EDC too much??

[jeepnik]

Well now. Apparently it my decision to change carry guns is imprudent. Gee, at my age I figure I've gotten to a point where everything I do has to be prudent.

Perhaps I realize that I can, after all I have for many decades, use different firearms. I know some folks seem to be "limited" in their ability to adapt. I don't seem to have that problem.

On the other hand, maybe I'm just an old dinosaur who's to set in his ways to realize that the young know everything about everything even though they haven't actually done or learned much.

 

[Hangingrock]

I'm in my seventh decade thus I'm set in ways be they right - wrong and or indifferent. I don't subscribe to the carry rotation theme unless as an example its a S&W-MP9 during the late Fall and Winter and the remainder of the year S&W-MP9c, which is what I do. For what ever reason should I supplement with a 2nd weapon on my person a S&W M640-38Spl-DAO. I have been experimenting with a S&W Shield 9mm for warm weather carry and thinking the S&W MP9c during the colder months thus I'm some what more flexible in my ways then I presumed myself to be. With that said I do stay with the same style holster sized for each of the S&W MP9-9c & Shield 9mm a Comp-Tac Flatline series.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I don't switch back and forth often, but I do carry different firearms in different situations.

If I'm carrying OWB under a sport jacket, I'll opt for a full sized firearm.
For deeper concealment in the summer, the M&P Bodyguard in .380 just slips into a pocket holster.

That's about the only variation for me.

 

[Kleanbore]

Perhaps I realize that I can, after all I have for many decades, use different firearms.

Many of us can.

I can "use different firearms".

I have fired cap and ball firearms, single action revolvers, double action revolvers, Lugers, P-38s, Tokarevs, a PP and PPk or two, Smith DA/SA pistols, and several different stiriker fired semi-outos, most of them with reasonable proficiency.

Some, but no all, of them would serve well for self defense.

But that is not the issue at hand, is it?

 

[NMPOPS]

I carry a Glock 26 when I can and a, Airweight J-frame when I can't.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

I freely admit that I am very opinionated on issues that I am familiar with.
On the issue of what gun or guns others chose to carry my opinion is, it's your choice, it has no effect on me at all provided your not shooting at me.

 

[bassjam]

I once carried a J-Frame in my pocket fairly frequently.

Three things caused me to stop:

1. After taking a couple of good defensive pistol shooting courses, I learned that I could not draw while moving, present, and fire as quickly and effectively from a pocket as from an OWB holster
2. I concluded, after very careful thought, analysis, and consideration, that a five shot capacity was not really advisable for primary carry
3. I found that the firearm I replaced it with, a good ten-shot double column sticker fired pistol. not only had a much better trigger pull, it was within fractions of an inch of the j-Frame in height, width, and length

But of course that eliminated the convenience of dropping a gun (in a pocket holster) into a pocket.

I am retired. When I cannot carry, I can keep an empty holster concealed OWB.

If I were more constrained, I would look into the possibility of acquiring a holster that can be very easily attached and removed I have not searched, and I have no recommendations.

I can't argue on the extra time it takes to draw with a pocket gun, but for me that would often be the difference between carrying or not carrying. As to capacity, my careful thought, analysis, and consideration has led me to believe 5 shots is plenty. To each his own.

 

[Kleanbore]

As to capacity, my careful thought, analysis, and consideration has led me to believe 5 shots is plenty.

It just might turn out to be.

 

[fastbolt]

Pocket holster carry might be said to require even more attention to your immediate environment, as it does present some added difficulty in drawing that a belt holster might not present.

However, pocket holster carry also offers an advantage not usually possible with the belt holster, which is being able to put your hand in your pocket, and grasp the butt, without it being obvious as when grasping the butt of a belt holstered weapon.

This is a trade-off, of sorts. If someone pocket carrying is sufficiently aware of their environment, they can surreptitiously reach into their pocket before it may become necessary to draw and present the concealed weapon. The person carrying the belt holstered pistol tries to grasp their holstered handgun, it's generally quite obvious.

Yes, trying to drawing while moving can be difficult, regardless of carry method, but trying to remove a handgun from inside a pocket can usually be more difficult than trying to draw from a belt scabbard. This is where the aware and prepared person, using pocket holster carry, may be able to get "ahead of the curve" by being able to have already grasped their weapon before the need for movement becomes necessary.

It's all a compromise, not matter how you look at it. What offers an advantage in one set of circumstances may not be advantageous in other circumstances.

I thought I remembered Mas writing an article some years ago discussing this, where he timed himself drawing and firing from both belt and pocket holsters. (It might've been another writer of the time, some years ago.) Anyway, when he was able to reach inside his pocket and grasp the gun before he had to draw, which was done using a hand-in-the-pocket gesture that would appear normal to most folks (as opposed to someone resting their hand on a belt-holstered gun), he was faster in getting off his first shot. Advantage to pocket holster carry.

Driving, or being otherwise seated (like in a movie theater, at an office desk, etc) can introduce another layer of difficulty for the pants/jeans pocket-holstered gun, but not, perhaps, the jacket pocket-holstered gun. Oh well, TANSTAAFL.

I spent many years also using pants & jacket pocket-holster carry, at the same time I was wearing belt holsters, when working at our range as an instructor. It was something I wanted to frequently practice, so it became at least second nature, if not first nature.

In some instances where I was wearing a heavier layer of outer garments, such as a raincoat over my sport coat, being able to have my 649 Bodyguard snub in my R/H outside raincoat pocket made it very easy to sometimes grasp the butt of the snub without it being obvious, or appearing as anything other than an ordinary gesture of keeping my hands warm. It also made it easier if I needed to access that snub while seated in the unmarked car, versus trying to reach for the belt gun.

As with many other things in this realm ... it depends.

 

[Kleanbore]

Post #59 is well put--and yes, it was Mas.

I was prepared and able to use that pocket technique once, successfully. Robbery aborted, no shots fired. But that's because reaching into the pocket was obvious to that robber on that occasion.

But I do think tha most people tend to overestimate their ability to employ situational awareness. I would hate to try a pants pocket draw while moving in what we often describe as a Tueller scenario,

A jacket pocket holster is my choice as a backup when I am strapped into the driver's seat. Kimber K6.

And, yes, I can see carrying that as primary when I have no other choice.

 

[Chuck R.]

Well now. Apparently it my decision to change carry guns is imprudent. Gee, at my age I figure I've gotten to a point where everything I do has to be prudent.

Perhaps I realize that I can, after all I have for many decades, use different firearms. I know some folks seem to be "limited" in their ability to adapt. I don't seem to have that problem.

On the other hand, maybe I'm just an old dinosaur who's to set in his ways to realize that the young know everything about everything even though they haven't actually done or learned much.

I often read this as one of those "I'm just as good with......." things. IMHO, it has nothing to do with an ability or lack of ability to adapt. I usually equate this sentiment to everyone's having a different definition of "proficiency with a firearm". One mans level of proficiency is simply the ability to load, fire and hit what he's aiming at, another's is to do all three under vary conditions and within a time constraint to include remedial action drills. In my case I cannot take a firearm I've not been practicing with or competing with, run it in a timed drill and achieve similar scores as with a handgun I have been working with, this is especially true with a drill that requires a reload on the clock. Generally the one I've been working with will win out every time.

I currently own 23 handguns, I can operate and shoot every one of them reasonably well, but to say I could pick up anyone of them and run an El Presidente or shoot an IDPA match and get a similar score as one of the guns I've been practicing with is a fallacy. Which is why I don't rotate.

Chuck

 

[1911 guy]

Drawer full of pistols. All of them 5" 1911. All of them .45ACP. There is some variation in how they look, but all are functionally identical.

 

[Rexster]

I use three handgun systems for serious purposes: 1911, DA revolver, and Glock, in order of initial acquisition. I have multiple handguns, of each system. I own others, but do not carry them, because three systems seems to be my limit for maintaining a high level of performance.

I am comfortable with a fourth system, Colt SAA-pattern single action sixguns, but do not carry them, because I am expected to fire a qual with every handgun I carry on or off the clock, and I am not allowed to qual with single-action revolvers.

 

[z7]

I have 3 pistols that I choose between depending on my clothes, the weather and where I am going

Glock 27 for light clothes and more concealment or more active outings where I run a greater rIsk of printing or my shirt might move more

Glock 23, most of the time

Glock 35 for higher risk activities like road trips, hotels, hurricane evacuations etc

I always have at least one spare mag

I use one holster

I shoot all the guns frequently and practice drawing and firing with all

With my glocks everything is common, same trigger/sights/mags and ammunition so the only thing that changes is perceived recoil and size of the grip

 

[BSA1]

As with many forum members I have several guns suitable for edc. However I have limited myself to two.

My primary is a Beretta 92FS. I carry this gun year round in a Sparks EX iwb holster. As Kansas is a open carry state I rarely worry about concealment.

When I go someplace than bans open carry my other gun is SIG P239 9mm. It is DA/SA so it operates the same as my 92FS's. I carry in a high ride owb holster and is easily concealed by a garment.

 

[bullseye308]

I have 3 that I carry, 2 of them 95% of the time. The main carry is a Glock 17 with a TLR-1HL IWB, the other is a Glock 17L same setup, same holster. My other occasional carry is a Springfield Range Officer 5" 9mm. I shoot all 3 at least twice a month and shoot ~600 rounds each range trip.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't notice much difference when I draw any of them. They are carried at 3:30-4:00 and with my grip I'd get the safety off on all 3 of them as they are presented. I do get in lots of draws and dry fire with all 3 and I have always adapted to variances easily.

 

[JR24]

My concession to the "one gun for carry, due to training" theory (and sound advice) is that when I switch carry guns, my weekly shooting shifts to nearly exclusively that gun for the duration.

Due to such I can be confident both my long term muscle memory and recent training will help.

However, I have occasionally gone under timer with my favorite carry guns at CCW distances (7 to 10 yards) rotating frome one string to the next with very little noticeable degredation in hits or speed.

I am condident that I can grab any style* gun and be proficient at under 10 yards with vary little familiarization needed.

*excepting an engaged slide mounted safety, I have never owned nor trained with such and would not carry one without considerable practice.

 

[C0untZer0]

Driving, or being otherwise seated (like in a movie theater, at an office desk, etc) can introduce another layer of difficulty for the pants/jeans pocket-holstered gun, but not, perhaps, the jacket pocket-holstered gun.

I have a SAR B6P CZ-knock off type gun that rides in a Gum Creek under-dashboard holster that is just to the right of my right knee, and I'm right handed. When I first started practicing drawing I would have trouble when I tried to bring the gun across my body to the left (driver's side window), I would occasionally just whack the muzzle of the gun on the steering wheel. And what's kind of scary is that if I go a few weeks without practicing, the next time I do get around to practicing, I'm doing things like whacking the muzzle against the steering wheel again or forgetting to flick off the safety.

It really takes a lot of practice and for me anyway, I have to keep practicing.

 

[fastbolt]

I have a SAR B6P CZ-knock off type gun that rides in a Gum Creek under-dashboard holster that is just to the right of my right knee, and I'm right handed. When I first started practicing drawing I would have trouble when I tried to bring the gun across my body to the left (driver's side window), I would occasionally just whack the muzzle of the gun on the steering wheel. And what's kind of scary is that if I go a few weeks without practicing, the next time I do get around to practicing, I'm doing things like whacking the muzzle against the steering wheel again or forgetting to flick off the safety.

It really takes a lot of practice and for me anyway, I have to keep practicing.

Your experience supports what's become commonly known in LE training when it comes to drawing and presentation from any particular carry method.

It used to be thought that several repetitions using some different holster might be sufficient to familiarize a user. Then, it was recommended (by a manufacturer, or vendor) to perform at least 200 properly executed "draws" from a holster prior to using it on-duty. Then, I read where it was being recommended that a new user of a safety holster make at least 500 properly executed practice draws before using the holster for duty. Etc, etc ... and it can take a lot longer.

I've seen the occasional person try to have a new, personally-owned Level 3 holster approved for use for duty (my former agency permitted optional holsters, subject to approval by a designated person), but fail to demonstrate being able to use it within even the most generous time constraints in the current quals/training drills. Some folks could demonstrate they'd learned to use their optional choice after a couple of days ... or a couple of weeks ... or sometimes even longer.

Learning to use some particular method/system is one thing, but learning how to safely & properly repeatedly practice the successful use of it is yet another, and then ... there's the sufficiency of recurrent practice to allow someone to effectively retain not only familiarity with it, but the continued ability to safely, surely and smoothly use of it.

I remember reading one of many articles of studies of college level athletes (being an exercise enthusiast and martial artist), and how an interesting study resulted in the theory that a flawed, unsuccessful repetition of some critical coordinated movement might require at least 10 successful subsequent repetitions to bring the athlete back to where they'd been before the unsuccessful repetition.

Kind of like many other physical tasks may do, and which may be combined with (or affected by) other coordinated movements. It's often a situation where concise and effective performance of the movement really starts to become "second nature" after the proper repetition of a few thousand successful repetitions ... and then you can start to work on doing it under increasing stress.

Naturally, since we're talking about guns, there's the component of learning/practicing with EMPTY guns (and mags).

 

[paulsj]

Over the past few years I purchased some pistols for EDC? Am I crazy and hold the worlds record for the most weapons? I can carry and have IWB holsters for a Bersa Thunder 9mm UC, a Bersa Thunder 380 Plus, Taurus 738TCP, a Polish P-64 9x18 and a Polish P-83 9x18 Makarov. Now I am thinking about a SCCY CPX-2? That is 5 and possibly 6 with a SCCY.
Does anyone else have various EDC weapons for use?

I would sell those and buy second hand G26. Second-hand is nice because more often than not you can find one in excellent shape with working night sights for less than new one with plastic sights. The G26 is professional grade & superior to every gun you listed.
You could buy something useful with money left over like groceries, for example.

 

[paulsj]

I think best practice is to have guns that are substantially similar.

I broke my own rule when I purchased a SAR B6P for a truck gun. I do a lot of training with it, in the driver's seat, drawing from the undr-the-dash holster and flicking off the safety. I wish Kahr made a double-stack pistol, that would have fit in with everything better. But barring that, I should have purchased a gun that was just point and shoot - not a gun that I had to flick the manual safety off of. I could have the B6P in the holster with the hammer down and the safety off, but I'm not a fan of the DA pull. But anyway - that my car gun.

I always carry a Rohrbaugh R9 with a Remington RM380 as backup - they are almost the same pistol they're so similar.

I sometimes "transport" an unloaded Kahr CM9. The trigger on the CM9 is very similar to the R9 and the manual of arms is basically the same. The R9 has second strike capability while the CM9 doesn't...

I found R9 to be proof that one can get very reliable gun with excellent trigger in a very small package. The gun is creation of a genious with heel mag release and no slide stop lever. It takes an expert to shoot that gun accurately though at 5m or less usually less great accuracy is not needed just two quick shots.

 

[Kleanbore]

It used to be thought that several repetitions using some different holster might be sufficient to familiarize a user. Then, it was recommended (by a manufacturer, or vendor) to perform at least 200 properly executed "draws" from a holster prior to using it on-duty. Then, I read where it was being recommended that a new user of a safety holster make at least 500 properly executed practice draws before using the holster for duty. Etc, etc ... and it can take a lot longer.

I've seen the occasional person try to have a new, personally-owned Level 3 holster approved for use for duty (my former agency permitted optional holsters, subject to approval by a designated person), but fail to demonstrate being able to use it within even the most generous time constraints in the current quals/training drills. Some folks could demonstrate they'd learned to use their optional choice after a couple of days ... or a couple of weeks ... or sometimes even longer.

Learning to use some particular method/system is one thing, but learning how to safely & properly repeatedly practice the successful use of it is yet another, and then ... there's the sufficiency of recurrent practice to allow someone to effectively retain not only familiarity with it, but the continued ability to safely, surely and smoothly use of it.

I remember reading one of many articles of studies of college level athletes (being an exercise enthusiast and martial artist), and how an interesting study resulted in the theory that a flawed, unsuccessful repetition of some critical coordinated movement might require at least 10 successful subsequent repetitions to bring the athlete back to where they'd been before the unsuccessful repetition.

Kind of like many other physical tasks may do, and which may be combined with (or affected by) other coordinated movements. It's often a situation where concise and effective performance of the movement really starts to become "second nature" after the proper repetition of a few thousand successful repetitions ... and then you can start to work on doing it under increasing stress.

Good information there, thoughtfully stated.

However, I have occasionally gone under timer with my favorite carry guns at CCW distances (7 to 10 yards) rotating frome one string to the next with very little noticeable degredation in hits or speed.

I am condident that I can grab any style* gun and be proficient at under 10 yards with vary little familiarization needed.

One thing about going to the range or training facility for training, practice, or recreation that is not conducive to realism in everyday carry is that it conditions us mentally for what we are about to do, including creating the expectation that we are going to shoot, and germane to this thread, creating an awareness of just which firearm we are going to shoot.

We are not afforded that little advantage at other times.

When we leave the house in the morning for our daily life, there is no such expectation. We have in mind how long it will take to get somewhere, how best to handle an interview or meeting, whether we would plan to stop for gas on the way home, what to pick up for dinner, and a dozen other things. If we do have to draw our firearm, the need will arise suddenly and unexpectedly, as a complete surprise.

It would not be realistic to expect that a concealed carrier who "alternates" carry guns will have any realization of just what gun he strapped on that morning when he is standing by the fuel pump at day's end and watching the gauge, while wondering what kind of traffic to expect on the expressway, when that chaotic, threatening surprise occurs. He did not head out planning to go shooting.

For those who carry the same firearm, or the same type of firearm (different size Glock, Officers' Frame vs Service 1911) the same way every day, the reaction is rote, automatic, and always identical.

There is no need to make oneself aware, however quickly it may normally take to do it, that the gun we have with us at the time has a frame mounted safety or does not, a DA/SA mechanism or a striker, and so on. That part of the reaction process is dispensed with.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

This is one of those things where I can tell you what I do without presuming to tell you what you should do.
I don't rotate, I carry a Glock 19, in a Galco Combat Master Holster right around 3:30ish. This might sound like a dumb example but my car is a Mitsubishi Gallant. I used to work for a company that had me drive either a Jeep Wrangler or a Ford Escape and I can't count the times I've been sitting in the Jeep reaching for where the cruise control on the Escape is or sitting in MY car trying to change radio stations by tapping a button on the steering column like I do on the Jeep. Every time it happened it reminded me why I only carry a Glock 19.

My life style doesn't dictate a lot of wardrobe changes, I'm pretty much always able to dress in a way that accommodates the 19. I don't have to switch up so I don't.

I used to be real rigid about rotating being a stupid idea but I see people (Fastbolt) with a lot more knowledge than I have doing it and they don't seem to have a problem with it BUT they also seem to get in a lot more range time than I do on the various platforms that they carry.

So for me I don't have the time or finances to master several different types of handguns or the need to change what I'm carrying based on wardrobe so I don't. I keep it simple and stick with the one gun.

 

[PabloJ]

[QUOTE="
My life style doesn't dictate a lot of wardrobe changes, I'm pretty much always able to dress in a way that accommodates the 19. I don't have to switch up so I don't.

[/QUOTE]

I admire your dedication to carrying such a large handgun and dressing every day to accommodate its concealment. I could never do that.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

[QUOTE="
My life style doesn't dictate a lot of wardrobe changes, I'm pretty much always able to dress in a way that accommodates the 19. I don't have to switch up so I don't.

I admire your dedication to carrying such a large handgun and dressing every day to accommodate its concealment. I could never do that.[/QUOTE]


I don't consider a Glock 19 to be a big gun. In fact, by definition, it's a compact. The first gun I carried regularly was a CZ75B. After that I switched to a S&W4006. In comparison I can just about forget the Glock is even there.

As for the wardrobe I wear Wrangler Cargo Pants and Red Head fishing shirts and in Colorado I blend right in.


This is my "Do not walk out the door without" list and it conceals easily