Dutch justice minister to ban semi-automatic rifles

[Red Crow]

Our esteemed Security and Justice Minister Ivo Opstelten has announced he is going to ban semi-automatic rifles.

Apparently, the measure was prompted by the mall shooting in the town of Alpen aan den Rijn in April of this year, when a man used a semi-automatic rifle as well as a pistol and a revolver to kill six people and injure 17 others before killing himself.

In an interview, the minister said “Such weapons are not intended for use at a shooting club. They’re made to hit moving targets. It’s unacceptable for members of a shooting club to have such a weapon, let alone keep one at home”.

(Under Dutch law, target shooting and hunting are the only two legitimate reasons for owning a firearm and membership of a shooting club is compulsory. See Gun laws in the Netherlands, an article that I wrote for Radio Netherlands Worldwide immediately after the Alphen aan den Rijn shooting)

“Made to hit moving targets”? Like Rabbits? Clay pigeons? I would have thought all guns were capable of hitting both stationary targets and moving ones, but unfortunately the minister - and most Dutch police officers for that matter – have little or no knowledge of fire arms.

Please also bear in mind that the gunman was mentally ill, a fact that was known to local police but that did not stop them from issuing this guy with a gun permit. Also, several mental health workers and institutions were aware of the threat he posed and the fact that he owned guns, but failed to report him to the police, claiming professional confidentiality prevented them from doing so.

So the police screwed up big time by issuing a mentally deranged person with a gun permit, and now the justice minister is penalising law-abiding gun owners by banning semi-automatic rifles. Sound familiar?

You may understand that I, as the proud owner of an original M14 rifle - one of about 70 M14s imported from Vietnam by an Amsterdam gun dealer – am greatly concerned about the minister’s plan.

Don't stop defending the second amendment, because unless your gun rights are enshrined in constitional law you are at the mercy of ignorant and incompetent 'don't-confuse-me-with-the-facts' politicians

Red Crow

 

[AirForceShooter]

Get politically active
Get the press is join in, on your side.

AFS

 

[M-Cameron]

In an interview, the minister said “Such weapons are not intended for use at a shooting club. They’re made to hit moving targets. It’s unacceptable for members of a shooting club to have such a weapon, let alone keep one at home”.

.......now where have i heard this before......hrmmm.....gimme a second, its coming to me........

OH!, now i remember.....thats the same crap they spewed for Full-auto weapons.

"well why would anyone need a weapon that shoots full auto?...thats only good for shooting a lot of people really fast!"


you watch.....when they cant have semi-auto.....people will just kill each other with bolt actions.

"well why would anyone need a bolt action with a magazine.....thats only good for shooting a lot of people without the need to reload!"

then when they restrict magazines......people will just kill each other with single shot.....then theyll start restricting calibers

"well why would anyone need a .338.......thats only good for snipers to shoot people from a long range!!"

 

[Red Crow]

@AirForceShooter

You're right of course. Unfortunately, there is no pro-gun political party in the Netherlands and no pro-gun media. The right to carry and use a gun in self defence is not on anybody's political agenda.

Self defence is theoretically allowed if the victim uses 'proportional violence', but in practice rarely accepted by the courts. If the person who attacked you sustained more serious injuries than you did he can even sue you for assaulting him. This has actually happened in a number of cases.

For some reason it is impossible for public prosecutors to comprehend that most people who come under attack are too busy defending themselves to carefully consider whether the violence they use is 'proportional'.

 

[whalerman]

I fear we are headed for the same. Our government schools encourage no one to think.

 

[barnetmill]

Can this minister ban weapons at his own discretion or does it have to go to some group of lawmakers?

 

[whalerman]

I was wondering the same thing as barnetmill asked. Are rights something so simply lost that a single politician can wipe them away with his own ignorance? Please Mr and Mrs Dutchmen, next time you get a visit from the Germans, call someone else.

 

[Fanfare Ends]

From the other article: "Many of these illegal arms are alarm guns illegally converted to firearms."

I am almost afraid to ask, what are "alarm guns"?

 

[whalerman]

They're ones they shoot off when they spot Panzer divisions.

 

[Snowbandit]

I suspect the problem throughout Europe it that gun ownership is not viewed as a right by anyone. It's considered a privilege to be given or taken away at the whim of some government bureaucrat. It might be time to decide what you're going to do with that M-14. Suppose you could have a "boating accident" but those never seemed very sporting to me.

 

[whalerman]

That's right, Snow. They don't consider much of anything a right over there. The people exist to support the government. Government by and of and for the people has little to do with their system. You are exactly right. What a person can do is what the government allows them to do. It is the fundamental difference between us and them. And hopefully, I won't live long enough to see us adapt to their sophisticated lifestyle.

 

[mortablunt]

It makes me sad that forward thinking progressive countries are so ignorant about arms and the human right to be safe through possession and use of arms.

 

[Fanfare Ends]

"They're ones they shoot off when they spot Panzer divisions."

( : >)

 

[Strykervet]

Holland is getting stricter and stricter. If we didn't have a 2A, we'd have lost ours long ago.

 

[Red Crow]

@barnetmill

Yes, to the best of my knowledge the minister can simply amend existing gun laws without seeking the approval of parliament, though he would no doubt inform MPs of his decision.

@Whalerman

We have no gun rights. It's that simple. We never did and most probably never will. Dutch gun laws state that all weapons are banned, but the government can decide to grant permits for certain categories of weapons for target shooting and hunting. A couple of years ago our supreme court ruled that 'the slightest suspicion' of abuse is sufficient justification for the police to seize a citizen's firearms. Just like that. In this country owning a gun is not a right, on the contrary, it means being held to much stricter standards of behavior than other people.

Red Crow

 

[Red Crow]

@Fanfare Ends

Alarm guns are 'guns' that fire blanks to let people know you are in danger or to scare off criminals (some of us might prefer a real gun when in danger). I suppose they could also be used as a starting gun.

Red Crow

 

[Siggie]

Actually, In the Netherlands we used to have some sort of gun right, but this is what happened. For our US friends, hold on to your shoes, as this IS exactly why you have the right to own a gun in your constitution... Please defend and cherish that. Now the story:

Until 1896, there was hardly any gun control in the Netherlands. In that year, it was totally forbidden to own guns to prohibit "trapping" of wildlife.

In 1919, after WW1, many defense personnel and civilians held arms that where left over from the war ('14 - '18) In 1919 the Gun law (or "Wet wapens en Munitie") was clearly stating that guns where not permitted amongst citizens in order to safeguard the position of the government. This very government in 1918 was extremely concerned about the number of arms that where taken into the country by refugees from war zones. As such the dutch government was afraid of a "Bolsjewistic" revolution. Secially because Pieter Jelles Troelstra preached for revolution. So the government decided to remove these ultimate tools of revolution from the hands of the citizens. The official readings of the assembly of parliament where (and I translate): "To keep the guns out of the hands of the damn left wing socialists". Even thought he citizens of the Netherlands pledged their alliance and support to the government 2 years later by removing the horses from the queens carriage and pull the carriage themselves, was no reason to lift this restriction on firearms.

Needless to say this also left the population defenseless for the rising Germany as the Dutch government really thought they would stay neutral. History thought us a valuable lesson back then, that was easily forgotten.

Now, having said this, in the Netherlands it is indeed only permitted to handle firearms on a shooting range or during hunting season (and then even by the ones having a hunting permit) Possession of Firearms is strictly regulated. By itself that is not a bad thing. But in the case where a gunman killed 7 in my hometown, the public discussion turned against the sport-shooter, and this was fueled by the press, who could not wait to broadcast any footage out o the past that would show how "trigger-happy and uncontrolled" the sport shooter handled his weapons. I think it is painful that 48000 sport-shooters, gun dealers and parts sellers are now discriminated by the government to cover up THEIR failing to enforce the already strict gun law in the Netherlands.

BTW, the minister wants to ban all semi-auto's and there is even a fear this would not only include long guns as a pistol is a semi as well. And a revolver. well.. with a bit of uninformed imagination...
Also keeping guns at home is under discussion. Apparently they rather see mass storages at the shooting range. Criminals are already getting out their shopping carts.

If the opinion of the minister finds its way, it is the next limitation on the shooting sport in the Netherlands and possibly the course is set for extinction. Until that happens, I might be trying to figure out how to run a IPSC long course with a Black Powder front-loader or bow and arrow.
Because for us, shooting is a sport and a sport only.

To make it even funnier, This minister (Safety and Justice) is from a right wing political party.

 

[husbandofaromanian]

I can't understand Europe forgetting wwII since it was in fought in their cities and neighborhoods. I'm afraid I am a citizen of the next country that wants to rule the world.

 

[Daniel]

It's the future. O, people will always be able to own guns, but it'll be whittled and whittled down till it's only sport and hunting (no "plinking" even). Yes, I see it happening in the US just the same (it's been moving that way slowly over the years), no matter what the constitution says, it'll only take a little longer.

I know the cause, but it's a pill people won't swallow.

 

[A strange person]

I could probably kill 100 people with a muzzleloader so long as no one was shooting back at me.

 

[hermannr]

"In 1919 the Gun law (or "Wet wapens en Munitie") was clearly stating that guns where not permitted amongst citizens in order to safeguard the position of the government."

Siggie, what you said, and I quoted above is absolutely correct. It is so the people in power can stay in power. In German in the 30's you were allowed to own and use a firearm if you were a member in good standing of the National Socialist party. You were not allowed to even have possession of a gun if you were not a good party member. The law was not written that way, but that is how it actually worked.

The people in power do not want to think they may be challenged with force.

 

[henschman]

The possibility of tyrants being able to rule by decree and strip people of their liberty on a whim is exactly why every individual should be armed, and violently resist any attempts to deprive them of that right.

There is a risk of guns being used in crime in an armed society, but it is heavily outweighed by the risk of tyranny on the part of the authorities. It may never come to pass if people are vigilant enough, but the consequences if it did would be too unspeakable to imagine... something I would think Europeans would understand better than anybody. I say when it comes to over-powerful government, a gram of prevention is worth a kilo of cure.

 

[GEM]

This might be useful. It is an article that demonstrated that members of Dutch shooting clubs were not more aggressive than other folks and even less so.

Whether such would convince a politician is doubtful. No politician of any leaning ever cares about facts.

Nagtegaal, M. H., Rassin, E., & Muris, P. E. H. M. (2009). Do members of shooting associations display higher levels of aggression? Psychology, Crime & Law, 15, 313-325. doi: 10.1080/10683160802241682

 

[230RN]

See my present sig line...

This says it all: "Disarmed people are neither free nor safe - they become the criminals' prey and the tyrants' playthings." http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/deathgc.htm#chart

Terry, 230RN

 

[Siggie]

GEM.. that is an excellent publishing. Specially in the light that in the Netherlands another politician actually sees sport shooters and legal gun permit holders(and ex permit holders) as an exceptional risk and liability.
Thanks for bringing it to our attention.!!