Duelling Pistols As Target Handguns

[Timthinker]

During my time on this subforum, I do not recall anyone discussing replica duelling pistols as target handguns. This omission seems a little strange since these guns were designed for accuracy. Now, these firearms require reloading after each shot which many may view as a pain. Understood. But this factor aside, what are the views of our contributors on the accuracy of the current repo models? I have thought about a Pedersoli replica of a LePage dueller which some consider as extremely accurate. I would appreciate all opinions, especially from those who shoot such pistols. Thanks.


Timthinker

 

[Mike OTDP]

As with all muzzle-loading arms, the accuracy depends on the quality of the gun.

The Pedersoli guns are probably the best of the true production guns. The LePage is their low-end-competitive model...the Kuchenreuter is better. And semi-custom pieces by Helmut Mohr, Tilo Dedinski, and Andy Baumkircher are better still. The trigger on my Baumkircher Billinghurst underhammer is the finest I have ever seen...including my Hammerli 208S.

As to flintlocks, the choices are far more limited. Hege used to make a replica Manton that was fantastic...but it's out of production and people who own them will NOT sell. So it's either a Pedersoli and fine-tune it, or order a Mohr. Or build it yourself, which a fair number of people do.

But they are a lot of fun. A top-end percussion gun will shoot 1/2 inch center-to-center at 25 yards, a flint smoothbore about 1.5 inches...if you can get a load that will work. Flint smoothbores are fickle.

 

[mec]

Actualy using the trigger guard hook add a lot to stability.
The Pedersoli Lepage comes in percussion and flint. I never have been able to learn to shoot the flint well but the percussion is unerringly accurate . I had to put blue loctite on the hair trigger adjustment screw to keep it from backing out but, other than that, it is extremely functional and well made.
The original Lepage Company sometimes sold these as boxed pairs with smooth bore barrels for dueling and rifled barrels for target shooting. The design of this one is circa 1850 -dueling was in disfavor but parlor shooting was very popular.

Sitting on ground with back rested against shooting bench and using knees for support from 50 yards.

flip side

 

[Nikdfish]

As Mec noted, the true dueller's pistol would be a smooth bore. The 1777 code duello specified "smooth and single", meaning a non-rifled bore and one piece of shot.

Some less than scrupulous duellers were known to try to take advantage by using a barrel with "scratch" rifling, where the very shallow cut lands and grooves were essentially invisible at the muzzle.

Nick

 

[mec]

It seems to have been variable. Most duellers were refined smoothbore martial pistols but some of the codes either didn't mention it or merely said " smooth bore is to be preferred." I've heard that the english went for large smooth bores while the Europeans liked smaller rifled duelers but I've also read the reverse.

The Hamilton/Burr pistols had light(scratch)rifling and double phase, single set triggers like the pedersoli.

 

[Mike OTDP]

The questions of rifled versus smoothbore and flintlock versus percussion depended greatly on time and place.

The classic British duellers were flintlock smoothbores. Scratch rifling was not legal...but the Manton brothers would do it if asked. British duellers ran between .45 to .65, with .55 being the most frequent. You will often run into officer's pistols that were made in the duelling style, but in .69, the standard carbine caliber. The British tended to duel at close range, 10-12 yards.

Percussion duelling pistols were normally rifled, and of Continental origin. French, Belgian, and German. Standard bore seems to be about .44-.45 caliber. The normal drill for those of us who shoot them is to use a .433 round ball and patch to fit. Continental duellists tended to use these pistols at longer distances...up to 70 yards, depending on the severity of the offense.

In European duelling, you must remember that killing was not nearly as important as displaying your good character by showing up. Unless the offense was serious, the seconds would use all sorts of chicanery to ensure that both principals left the duelling ground under their own power. It was hard to enjoy the adulation of tres jolie mademoiselles if you had a bullet through your lungs.

 

[Macmac]

There are others, but they are not commercial. Probably the best adds can be found in Muzzeloader Magazine. You also might find adds in Muzzel Blasts, which I am not as familar with.

A man named Kennedy as far as I know builds only pistols.. I only know of him because the pistols I build people ask me if Kennedy made them.

 

[mec]

the actions necessary to satisfy honor varied according to the offense and according to how many shots had already been fired during the exchange.

 

[Timthinker]

Thanks for the information, pics and history about duelling pistols. Let me provide some background info for this post. Some years ago, I left the world of BP shooting and foolishly sold my "smokepoles". Now, I hope to return to BP target shooting and seek a good percussion handgun. I had considered a Ruger Old Army but it has been discontinued. After my ire subsided, I thought about purchasing a replica duelling pistol for target practice. When I saw the photos posted here, I knew I had made the right choice. Thanks to all. I will be soliciting some more advice soon.

Mike, I look forward to some serious recommendations from you. Thanks for your input.


Timthinker

 

[Macmac]

if you act quickly and with in reason, you can probably still get the ROA... new and or used..

 

[Jim K]

True duelling pistols were designed to be pointed, not aimed; they had no sights or sometimes only a front bead.

That, plus not being rifled (usually) would have made them poor target pistols.

Jim

 

[Timthinker]

Jim, I remember reading a post you submitted some years ago about duelling pistols. Yes, your info is correct, but I am referring to "modern" duelling pistols. By modern, I mean replicas that are meant for target practice. I should have specified this earlier. Please feel free to make any suggestions about replica duelling pistols that you believe will benefit us.

Macmac, I once owned a Ruger Old Army and loved it. Now that it has been discontinued, I thought about trying a different kind of caplock pistols. Thanks for your advise.


Timthinker

 

[Mike OTDP]

That's odd...I've got five pair of original percussion duellers, plus three more single original percussion duellers, plus two original flint duelling pistols.

All have front and rear sights. Often quite good ones.

 

[Timthinker]

Mike, the issue of sights on duelling pistols depends on when they were produced and where. In addition, some pistols were retrofitted with sights at a later time for use as target pistols. Some of our historians here can provide a wealth of information on this topic.

One thing is certain, we would like to see some pics of those pistols.


Timthinker

 

[Macmac]

Mike OTDP said: That's odd...I've got five pair of original percussion duellers, plus three more single original percussion duellers, plus two original flint duelling pistols.

All have front and rear sights. Often quite good ones.

You RAT! :banghead:

 

[scrat]

That seems like a good collection. I am still debating on weather to get some right away or wait a while. You see my problem is this. i have room for 1 more either rifle or shot gun in my safe. Then i will have to buy another one. As far as handguns. Well im at my limits right now. For sure i would need another safe. So either way it looks like i need another safe first. But i still have room for that one more rifle or shot gun. Does anyone else have this problem.

 

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

It's probably a good thing dueling went out of style. Thinking back over my mis-spent ol' life while reading this thread I figure somebody would have killed my ass long ago....