Egad! The gun shop disappeared

[dogtown tom]

..... I'm not sure the ATF will even license an individual to operate from their home anymore...

Sure they do.
Home based FFL's outnumber retail storefront FFL's and have for decades.
No ATF regulation has ever prohibited issuing a FFL to a dealer whose licensed premises is his home.

Some states won't allow that type of business to be run from a residence.

Very few state governments get involved with zoning, usually leaving that to local municipalities.
Plenty of cities and counties have zoning, HOA or deed restrictions that may prohibit a home based business, but most do not.

Trying to maintain a brick and mortar shop, selling a few new and used guns and mainly doing transfers doesn't seem like it would be profitable enough to even pay the rent. I think in order to do that one needs to have a very large store with lots of guns and gun related inventory. A store in my area went out of the gun business even with a large inventory.

Poor business practices put a lot of shops out of business.
I would never consider opening a gun shop unless I had a range with it.

In this state everyone who sells or buys a gun has to go thru an FFL unless the sale is to someone out of state. Then the local FFL can be cut out of the transaction. That mandatory background check isn't the case in most states.

With only a couple of very narrow exceptions, all interstate firearm shipments must be sent to a licensed dealer. The receiving dealer is required by FEDERAL law to have the customer complete a Form 4473 and NICS.

 

[dogtown tom]

Neither can I.

Yet, here in the Dallas suburbs, sellers like CDNN show two dozen FFLs working out of their houses doing transfers. I assume this is a night/weekend business to supplement their day-job because you can't pay the mortgage on a $300k house on $35 transfer fees. In fact one of the members has a signature line saying that is someone is looking for an FFL in the Plano, Frisco, McKinney area, they should PM him.

<-----Teacher by day, gun pusher by night.

Over the Independence Day Holiday, I returned to the little town where I finished growing up.

Where?

 

[ilbob]

I agree.

When I retire I'll have an annuity plus significant savings, so if I can find some space that isn't too expensive, I would love to open a gun shop/used book store and let my wife run the book store part.

generally an annuity is not a very good investment and has some serious high expense and fees associated with it that are often not real obvious. If you have not already spent the money on it, you might want to look real close before doing so. I mean REAL close. They can look attractive while screwing you big time. Not all of them are that way but a surprising high percentage of them are. especially those sold by so called financial advisers.

 

[herrwalther]

I get better deals at the mom and pop gun stores. If I want to see or hold a firearm I am interested in, I will go to the big box Bass Pro or Academy. But the best prices are always at the local shops. So whenever I have the cash to get something, that is where I get it. Two of my proffered shops went out of business in a rapid fashion as well. But neither had advertised going out of business sales. One became a tax preparation office, and the other became a quilt shop.

 

[Captcurt]

If there's a particular gun that I want, I'll just wait for the next large gun show (around here they occur every month or so). All the big dealers from around the state are at these shows, and, between them, you can find anything you want. The local gun shops have a limited inventory and high prices, and I've found that it's not worth my time to even bother with them.

The gun market is soon going to consist of the Internet, on the one hand, and large gun shows, on the other. Local dealers will just be transfer agents.

It is just the opposite here. I was at a show today and saw a Kimber 84M Hunter marked $950. My LGS has them for $750 and I bought one for $675 a couple of months ago. A Taurus 738 TCP was marked $225. I can get one wholesale for $144+shipping. There are only a couple of dealers at our local show that have their guns priced properly. Our local shops and Pawn shops are a lot cheaper than the majority of the dealers at the show, plus, if you have a problem you can take it back to them.

I am at the point now where the majority of my business is transfers and consignment sales online. I let my friends at the local shops handle the local sales.

 

[Wisco]

There's just so little reason to go anywhere in person to buy things these days that I can get cheaper online and without any hassle. I don't even buy dog food in person any longer...

Guns are different because you need an FFL, so if there's a gun I know I want, I'll just order it and have it sent to closest FFL or gunshop that is easy to deal with. There are some local FFLs and shops I can't stand long enough to even fill out paperwork...

I've thought about getting an FFL to do transfers for others and make some side money, but I've done the math and it isn't worth the excruciating pain of dealing with the general public!

Bless their little hearts, the small gunshops that can make it; they're dying out due to simple economics and a saturation of information to the consumer that allows someone to see the best price instantly.

 

[CoalTrain49]

With only a couple of very narrow exceptions, all interstate firearm shipments must be sent to a licensed dealer. The receiving dealer is required by FEDERAL law to have the customer complete a Form 4473 and NICS.

What states have a mandatory background check to ship a gun?

What states have a mandatory requirement for an FFL to ship a gun?

I was referring to WA state specifically.

In this state everyone who sells or buys a gun has to go thru an FFL unless the sale is to someone out of state. Then the local FFL can be cut out of the transaction.

Local being the FFL in WA. Maybe you didn't catch that.

 

[CapnMac]

Sure they do.
Home based FFL's outnumber retail storefront FFL's and have for decades.
No ATF regulation has ever prohibited issuing a FFL to a dealer whose licensed premises is his home.

The cities in that region are not much help, either. I simply cannot imagine ever getting City of Frisco to actually approve an LGS (Frisco PD is locally notorious about deciding that certain businesses do not "deserve" to be on the same street as each other). You'd have an easier time getting an AOB (Adult-oriented business) approved (and the one site the City set aside for that was recently made into a parking lot).
Plano is going to be another tough sell.
Allen would be a "maybe" as would The Colony.
Prosper, Pilot Point, Anna would be possible but would not be "local" to hardly anybody.

DFW remains a complicated place for LGS.

I'm in north Arlington, and call Euless Guns my "local"--mostly as they have been the right combination of things that makes a good LGS for me. Not perfect, but better than the rest.

 

[SteadyD]

Some gun shops deserve to go under. (Not saying that about the shop the OP is discussing). Lots of them are staffed by jerks that know half what they think they do, and are still charging prices that don't reflect the changing landscape in firearms sales.

There are a few shops that I still frequent because they offer exceptional customer service, which is paramount with the bargain rate prices to be found online. On the other hand, there are still plenty of shops with rude, unprofessional employees that used to get away with it prior to the age of online auction sites. They don't have my sympathy. If you can't match online prices, you have to make up for it with expertise and customer service.

 

[CoalTrain49]

The cities in that region are not much help, either. I simply cannot imagine ever getting City of Frisco to actually approve an LGS (Frisco PD is locally notorious about deciding that certain businesses do not "deserve" to be on the same street as each other). You'd have an easier time getting an AOB (Adult-oriented business) approved (and the one site the City set aside for that was recently made into a parking lot).
Plano is going to be another tough sell.
Allen would be a "maybe" as would The Colony.
Prosper, Pilot Point, Anna would be possible but would not be "local" to hardly anybody.

DFW remains a complicated place for LGS.

I'm in north Arlington, and call Euless Guns my "local"--mostly as they have been the right combination of things that makes a good LGS for me. Not perfect, but better than the rest.

I'm near Seattle. No home based FFL's approved in King county which takes in all of that metro area. I have an FFL who does business in his home within a mile of my house but I don't live in that county. Metro areas can be tough in a lot of states.

 

[entropy]

Over the Independence Day Holiday, I returned to the little town where I finished growing up. And as I turned the corner onto the square, I saw the LGS I had anticipated buying my next gun from was holding a going out of business sale!

By the time I arrived, all the guns, ammunition, and components were already gone. About all that was left were used combat boots, some MREs and a few odds and ends.

The owner had done a pretty good business "renting" rifles - by which I mean selling rifles and shotguns before the start of hunting season and then buying them back after hunting season was over. I know some guns had been bought, sold and repurchased by the same person many times over the years. Even though they were on the rack, everyone knew you didn't buy "Joe's gun" or "John's gun" because they would be along for it as soon as they got the money together. Of course if "Joe" or "John" got a felony conviction, people all but ran from the courthouse to buy "their" gun. I found out those guns had been "bought" by the pawn shop which was intending on continuing the "rental" tradition.

Still, the collapse of the last seller of reloading components and new guns in the entire county really affected me. Almost made me start to question whether there is any future for the LGS in rural America.

Must have been an interesting conversation of someone passing through stopped by and wanted to buy "John's gun".....I saw a gun my son recently owned in the rack at a local shop, I was tempted to buy it just to see his face next time he came over.....he admitted to selling it when he stopped by; I had given him a Rem 740 .308 for Xmas last year he traded it to his best friend for the Savage 11 .270 he sold.....

 

[Caldart]

Online, shipped, taxes paid at dros, ffl transfer fee, $700.

If I could get same gun within 10% ($770) from LGS I would do it. But my LGS has them for $850 or more, 20-25% more when all said and done. I can't handle that kind of premium especially when it's applied to all products.

As for atmosphere, one focus's on LEO/Ret-LEOs who get deals and the other focus's on the tactical crowd. I get less than enthusiastic customer service looking for wood stocks, bolt action or shotguns with barrels longer than 20".

But hey, if that business model keeps them open more power to them but my LGSs' have missed out on 7k worth of firearm and ammo sales.

I would have happily spent the extra $700 locally but no way could I just the extra $1600-$1700.

 

[dogtown tom]

)

What states have a mandatory background check to ship a gun?

Don't know, don't care as no such requirement under Federal law. (and I wasn't replying to what your state may require at YOUR end, but what is required at the RECEIPIENTS end.

What states have a mandatory requirement for an FFL to ship a gun?

Don't know, don't care as no such requirement under Federal law. (and I wasn't replying to what your state may require at YOUR end, but what is required at the RECEIPIENTS end).

I was referring to WA state specifically....Local being the FFL in WA. Maybe you didn't catch that .

Maybe you should see that I bolded what I was commenting on. Maybe you didn't catch that.

.....That mandatory background check isn't the case in most states.

 

[entropy]

The cities in that region are not much help, either. I simply cannot imagine ever getting City of Frisco to actually approve an LGS (Frisco PD is locally notorious about deciding that certain businesses do not "deserve" to be on the same street as each other). You'd have an easier time getting an AOB (Adult-oriented business) approved (and the one site the City set aside for that was recently made into a parking lot).
Plano is going to be another tough sell.
Allen would be a "maybe" as would The Colony.
Prosper, Pilot Point, Anna would be possible but would not be "local" to hardly anybody.

DFW remains a complicated place for LGS.

I'm in north Arlington, and call Euless Guns my "local"--mostly as they have been the right combination of things that makes a good LGS for me. Not perfect, but better than the rest.

There used to be a Gun Shop in Plano that had a range-is that no longer there? Yeah, in Frisco, I could see that being nigh impossible. I lived in McKinney and Frisco when I lived down there, and worked in Plano.

 

[dogtown tom]

The cities in that region are not much help, either. I simply cannot imagine ever getting City of Frisco to actually approve an LGS (Frisco PD is locally notorious about deciding that certain businesses do not "deserve" to be on the same street as each other). You'd have an easier time getting an AOB (Adult-oriented business) approved (and the one site the City set aside for that was recently made into a parking lot)..

Apparently you never heard of Frisco Gun Club.

Plano is going to be another tough sell.

Uh, no.
White Wing Weaponry, Riflegear, Gun Gear to Go and Mister Guns have all opened in Plano the last six years.
City of Plano doesn't get to decide if a gun store is okey dokey or not. They had zero say in my home based gun business.
I don't think you know very much about Collin County.

Allen would be a "maybe" as would The Colony.
Prosper, Pilot Point, Anna would be possible but would not be "local" to hardly anybody.

Um.......Prosper/Pilot Point/Anna/Frisco/McKinney are the fastest growing region in North Texas.

DFW remains a complicated place for LGS.

Not really.
It's not location as much as knowing how to run a business.

 

[dogtown tom]

There used to be a Gun Shop in Plano that had a range-is that no longer there? Yeah, in Frisco, I could see that being nigh impossible. I lived in McKinney and Frisco when I lived down there, and worked in Plano.

Bullet Trap is still open on Ave K.
"Nigh impossible"?..............see the impossible:http://www.friscogunclub.com/

 

[entropy]

Frisco sure has changed from when I lived there in '94 and '95.....nice gun club! Glad to hear the Bullet Trap is still open.

 

[Moparnut]

I support my locals. I know there are some deals to be had online, however, by the time I add s&h and the transfer fee, I can usually find it local for about the same price. So I just go local and feel better about doing it.

 

[CoalTrain49]

Not really.
It's not location as much as knowing how to run a business.

I think it may have something to do with location.

The median household income of Plano is about 60% higher than the national average.

Maybe that's why Frisco has a guntry club.

If you can't make it there, you can't make it anywhere.

 

[Hanzo581]

There is no fighting the progression of retail sales from brick and mortar to online. I mean you have Amazon delivering within 1-2hrs on a lot of things, then 2 days for other stuff. The wait time is rapidly reducing for pretty much all major online retailers. At the very least there are four needs that will always exist, the shooting range, gunsmiths, transfers and used guns. That's enough to keep a lot of places open but the stand alone shop with walls lined of overpriced new guns without a range is a dying breed.

 

[kozak6]

I'd like to support local shops, but I don't shoot enough or buy enough guns to make any difference.

Two local shops went out of business.

I moved, and the new local shop is less than a mile from my house. His prices were so absolutely outrageous I haven't been back since October.

 

[Atla]

I would certainly NOT want to operate an FFL out of my home.

While you may get a good ATF agent, you may also get an assmuppet that will make your life hell. Do you really want them coming in to your house?

 

[CoalTrain49]

I would certainly NOT want to operate an FFL out of my home.

While you may get a good ATF agent, you may also get an assmuppet that will make your life hell. Do you really want them coming in to your house?

It wouldn't be just the ATF snooping around. I really wouldn't want the general public coming to my house to do business. Although 99% would probably be fine there's going to be that 1% trying to find a way to transfer a firearm illegally. There's a good reason why zoning laws prohibit businesses in a residential neighborhood.

My neighbor has a business but all of his sales are shipped and there is no traffic other than UPS on our private road.

 

[CoalTrain49]

Maybe you should see that I bolded what I was commenting on. Maybe you didn't catch that.

Yeah, I caught it. It was out of context.

 

[dogtown tom]

I think it may have something to do with location.

The median household income of Plano is about 60% higher than the national average.

Maybe that's why Frisco has a guntry club.

If you can't make it there, you can't make it anywhere.

Tell that to White Wing Weaponry...........filed for bankruptcy last year. (and they had a fantastic location)