Dumb annealing question

[1942farmall]

Silly question of the day. I've been reloading for almost 40 years. My wife got me a pretty nice annealing machine (Ugly Annealer) for Christmas.
I had some older 30.06 brass that I sized in September. The necks were so hard, they squealed when I sized them.
I'm sure they had hardened due to being fired numerous times.
My typical process is to size and decap my brass, then run thru my case polisher.
That way, my brass is clean and looks nice for priming, charging, and seating.
I simply like clean, new-looking ammo.
I'm aware I should anneal before sizing but would like to after the polishing so I don't lose the ability to see the annealed necks.
My guess is I'll be polishing and annealing before sizing now.
What are others doing?
Like I said... probably dumb but I'm curious.
Thanks

 

[JohnMc]

I usually anneal after tumbling before sizing. I also like to see the annealing color change. It's visible on military ammo, so it's OK by me.

 

[PistoleroWadcutterGANG]

You've obviously thought about your situation and hobby processes. SOOO.... no dumb question. You are in pursuit of knowledge nothing to feel bad about.

 

[Barmcd]

I keep track of how many reloads I have on my rifle brass - I reload SRP Lapua 6.5 CM cases 20 times before I toss it. I bring it home, anneal it, de-prime it, then throw it in one of these boxes. When I've used all the brass of in one lot (200 cases), I size, tumble with stainless steel pins, and trim to length if needed. I don't think it matters if you anneal and clean or clean and anneal. If you like the look of annealed necks continue to do it that way. I order two boxes of brass at a time hoping to get the same lot number. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

 

[Blue68f100]

What will happen is that you will have low neck tension. The way to get it back is to expand and resize a couple of times will work hardening the necks. It always best to anneal right after cleaning on bright clean brass make it easier to see the color change on the brass. Also be aware if clean annealed brass you run the risk of dinging up the mouths.

 

[GHinNH]

My Process
De-cap
Brush primer pockets
Tumble clean shiny(ish)
Anneal
F/L size minus expander ball
Mandrel die neck size
Trim length/deburr if needed
Quick tumble to remove residue
Load shoot repeat.

The necks will turn blackish eventually after repeated go rounds, but cleaning them of firing residue first will mitigate that some.

 

[Varminterror]

Decap
Wet tumble
Dry
Anneal
Lube with One Shot
Size
Expand
Trim/Debur/chamfer
Prime
Charge
Seat
Bang
Repeat

I can replace “wet tumble and dry” vibratory polish or ultrasonic clean & dry. (ETA: I don't have to tumble brass twice in my process because I use One Shot. When using other case lubes - which I really don't do - then tumbling AGAIN after sizing & expanding is required, as is lubing necks after trimming).

I don’t put dirty brass into my sizing dies, and I don’t decap with my sizing dies.

 

[kmw1954]

I follow pretty much the same routine as Varminterror other than after I FL Size then trim and chamfer I then tumble in cobb to remove the Hornady sizing wax and remove any small brass trimmings. That's about the only difference.

 

[Stevenvalleyky]

I deprime, wet tumble without pins, anneal, wet tumble again without pins so the car polish helps make the cases slicker and easier to size, then size, wet tumble without pins to get the lube off. After they dry, I chamfer/debur then load. I like to get rid of the color change after I anneal beforebI size for some reason. I typically only have to run the wet tumbler for 5 to 10 minutes and they are clean and shiny.

 

[41 Mag]

Pretty much like the others,

De-prime using a universal de-cap die, run them through the tumbler, anneal, size, trim as needed, and through the tumbler again. After that, they might sit a while before loading but are all nice and ready when needed.

 

[JEBruns]

I like the annealed look too, but it's not worth the extra steps for me to have it. I anneal first. Then lube/size/deprime. Trim as needed. Wet tumble with pins, dry, ready to load.

 

[Walkalong]

Decap
Wet tumble
Dry
Anneal
Lube
Size
Expand
Trim/Debur/chamfer
Prime
Charge
Seat
Bang
Repeat

I do very similarly

Decap
Dry tumble
Brush necks
Anneal
Lube
Size
Trim/Debur/Chamfer
Dry tumble
Brush necks
Expand
Prime
Charge
Seat

 

[OS/N]

I just do the water bath and torch anneal process and only on new brass. Less is more has been my experiance. Just enough to get a slightly dull finish. Not to get a glow is a good practice and don't weaken the case wall. Once you over anneal it can't be fixed and can be unsafe to use.

Watch with big cases - even though neck is annealed case head seperation is still an issue after a few reloads. Forward brass flow still happens.

 

[AJC1]

I do very similarly

Decap
Dry tumble
Brush necks
Anneal
Lube
Size
Trim/Debur/Chamfer
Dry tumble
Brush necks
Expand
Prime
Charge
Seat

Do you use the exact same process on match brass... I skip cleaning on a lot of match brass because it stays showroom clean.

 

[Chuck R.]

Similar process as some of the others:

Decap separately on an old RockChucker
Wet tumble SS Pins
Check primer pockets/inspect brass (before I waste any more time)
Anneal
Lube
Size
Dry tumble to remove lube
Expand necks using mandrel and dry moly
Check case length, trim-debur-chamfer if needed
Prime
Charge
Seat

 

[Varminterror]

I follow pretty much the same routine as Varminterror other than after I FL Size then trim and chamfer I then tumble in cobb to remove the Hornady sizing wax and remove any small brass trimmings. That's about the only difference.

I do very similarly

Decap
Dry tumble
Brush necks
Anneal
Lube
Size
Trim/Debur/Chamfer
Dry tumble

I did fail to note - I don't have to tumble again after sizing in my standard process because I use One Shot for sizing lube. I'll edit my post above.

 

[Laphroaig]

I do very similarly

Decap
Dry tumble
Brush necks
Anneal
Lube
Size
Trim/Debur/Chamfer
Dry tumble
Brush necks
Expand
Prime
Charge
Seat

I see that you brush your necks after you tumble. Interesting. I used to brush necks on occasion too, but its mostly fallen from my repertoire. Is it to get any stray media out, or for another reason? And what do you use for a brush?

Maybe I should find the brushes that I had and start doing it again? I never saw much difference when I did, which is probably why I quit.

 

[Varminterror]

I see that you brush your necks after you tumble. Interesting. I used to brush necks on occasion too, but its mostly fallen from my repertoire. Is it to get any stray media out, or for another reason? And what do you use for a brush?

Maybe I should find the brushes that I had and start doing it again? I never saw much difference when I did, which is probably why I quit.

I personally lube necks because I can feel lesser and more consistent seating resistance and see more reliable velocity consistency. I spray my necks with One Shot during my lube process, but in the rare instances I don't use One Shot, I lube necks either with a Forster brush and mica powder or graphite powder on a nylon RCBS brush. A lot of folks who dry tumble have the luxury of just needing to brush a few strokes to free and distribute the inherent carbon residue on the neck, but any wet method requires new lube media be added, since the brass necks are actually clean.

 

[kmw1954]

Have no argument for whatever method and products one uses. All that matters is that what you are doing works for you and you are happy with the results.

To lube I was originally taught with the RCBS pad and rolling. Then I was shown the Unique Wax method and just felt more comfortable with it. Might not be as fast but I have yet to stick a case.

I also dry tumble to remove the lube and any small brass chips that fall into the case and at the same time I use treated cobb to help with neck lube and case drying.. Why because after annealing I drop into cold water. Not to quench the brass but just to keep from having a pile of hot brass sitting in front of me. And yes I admit I am a klutz and have been know to burn myself! Can't tell you how many times it has happened while sweating copper pipe or cooking!

 

[DustyRusty]

I used the brush mounted in a pool of mica years ago.
Now, I just dip clean cases in the jar of this dry neck lube. So easy.
It's tiny ceramic balls in a jar of graphite.
Just be careful not to knock it over.

 

[Walkalong]

Do you use the exact same process on match brass... I skip cleaning on a lot of match brass because it stays showroom clean.

LOL, that was match brass.

I don't tumble the cases long enough to get shiny with my match brass (6 Dasher mostly), just get clean. 6 PPC cases got wiped off and reloading over and over all weekend long.

I do tumble my handgun cases long enough to get purty. Plinker .223 as well, "accuracy loads" .223 also, but pretty doesn't make it shoot well.

 

[Walkalong]

I did fail to note - I don't have to tumble again after sizing in my standard process because I use One Shot for sizing lube. I'll edit my post above.

I like to tumble after trimming/deburr/chamfer to help smooth the neck entrance, same for brushing, helps smooth that entrance and remove corn cob dust.

 

[NZ308]

What will happen is that you will have low neck tension. The way to get it back is to expand and resize a couple of times will work hardening the necks. It always best to anneal right after cleaning on bright clean brass make it easier to see the color change on the brass. Also be aware if clean annealed brass you run the risk of dinging up the mouths.

Never found that annealing gave unacceptable low neck tension, it uniforms it. The annealing process will improve the ductility of the brass (hence can be damaged easier) and you find you need to adjust your die set up depending on your needs. My Redding Competition Dies only needed to have the bushing changed up 0.001 larger to accommodate the reduced spring back of the neck (no expander used and only run 0.001 neck tension) - running the case multiple times thru a sizing die will defeat the purpose of the annealing by work hardening the neck which will be uneven as the die is designed to size to the minimum dimensions on compression and back up on the expander which has less spring back than expected by the designer - which reduces the tension until you generate it by unannealing the brass again.
Solution is to replace the expander ball with a smaller one or modify the expander ball and polish it down enough to account for the reduced spring back - or replace the die with a bushing or collet type die.
What can cause a problem is the annealing process can make the inside of the neck too clean, this changes the friction between the case and projectile and needs to be allowed for in the development process or use a lubricant like Redding graphite to replace the carbon fouling burned off.

 

[Chuck R.]

View attachment 1189382
I used the brush mounted in a pool of mica years ago.
Now, I just dip clean cases in the jar of this dry neck lube. So easy.
It's tiny ceramic balls in a jar of graphite.
Just be careful not to knock it over.

It's what I use when I expand necks with mandrels. I then just wipe it off the outside of the neck, leaving it on the inside. Works very well and stops galling on the mandrels.

 

[doubleh]

It is too late for popcorn so I will simply state that I clean and then anneal.