Dumb question, why do I want a faster bullet?

[xcgates]

Well, I have to say that the book on Motorcycle Dynamics is a bit dense and difficult to follow, but it does give me a firmer grip on what my daily ride does every time I pick it up. Especially if I have a specific question as to why something like counter-steering actually. (A pretty basic, sometimes hard-to-grasp part of M/C handling)

I don't need to be an expert, but having something to peruse is nice.

::EDIT:: What about these two?
http://www.amazon.com/Understanding...obert-Rinker/dp/0964559854/ref=pd_cart_recs_2
http://www.amazon.com/Rifle-Accuracy-Facts-Harold-Vaughn/dp/1931220077/ref=pd_sim_b_5

 

[goon]

It is complicated but interesting to study. I read a lot on here but some of the debates are so esoteric that I cannot follow. Still though I am thankful for the knowledge.

Welcome to the world of guns.

 

[Skylerbone]

I just hope we don't forget to interact in the real world when questions arise. It may be more difficult in these times to remember that we used to talk to strangers and it wasn't just to tell them "wrong number".

I found out a guy at the local gun shop I frequent used to custom load for nearly 200 different cartridges. I wondered why his suggestions were always prefaced with questions about the specific firearm I was loading for and how he could be so spot on from memory with particulars. He can give case measurements, powder, velocity, charge weight and bullet suggestions like I tie my shoes. I'm glad I started talking, saves a ton on load development.

As for more books that first suggestion is nearly 600 pages IIRC to digest. There are some other great ones mentioned in the archives here or you could post a new thread and have a winter's worth to keep you nimble.

Best of luck and happy holidays.

 

[Ignition Override]

rcmodel:

The coworker/friend who has tried to teach me a few things about shooting and guns retired from the Navy Marks. Team. He set some records with the iron sight AR at 200 and 600 yards.

M. told me that the AR has an advantage over the M-1 Garand and M-1A, at whatever distances. This is way over my head.

 

[jimjc]

Here`s the way I look at it. There is a bewildering amount of bullets because competing companies developed different bullets to win over the future gun sales. Each bullet was supposed to "out do" a bullet of a competitor and by doing so they sold rifles, many new bullets were superior to previous ones. Hunting different animals presents different problems to solve, to be successful, some animals you can not get very close to, so you will need to have a bullet that gets to the target from longer distances, to be successful with the hunt. Those bullets have to be faster to accomplish this.

The faster the speed the less time the bullet has to be effected by the elements working against the bullet doing what you want it to do, such as wind and gravity. The "faster bullet" of two bullets the same size and weight will impart a "greater shock" to the animal and thus have "greater kill potential". Increasing speed has some negative effects though, for instance, shoot a squirrel with a 22lr and then one with a 22 mag. if both hit the center of the body they will no doubt be dead but the squirrels body that is hit by the 22 mag will be blown to pieces,if you are hunting for meat in this instance you dont want the body blown into pieces, the correct bullet, in this case was the 22lr and if you intend to shoot squirrels from longer distances then a 17hmr would be better yet, it`s faster thus more accurate at longer distances.

Hunting dangerous animals is best done from a distance and if your target is to be something that is large you will need a fast and damaging bullet, that overcomes the elements and gets the job done. There are places on the Internet that discuss the appropriate size bullets for the animals you intend to hunt. What I have said is overly simplistic and as far as ballistics goes, it`s a very complicated subject that has many opinions to ferret through. I tend to look at it as I do computers, it finds me the answers and I really do not have to know how they work. If I find that the consensus is that a certain bullet works for a particular animal, in a particular part of the country, I`m interested in hunting, thats what I`ll use until I find something else that works better.

One could spend a lifetime on the subject and still not be able to answer all the questions but reading the various hunting books and magazines will get you closer to the appropriate bullet for the animal you are interested in hunting.

 

[russ69]

...Mathematically: Kinetic energy = 1/2 mass of the projectile X velocity squared. It's the velocity "squared" that adds the energy.

Right on the money. E=1/2 MV^2. You want V, lots of V.

Thanx, Russ

 

[xcgates]

I just hope we don't forget to interact in the real world when questions arise. I may be more difficult in these times to remember that we used to talk to strangers and it wasn't just to tell them "wrong number".

Of course not, but I do like having something in dead tree edition to flip through. It is one of the reasons I still get a couple different motorcycle and firearm magazines. Sure I can get the same info online, but I can't carry it with me, or lounge on the couch and read as easily on a computer screen.

 

[Skylerbone]

There are easy ways to explain difficult concepts in ballistics. I'm not the best at analogies but here are a few.

Sometimes faster is better:

Slow pitch over the plate vs. 98 mph fastball.

Sometimes slower is better:

Wiffle ball at 90 mph vs baseball at 70 mph.

B.C. (ballistic coefficient) is a measure of aerodynamics if you will. The higher the number, the more streamlined the projectile. To achieve a higher B.C. the shape of the bullet must be altered from say round nose to ballistic tip or flat base to boattail. (think of car design and mpg).

Bucking the wind:

Given 2 identical bullets, the one moving faster will be less affected by wind under identical conditions. But change one of those bullets to a higher weight, higher B.C. design and it will outperform the other bullet at the same velocity.

The problem of course is that the additional weight of those high B.C. projectiles necessitates a longer bullet leaving less room for propellant. Less powder of course means less velocity.

What if the charge leaves room for more powder even with the longer bullet? Well that is where pressure takes over as the longer bullet has displaced internal volume inside the casing causing higher pressure.

So...the real key is to find a bullet that is heavy enough to do the job, doesn't blow up the rifle, won't behave like a semi truck in the wind and performs properly when hitting the target. Make sense?

Sectional density is a topic for someone else.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Ill take up the sectional density for you skylerbone! In laymans terms, sectional density is the bullets weight in "pounds" divided by the square of its diameter in inches. To further the explanation (simplify), Better bullets are those that have the most weight in the smallest package. The better the sectional density, the better the bullet will hold together and penetrate mass. Of course sectional density is not the only factor in that. You have jacketing technology, bonding core technology, locking technology, all kinds of stuff that will aid in a bullets performance in terminal ballistics. But sectional density is the starting basis for how well a bullet will perform upon impact.

 

[Skylerbone]

Nicely put Freedom. The way it was explained to me was with the question "Would you rather have your foot stepped on by a woman in sneakers or stilettos?" both of course will hurt but given the same weight woman, one may well lead to an E.R. visit. Freedom Fighter's explanation demonstrates the why of if the heel is made of jello, your foot will likely be just fine.

 

[youngda9]

I would suggest that you go to the library and pick up a few books to learn all about it. I bet people here could suggest some.

 

[gk1]

Most importantly, don't get caught up in small numbers; focus on the bigger picture. Jeff Cooper had a phrase "preoccupation with inconsequential increments". It's best avoided, yet that's harder to do than you might think. Read a lot, learn what things affect results, and remember that most of it only matters at the extremes. If you stay in the "fat part of the curve", you won't really be able to see much difference in the field.

 

[eazyrider]

Sometimes in life you need a certain thing explained in a certain way to grasp it. Jimjc's post was very insightful. Thanks to all of you, this boards reputation was put on display very well.

 

[eye5600]

Two factors not mentioned so far (that I noticed): cost and recoil.

 

[rcmodel]

M. told me that the AR has an advantage over the M-1 Garand and M-1A, at whatever distances.

It is true the M16 has set some new Service rifle match records in the last few years.

It is also true the military shortened the Service Rifle course of fire from the 800 & 1,000 yards for the 30-06 & .308 to 600 yards max for the 5.56mm.

Because the M-16 wasn't doing so hot at 800 & 1,000 yards.

rc

 

[therewolf]

Yeah, the Hornady book is 900 some pages.

Fun to refer back to, but not on my memorization list..

 

[Skylerbone]

Eye(m) not sure what cost you're referring to but here goes for recoil: some people associate heavier bullets with more felt recoil. Well it ain't so easy as that in my experience. I'm not an expert on this one as I tend to eliminate the "felt" rather than messing with everything else.

Starting with caliber, realize from the above that biggest entry hole possible isn't always the best solution. Referring back to Freedom Fighter's post about sectional density will help you understand that proper bullet selection for your purpose can gain you more than can a slight boost in speed. Choosing the appropriate bullet means (within reason) you can select a caliber that is less punishing to your shoulder.

Now that the selection is made have a good long look at the butt of the rifle. (it's ok to stare) Realize that whatever you load in the chamber will be interacting with you through whatever you're looking at be it a steel plate, hard plastic or some form of rubberized material. My advice after trying a whole lot of them is ditch it and put a Simms LimbSaver on it. Nothing I've used even warrants comparison.

Beyond that are mercury recoil reducers, different stocks and of course a muzzle brake. (the brake is a last ditch attempt to control what is essentially too much gun for the shooter but IS sometimes necessary)

There are also shoulder pads, both Simms and Past make decent ones (got one of each) and you can always practice in your (geographically dependent) foul weather clothing.

Sandbags, rests, bringing a friend along, use what you can to reduce what you can while leaving the firearm as practical as possible for it's purpose.

Care to touch on cost FF? I'd bet your collection is a bit heaftier than mine.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

I negate cost by reloading (hand loading my own ammo). This accomplishes 3 important things. First and foremost is accuracy. By reloading, I can tailor each loading to each specific weapon. Anyone that shoots a lot will tell you that a rifle can be, and usually is, more picky than any woman on earth. I can get grain of bullet as well as shape, powder load as well as powder speed (burn rate is a VERY important factor) as well as, by neck sizing, I can "fire form" my cases and now have a case that is formed specifically to my chamber which can be very productive.
Second is, by reloading, I can also control recoil. If I want to practice my "form" with a particular rifle but it is in a punishing calibre, I can load them down to a more acceptable recoil level and be able to practice with that weapon without killing my shoulder.
Last, but certainly not least, is cost. I can reload all of my ammo for about 1/3rd the cost of your average factory ammunition. I am always looking for deals on powders and bullets and usually buy in bulk. (My UPS man HATES me when I do a "bullet run") Example, I am about to start a build for a .338 lapua. The average cost per factory round of them is around 5 bucks!!! While reloading, I will be able to build custom tailored match ammo for at LEAST half that.

Skylerbone pretty much nailed it as far as recoil issues. If you are at all sensitive to a weapon, get a Limb saver recoil pad. Damn things are worth their weight in gold in my opinion. If you are interested in a hunting rifle, just remember to leave the "macho man" mind set at the house with the wife. Do not let your bravado get you into a rifle that over powers you. The animals in nature deserve our absolute BEST that we can do to harvest them cleanly and efficiently. If you get a rifle that beats the hell out of you, you can and WILL flinch in the field and will more than likely not hit where you are trying to. The animals then pay for your bravado with blown off legs, bullets in the gut, blown off jaws so they can't eat and starve to death. Crap like that to me is the ULTIMATE cost!