or foreign rifles because the government and collectors are more interested in selling off the obsolete rifles, even if just wallhangers, for very high prices. I asked several veterans what they'd think of the reproduction (toy) M1 vs. a decent foreign rifle and they agreed that a real foreign rifle would be okay with them as long as it wasn't of a type that had been used against Americans.

So far as I know the HUNGARIAN Steyr M95 was NOT used against Americans in WWI. Anybody know differently? In fact the point has been made to me that the Austrians using the Austrian M95 were Germany's ally while the Hungarians with the HUNGARIAN M95 fought AGAINST the Austrians and Germans in de-facto alliance with the US. It seems the Austrian/Hungarian conflict was something of an issue with respect to WWI. So I hear. ;)
 
OOhrah sez:
_______________________________
Yes there is a way that M-1 Garands can be obtained free of cost from
the Army. They are set to shoot 30-06 blanks and even clips and blanks
were free. I obtained six for a Marine Corps League Honors squad, and
provide Military Honors by request for fallen vets. They were pretty rough
looking. The metal reparkerized, and the beat up wood stocks were
replaced with new Boyds. These stocks were for the most part (2 needed
a small amount of wood removed from the trigger group area) drop ins.
It has been several years back, but the orginial request was processed
by the Army Transport and Storage in Mich. They are mailed from the
Alabama arsenal. The rifles still remain property of the US Army and need
to be keep in a secure Armory. I have that info packed somewhere, but
will be busy until mid winter.
_________________

Yes, we contacted this disburser of M1's... BY LAW they can only donate them to RECOGNIZED VETERANS GROUPS. I know, I know... contact our local congressman. Hey! I just thought of something! Contact our local congressman! WooHOOO!!! Thanks, guys! We'll try it! (I'm not being sarcastic at all! We seriously hadn't thought of doing this and kicking the problem around with you guys dredged the idea up! Very seriously: THANKS! Fresh thinking is what we needed!)
 
Some old VFW post have honor guard rifles sitting around in the back room.
A few years ago I saw a pile of non-firing 1903 springfields in the back of one post.

One problem is that many of the CAP kids are height challanged, so full size rifles cause a few problems.
 
So far as I know the HUNGARIAN Steyr M95 was NOT used against Americans in WWI. Anybody know differently? In fact the point has been made to me that the Austrians using the Austrian M95 were Germany's ally while the Hungarians with the HUNGARIAN M95 fought AGAINST the Austrians and Germans in de-facto alliance with the US. It seems the Austrian/Hungarian conflict was something of an issue with respect to WWI. So I hear.
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M95 continued service into WW2 and was used by German, Austrian and other police and rear echelon units. its not whether or not it was used in anger against us. i would advice against even using a SMLE when (modern) Britain was never our enemy.

just a quick history, good luck getting rifles

Some old VFW post have honor guard rifles sitting around in the back room.
A few years ago I saw a pile of non-firing 1903 springfields in the back of one post
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those may or not still be property of uncle sam.
 
I tried to do this years ago for my cadets.

It was very difficult and i never accomplished it during my career do to opposition from other senior officers and parents with gun phobias.

National HQ has a pretty thick reg book on the whole thing too.

I'd suggest you try asking for donations of old springfields or something similar.

Realize though that the gun basically needs to be destroyed in order for it to be used as a drill rifle for CAP.

There are also grants that you can ask for for such items.

Also, try asking VFWs or maybe do a fund raiser. Super patriotic folks will pretty much throw money at you for that kind of goal.

Good luck.
 
All the drill rifles I have ever run across were in fact still property of the US government and no matter how rotten their condition were accountable and returnable when no longer required or serviceable. Since the GCA 1968, the sole source of any former US weapon to any civilian or civilian organization has been what we now know as CMP and they're not giving anything away. Good luck with your kids, but a military honor guard is just that: military. We signed the blank check and it wasn't cashed for the full amount. If you can hear Taps and see how to walk away you don't get it.
 
Glad to see a few CAP'er on THR!

If you can still find a couple of those $299 drill 1903's, snag them. They're the best deal going. One of the gunshops here are buying them and converting them back to firing pieces for another $300 tacked on to the price.

CAP does NOT qualify for drill M1/M14 rifles like JROTC/military schools can get. The idea alone sends NHQ and the Air Force Liasion types screaming like gay Frenchmen. BTDT when I was my Wing's Supply Officer.

The new CAP Volunteer shows one color guard using Ruger 10/22's with the European (Mannlicher) stocks!
 
if you have any contact info for the office that would be incharge of it with the air force my father is a retired colnel he might be able to pull some rank and try to make it happen

if you send me the info ill ask him if hell do it
 
The idea alone sends NHQ and the Air Force Liasion types screaming like gay Frenchmen.
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You just made me shoot beer out my nose.......

Having served in 3 branches of the military and now being a CAP check pilot, squadron commander, YOU ARE DEAD ON TARGET.
Talk about people in love with a regulation book.
 
Spaatz Cadet here. Too bad the Squadron fell apart around here over 10 years ago. I quit when i went senior member and command would not give me the Captan promotion. Some crap about being active enough, gee was working full time, treaching a privete pilot ground school and going to college. CAP in my area went down hill fast after that.

Anyways i would think the deactived 1903's would be the best bet.


Brion
 
Another thing i toyed around with was the idea of Aluminum airsoft AR-15 shells with the furniture painted white.

That way they'd have a nice drill rifle look, be non-functioning, but still have some realistic heft to them.
 
Flyboy73 Spaatz Cadet here. Too bad the Squadron fell apart around here over 10 years ago. I quit when i went senior member and command would not give me the Captan promotion. Some crap about being active enough, gee was working full time, treaching a privete pilot ground school and going to college. CAP in my area went down hill fast after that.

Anyways i would think the deactived 1903's would be the best bet.


Brion
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Hey, Brion,

Congrats on your Spaatz award. My son is 16 and is on a good trajectory to getting that very tough to achieve reward, also. I find it hard to believe that your squadron wouldn't take the opportunity to snag you for future heavier involvement instead of shrugging you off. Sometimes leaders aren't very perceptive or far-seeing. My hope is that you will continue in CAP to the best of your abilities and work to put new strength into your squadron.

CAP is a great program for aviation safety and for young people. But organizations do tend to wax and wane. Ups and (unfortunately) downs do happen. Our own cadet program has been very sleepy but my son is working hard to bring it back to life... with success, too. Initiatives like getting real rifles to drill with instead of totally lame toys that embarrass the cadets is helping get the cadets fired up. Also, he's really pushing for an active marksmanship program for his squadron. It's surprising how little lip service is paid within CAP to marksmanship, and also how little actual effort is made within CAP leadership to promote it. Sorry to say, but even here in Texas "guns" seems to be something of a dirty word within CAP upper echelons. Got to get that changed! We're doing our bit!
 
I havn't been a member of CAP since 1994. Had alot of good time's when i was a member. Soloed at a CAP flight encampment in 1990. IACE to germany in 1992. Too bad CAP went under around my area. The composite squardon i belonged to is no longer there and i think the only squardon around is a cadet squardon over 20 miles away.

Maybe someday when my kids are older and want to join.

Brion
 
The new CAP Volunteer shows one color guard using Ruger 10/22's with the European (Mannlicher) stocks!
Click to expand...

You have great eyes Sir! That would be my team...here are the rifles you're talking about.The story goes they were donated by Ruger and have been presented to the team that wins Florida Wing Cadet Competition every year...I have them for another month. If you can get someone to fund you, I love this set of drill rifles. They are demilled from the factory. Light, good looking and American! What Wing are you in? Are you a competition Color Guard, or a Honor Guard? How many rifles are we looking at?A 4man,2rifle CG or a full HG cordon? If you have any questions let me know

img_8723_std.jpg
20080627t141838z_std.jpg
img6209va8.jpg
 
My adult leader as a CAP cadet was also the commander of the local American Legion post. He had personal AND legion rifles we could use. If it was me, I would contact the local veteran organizations and see if you could work something out.
 
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